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Vapor Genie for the Masses

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Wave Rider

Wave Rider

Rising Star
Ok, my goal is simple: build a smoker/vaporizer that VERY MUCH compares to the Vapor Genie but at a fraction of the cost. I want all of you 'would be' (and professional) scientist and engineers throw in your two cents.

I have read much on this website praising the Vapor Genie as the absolute best way to ingest DMT. Unfortunately I, and many others, are in the position where cost is a factor. Surely the results of the Vapor Genie can be replicated with the right homemade device. I want this to be a work-thread devoted to the design of that device. This is not a thread to post your quirky new method of vaporizing, it is a thread to create a Vapor Genie substitute.

I am in the process of undertaking this task myself in the next few days to a week anyway, so I thought I could get input from the experienced. I am getting pretty tired of vaporizing it between layers of ash on my glass pot-pipe. It's stinking the thing up and it is not very efficient, I am ready for a dedicated device.

I will take all suggestions and give them thorough analysis. After we reach a consensus on this thread, hopefully within a week, I will create a design, purchase the necessary materials and construct it.

If we can get this thing to replicate the results of the Vapor Genie, it will benefit many aspiring spice enthusiasts. Input is especially desired from those who currently own a Vapor Genie. Perhaps they can participate in this experiment even further, by comparing the Vapor Genie with this soon-to-be (and less expensive) device in a side by side trial. Many spice smokers across the world will thank you.

Much like the "DMT for the masses" tek, I want this to be the "Vapor Genie for the masses".

In order for it to qualify as a practical substitute, here are the parameters of this experiment so that we are all on the same wavelength:

1) *Must replicate the results of the Vapor Genie within plus/minus 5%
2) Must cost less than $20 total for all materials
3) Must be made from materials that one can easily get at the local headshop/hardware/supermarket store
4) Must be portable and pocket friendly
5) Must be feasible and practical to use and to construct [no specialized skills required (ie welding,glassblowing)]
6) Must not be fragile
7) Would be a plus if it were aesthetically pleasing. Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it has to be ugly.

*Results will be measured in potency, taste, smoothness, speed of onset, breakthrough and overall experience.

These seem like reasonable parameters to me, as the cost of pipe-type making materials are not all that expensive. Parts such as bowl pieces, hoses, tubes, screens, brill-o, mouthpieces, etc... are all in the $.50 - $3.00 range, but please don't limit your thinking to those aforementioned materials. Thinking outside the box is welcome and encouraged. Also, I thought $20 was about right for a top limit as most folks can afford to go out and drop $17.88 on materials, but not necessarily be able to drop $100.00 for the real deal (or $55.00 for the cheap one). For some, that is a deep investment for a casual spice habit, but that doesn't mean that they can't get very close to the results of the proper pipe. If it were to cost more than $20, then you may as well go out and buy the real thing and if it is to meet my expectations of being a Vapor Genie substitute, then it should be aesthetically pleasing and fit into my pocket too, just like the VG. You know, not just a bunch of brass pipe fittings all threaded together. Yuck. It should be a well thought out design and it should live up to a certain standard.

I think it can be done.

Your suggestions?






(if you build it, they will come)
 
What makes the VG/GVG special is the ceramic diffuser. The diffuser allows hot gasses from a flame to mix with cooler air to produce a hot stream of air in the VG/GVG chamber that can be adjusted (by moving flame up/down and/or drawing air more/less forcefully) to an ideal temperature for vaporizing spice. I’ve done a bit of research, and determined that the ceramic diffuser is actually a disc of silicon carbide foam.

Silicon carbide foam is used industrially primarily as a filter for molten metals and as a filter for very hot gasses. It is made in a variety of pore sizes, and the pore size is expressed in “pores per inch” (PPI). I think the VG/GVG foam has (by industrial standards) a fairly fine pore size.

Here’s a link to an industrial supplier of silicon carbide foam. There also seem to be several Chinese foam manufacturers. The problem is that, as far as I know, silicon carbide foam is not available to retail consumers. It is an industrial product and generally sold in large quantities and sizes.

I have no idea how easy it is to cut/machine silicon carbide foam to a particular shape, but it might be very difficult (solid silicon carbide is almost as hard as diamond). My guess is that the Vapor Genie folks either have an industrial supplier that supplies the foam to their specifications, or that they buy larger pieces intended for industrial applications and machine it themselves.

I can’t think of any readily available product that has all of the positive characteristics of silicon carbide foam.


edit: As you can no doubt tell, I've thought about this idea already! :)
 
I commend you on your effort! I hope you are successful. I'm sure the ceramic filter of the gvg is not the be all, end all of vaping spice. The idea in this thread looks really good Custom DMT pipe. - First steps in Hyperspace - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus The idea there is to have a thicker glass at the bottom of a typical glass pipe (which work excellent on their own). The one flaw of the regular glass pipe is they may have a tendency to overheat too quickly, so the thicker glass would prevent that from happening, perhaps just as well as the ceramic filter.... and without the need for screens and extra parts. I think it would be good to have a pipe that has a removable bowl, so it can be disassembled and does not look like a smoking device once taken apart.

Have you thought about selling, "The Machine"?
 
To me, it seems that this same concept of the ceramic filter can be applied to any heat resistant, non toxic, porous / high-surface-area, slow heating, fast cooling material.

A few come to mind: carbon filters, meerschaum and different ceramic filters, such as water filters. Maybe even chalk might be worth a closer look due to it's super-inexpensive status. Though, I don't know what high temperatures will do to it. I wonder how hot it has to be to vaporize the spice a centimeter (or less) below it and what else will happen at that temperature?

Here is a link to a carbon foam filter that can withstand temps up to 600 F if I am reading correctly; it costs 8 bucks. Carbon Foam

Anybody know anything about heat and materials?
 
I've been thinking about this, and it should be fairly simple to get something similar to the GVG. Got 2 ideas currently.

Idea 1
1.a)Basically take a regular GONG stem diffuser like this: iOffer could probably even find them cheaper.

1.b)I also just found this Redirect Notice looks like it's going for around $20. Looks near identical to the GVG!

1.c)Get a vapobowl http://www.azarius.net/headshop/vaporizers/portable_vaporizers/vapobowl/ either glass or metal, not that much money. 15€ for glass and 7.50€ for metal.

1.d) Alternatively one could get something like this Redirect Notice maybe a heat element would fit in with some tweaking. There are literally hundreds of possibilities and similar pieces, just got to find the right combination.

Put it all together, jam in some steel mesh for a carrier and you've basically got a GVG for around $30. Done, Finished, happy traveling!:d

Here's my second idea, although it's much more complicated with some care and effort could probably replicate the GVG very well.

Idea 2
2.If you want to get real creative, one could buy a 18.8mm gong plug http://www.bong-shop.biz/article/00790/Blind-Plug-188-mm-ground-joint.xhtml for 4€ and drill your own hole with special drill bits.
Then if you want to go ALL OUT; I'm sure with a little googling one could find a ceramic element or other heat source that would fit into the freshly drilled hole and have a near replica GVG at less than half the cost! A little extra work though for the latter, and I'm sure the first example would be more than suitable for our needs.

What do you think about that? I may give it a try when I have some extra cash.

Its somewhat similar to that pipe Apoc linked, but that seems more like a well made oil burner. I've heard oil burners aren't the best for spice as it tends to run away from the heat. The vapobowl with steel mesh would contain the spice in one spot, and if you took the DIY drill bit route, I'm confident one could nearly replicate the GVG.

Edit: with more searching, this would be a better alternative to either the vapobowl or a DIY drill plug. Redirect Notice Heat the tiny part to draw hot air through the chamber which would be loaded with mesh, attached to the sherlock/gvg style piece.
 
That vapo-bowl looks interesting. Maybe one could possibly put a non heat-conductive material, such as ceramic or carbon foam, in place of the screen on top where the flame enters. I am gonna check out my local headshop tomorrow, to see what they have. I may also try a few tests with chalk.
 
Sorry to post again i'm getting a little excited lol. I think I found the perfect solution.

aqualabtechnologies.com

Glass Accessories for Bongs and Water Pipes

Dive into Aqua Lab Technologies Glass Accessories for Bongs. Elevate your smoke sesh with top-quality bowls, from diffused downstems to protective cases.
aqualabtechnologies.com aqualabtechnologies.com
If I'm not mistaken, that's an adapter and already has a hole going through it. Add a ceramic filter on top and it's perfect!

That with this Redirect Notice and a little DIY one could make a GVG at home! now all we need is a source for tiny ceramic filters.
I wonder if chipping off a piece from an old hotplate and shaping it down would work? Any danger associated with that? Ceramic is supposed to be inert correct?
 
That's exactly what I was looking for, hopefully it's not treated in any nasty chemicals. Seeing as its for aquariums it probably has to be inert. Great find! We're one step closer to a cheap GVG.

I'll be looking around my area sometime soon for the GONG pieces, but I have no objection to ordering them online. I'm really considering this.:)
 
I would imagine that you could go to a pet store and find them there.

I was thinking that I could cut them vertically, into semi-cylinders and file them into dome shaped discs to fit the pipe.

With a little modification you could get a good seal and force the hot air through the ceramic, following the same principles of vaporization that the VG uses.
 
If you take a look at the specification brochure for silicon carbide foam, you’ll see that the maximum continuous use temperature and the oxidation resistance temperature are both 2200ºC. That’s an extremely high temperature – much higher than butane torch flames (which I think are in the 1100-1700ºC range).

The carbon foam would burn up as soon as a butane torch flame came into contact with it.

The aquarium filters you linked aren’t the right shape and are probably not porous enough to easily and smoothly draw air through them fast enough. Many ceramic materials are porous and will allow passage of air and water, but that doesn’t mean you can easily pull air through them as you do with a ceramic foam.

If you can find a silicon carbide foam disc of the right size, shape, and pore density, then building a GVG equivalent would be easy. You may have noticed that Vapor Genie sells replacement top pieces (with ceramic disc), but only to those who have already purchased a GVG. They restrict distribution of those discs for obvious reasons!
 
Take a look at this http://www.soilmoisture.com/0600.html they sell porous ceramic plates from all different sizes and air flows.
I have no clue what would be ideal but they have different models listing air flow ranging from 0.5 - 15 Bar.
No clue what that means, gibran maybe your knowledgeable in this?
The 0.5-1 bar range is listed as HR then the 2-15 bar range is listed as std. I don't know what any of this means though so at them moment it's useless to me.
They mention they'll take special request orders as well, if this is what we're looking for, I think we just found a solution for the filter problem.

Edit: Did a little more research. http://www.soilmoisture.com/ceramics.html if you scroll down to where they talk about "UNDERSTANDING POROUS CERAMICS" They give a better list about air flow and pore diameter. It looks like 0.5 Bar will be best. it has a pore diameter of 6µm.
I think that's fairly large but I'm not certain. The flow through this is listed at 180 (ml/hr/cm2/14.7 psi)
I don't understand a lot of this maybe someone more knowledgeable can say if this is suitable?
 
I see your point gilbran. I want to get this part right. Silicon carbide foam is a cool material. It's just so hard to find unless you want 1000 of them. I surfed the web for three hours and all I could find were wholesalers. You would think I would be able to find one on ebay or amazon.

The ceramic plates are cool too, but again the problem may be getting just one of them. Plus, I found some other ceramic plates on amazon in the hundred+ dollar range. May as well just get the VG for that.

It is disappointing that I cannot find silicon carbide foam. I will expand my search and think outside the box. I want to get this right. The filter seems like the key to replicating the VG. I am looking most closely at that.

In the mean time, I will play around with a few materials to see if I can come close.
 
A 6um pore size is very small (about 1/40th of a hair diameter). The GVG SiC disc has pores about 2 or 3 per mm (about 60 per inch). That's about 400um pore size. The other thing, the density of the GVG SiC foam seems very low. The foam is mostly air. The foam looks like it's made of lots of cris-crossing network of SiC 'wires'. This must be how it allows such good air-flow.

I've seen Alumina ceramic foam like this before. The company Coors makes ceramic filters to "cold filter" their beer and they sell this material. I think Alumina ceramic would be fine (it's a tough material) but silicon carbide is a very tough inert material and probably better. For either material, it's probably low cost if you bought a lot of it but it's not exactly a household item.

Lastly I'll just say, the GVG is a very clever device. I can't afford to throw $100 to the wind but these people actually did invent a pretty cool device and I think it's good to try to support their innovation if at all possible. What they sell is a pretty nice product. (Now it sounds like I work for them but I don't. I just think it's pretty cool for someone to come up with a new and good idea and then make a few dollars.)
 
I don't want to bash the VG, I just want a good way to smoke spice for less.

I have contacted a friend of mine who is an engineer and is sympathetic to our cause 😉. He stated that he would contact his old materials professor about silicon carbide, replacements for it, and places to get it. He also knows much about ceramics. Mr. S. is on the case.
 
WR, I get it. If you can take their ideas and improve or provide easier availability, I think that's fine. I'll even try to help if I can. Alumina is probably a reasonable substitute for SiC. Alumina is saphire in a ceramic form and is more common and cheaper than silicon carbide. Now....where to find small pieces of Alumina foam?
 
How about this:

Titanium spoon stuck in a wooden inscense burner

Heat it to red and glowing, wait a moment to cool

Place spice on spoon and it will imediately vaporize.

Either chase it with a glass downstem or maybe cover the spoon with a freezing glass cup and I think then you can "drink" it

..this is how I used to smoke my budder before I got the vapor swing. It worked very well! I may try it. Though I have a gvg so I might not.

Edit: under $10 if you have the downstem already. Rei has 7$ titanium spoons
 
Great ideas, great research happening here! Thank you and keep it up...
Pumice stone does sound worthy of more research.
Thanks again... keep us posted!
L
 
I will have to look into pumice.

I must say, VG makes a damn fine product. Hard to replicate. They did their homework. I'll probably buy one when I get the money. In the mean time, I am having fun with my little project. I hope I succeed.

I have been failing a lot today.

Here are some of the things that don't work as the filter: I managed to get a fluffy disc shaped grinding pad that was made from silicon carbide. Apparently that's not all it's made with, I held a flame to it and it went up like a birthday cake. (note: did not smoke, open flame away from face) I got a piece of fiberglass, after all, it is just glass spun into fibers right? Wrong. It melted. That's aside from the potential health threats involved with fiberglass. It's nontoxic though. Then I thought I would make a little 'cartridge' to fit into the top of my pipe. I made it cylindrical with a screen at both ends with sea salt in the middle and thick aluminum for the outer shell. Fail. I almost thought this one was going to work. I could suck the heat through it freely, easily and uniformly. It melted the spice, but I couldn't get it hot enough to vaporize. Though, I like the cartridge idea. Maybe I'll try again with a different material.

These seemed like logical first tests; tests conducted with no real money, equipment or proper materials and only a vague understanding of thermodynamics, materials, and vaporization. No wonder it didn't work...I mean really. The final product (I hope) will be more refined and organized than this shoddy garbage. There WILL be a final product, eventually, (because I'm getting a new spice pipe) but it is going to be hard to get it to operate under the same principles as the VG, let alone compare to it. Like I said, those guys know what they are doing. I don't. I am working on it though. Honestly, I don't have anything better to do with my time.

That filter piece is what makes the VG unique. Unless I'm wrong, all it does is diffuse the heat evenly throughout the inside of the pipe, and keeps the heat under 375 F, never allowing it to get above 375 F, but it also gets to 375 quickly. Silicon carbide does a hell of a job at this, but if these conditions can be met through other means, then... you have a homemade VG. The new question is: What ELSE can diffuse heat evenly and keep it under 375F, but reach 375 relatively quickly? And be easily obtained, inexpensive and non toxic. And on and on and on. Am I forgetting anything?

Thanks for the ideas so far, keep throwing them out there.
 
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