What to do with my teen?

[camdemonium]

Listen to ragabr if you think you're into the horror it's because you've never been so twisted that you literally feel the entire world telling you to die, so much so that you don't even recognize your best friends, you just see in their eyes the burning desire for you to hurry the fuck up and die so it will all be over and the cop's wont bust in and kill everyone. That's FEAR as cannot be seen otherwise, and i doubt it is what you want. Don't let me discourage you though, but if something like that happens you will never forget that feeling.

 

[Infundibulum]

"I am not trying at all to compare a supposed age limit for dmt trying to the delusions of a bunch of middle-aged men"

Oh. In that case I fail to see the point of your post. Sorry to flame, but alleyezonme was bringing forth a valid perspective supported by personal experience. There's no need to ridicule that with petty demagogy. Of course we should not promote "minors taking drugs" in general, but there's more to this than "how it might look" - it's about answering a very interesting and pertinent question in a real context. You say there are set rules. Do you mean laws? Or do you mean that your opinion rules?

Yes, my opinion rules and what is more, it rules more than FE's opinion. And it is also more demagogic.

On a more serious note, I said that I am not trying to compare because this is not a fair comparison. Things are certainly far more complex than that. But it was a demonstration of an analogous situation (with a splash of cute demagogics and humour) to show that age limits and set rules do exist.

Re-thinking about the comparison, I would now choose a better one; 17-year old girl smoking dmt versus 14-year old boy being seduced by NAMBLAs. A 14 year old boy is sexually active, can make conscious sexual choices and choose sexual partners just as a 17-year old is mentally prepared for a dmt trip.

I personally would feel uncomfortable to see a homosexual couple comprising of a 50 year old man and a 14 year old boy. I'd imagine that something fishy is going on and analogously (and onto the topic) I'd thing that a 17 year old girl smoking dmt is equally strange, unusual, and raising concerns.

 

[Shayku]

I guess I'm just not big on analogies in this kind of context. Just changing the age makes it blurry. And what's up the homosexuality idea? What if it was a heterosexual couple? In that sense, I think you illustrate precisely that there are no "set rules". And in this case, we can only try to inform the curious parent and daughter and let them decide. Yes, it's weird that a parent would allow this to happen, and concerns are indeed being raised, starting with the parent himself, but think I've done things that were worse for my mind and body at that age, though they were also far more normal.

 

[MooshyPeaches]

(>'.')> --- l0l - - - _██_
.........................(ಠ_ృ)

 

[Global]

I don't feel like arguing the age debate one way or another right now, but as a side note, in the event of seeing a much older man with a much younger boy, I think the appropriate response is to let that work itself out if you're not one of their family members. I think that's where a lot of trouble stems from in the United States regarding issues like gay marriage and abortion: a bunch of people who like to tell others how to live their lives; live your own for once

 

[Ice House]

I don't feel like arguing the age debate one way or another right now, but as a side note, in the event of seeing a much older man with a much younger boy, I think the appropriate response is to let that work itself out if you're not one of their family members. I think that's where a lot of trouble stems from in the United States regarding issues like gay marriage and abortion: a bunch of people who like to tell others how to live their lives; live your own for once

LOL, are you serious? The example Infundibulum gave was

a 50 year old man and a 14 year old boy

That isnt just trouble in the US, thats trouble anywhere. That is predatory sexual activity 99 times out of a hundred.

That isnt an issue with gay marriage or abortion.

A 50 year old man and a 14 year old boy?

that is wrong no matter how you debate it.


I am not homophobic I work with homosexuals my 22 year old son is a homosexual I have a brother that is, homosexual, I garauntee you both of them would see the problem with a 50 year old man and a 14 year old boy.

sorry for jumping in and commenting when I havent read the entire thread, but.....

a 50 year old man and a 14 year old boy

gobalswg said

I think the appropriate response is to let that work itself out

really?

REALLY?

I'm not comfortable with the 17 year old girl doing DMT either.

but a 50 year old man and a 14 year old boy.

lol,

OK

to each his own.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

yea...what he said. I mean...I get that people like to be free of rules and laws and have the world be a magical candyland...but really????? :roll:

 

[acolon_5]

For a person that is 3 months away from "adulthood" I don't see issue with learning, studying, and preparing for the ultimate journey one can have. Waiting until one can legally deal with our unjust laws is another matter. Being "ready" is irrelevant. No one is ready, be they 17, 21, 33, or 60 for what DMT can show. Aya is given to children as young as 8 in Peru and Brazil. Scream if you want, that is their culture and I will not be the one to criticize it.

I disagree about aya, mushrooms, cannabis, etc before DMT. 2-4 hours can be very hard on the body and mind. A 6 hr mushroom journey or a 12 hour mescaline ceremony are also quite a bit. Cannabis can be psychologically addictive.

5 minutes of mind blowing, god-realization is a bit more manageable. "It will be over soon"...is an easy enough mantram to say when things get too intense.

DMT is and always will be my anti-drug. The more you use it the less you want to use anything (including more dmt). At least that has been the experience of all that use DMT with me, as well as my own experience.

 

[Imp]

Thank-you everyone, looks like i have alot of reading to do. Ill make sure to show hew your responses and hope that she changes her mind. I was raised christian with very firm anti-drug values, however recently, my attitude has started to change. I dunno if I want to let my daughter try cannabis seeing as it is illegal, however I no longer have anything against the people who chose to indulge in it.

The trip reports seem down right terrifying, I don't know why anyone would want to experience ''it was the feeling of having every atom ripped apart in intense torture that seemed to have lasted eternity''

Why do you guys do dmt?

I worry about smoking things because i am concerned for my cardiovascular health, but that is my only negative perception
of dmt.
I do dmt because it helps me control my thoughts, feelings. After an intense hallucinogenic ( but otherwise safe ) experience, things in life like work and social problems seem trivial, and i am able to understand them more objectively.
I personally have a friend who had very low self esteem. Then she tried ayahuasca, and that experience taught her that everything is inherently perfect the way it is.
Furthermore, terrifying is not a bad thing. Unless you understand the need for knowledge and new experience, you may not understand that having every atom ripped apart from you is an experience you can learn from. There is no such thing as a "bad" trip.

 

[jamie]

"I disagree about aya, mushrooms, cannabis, etc before DMT. 2-4 hours can be very hard on the body and mind. A 6 hr mushroom journey or a 12 hour mescaline ceremony are also quite a bit. Cannabis can be psychologically addictive."

Yeah I feel the same way. DMT would be a great first psychedelic IMO.

 

[coz42]

I'm only 21, just whipping my way through the cosmos.. Have a couple U.S. patents I've acquired over the past couple months I'm very proud of, including my experimental use of DMT since I was 18 is certainly not something you just dive right into because everyone with the right mind to explore intent over contention have been doing so for the past o', thousands of years. Good to hear an open mind however.. Certain people would not know what to do. Off to rehab, Sally-Sue!

Consider researching ayahusaca with your daughter. You may be the pedagogue she has always needed. This allegory is very much intended

 

[Toastus]

I don't know if anyone has brought up this point yet, but I wanted to bring it up. DMT is endogenous, produced in your Pineal Gland, is it not? Which means, on some level, that it's even safer for you than Psilocin or Mescaline, right?

 

[SnozzleBerry]

...DMT is endogenous, produced in your Pineal Gland, is it not...

DMT is endogenous, it is not produced in the pineal gland as it is missing INMT, a crucial methyl transferase required for the endogenous synthesis of DMT.

 

[Toastus]

...DMT is endogenous, produced in your Pineal Gland, is it not...

DMT is endogenous, it is not produced in the pineal gland as it is missing INMT, a crucial methyl transferase required for the endogenous synthesis of DMT.

No, the Pineal Gland has INMT in it, but the action of INMT is blocked there by something else that's only found in the Pineal Gland.

I got this from the Tryptamine Carriers FAQ at Deoxy.org:

Synthesis of DMT Derivatives
Tryptamine derivatives and beta-Carbolines have been detected as endogenous metabolites in mammals, including humans. Methyl transferases that catalyze the synthesis of tryptamines, including DMT, 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenine, are found in human lung, brain, cerebrospinal fluid, liver and heart (McKenna & Towers 1984). In the pineal gland MAO is the primary inactivation pathway of serotonin, a neurotransmitter synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan. If MAO is blocked by harmine, harmaline or other MAO inhibitors serotonin can be converted by the methyltransferase enzymes HIOMT and INMT into psychedelic tryptamines (serotonin --(HIOMT)--> 5-MeO-trypt. --(2*INMT)--> 5-MeO-DMT).

...

A potent inhibitor of INMT, which is a necessary enzyme for the synthesis of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, is found in particularly high concentrations in the pineal gland. A bypassing or inhibition of the synthesis of this inhibitor might be responsible for trances and other psychedelic states achieved "without drugs" (Strassman 1990). See Strassman's article for more info and speculation about the pineal gland.

It's still produced in the brain and in other areas of the body, but just not in the Pineal Gland. But, at certain times, like during meditation or extreme stress, the factor that inhibits INMT can be overridden, allowing INMT to do its job and make DMT, bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT.

So, although the Pineal Gland doesn't normally produce DMT, we aren't talking about its normal function. In the circumstances of near death experiences or meditation or other times, it's produced by the Pineal Gland. So it is endogenous in the brain (we already knew that though) and therefore there's no biological reason to say it's unsafe (we knew that though too, just making a point).

 

[SnozzleBerry]

...DMT is endogenous, produced in your Pineal Gland, is it not...

DMT is endogenous, it is not produced in the pineal gland as it is missing INMT, a crucial methyl transferase required for the endogenous synthesis of DMT.

No, the Pineal Gland has INMT in it, but the action of INMT is blocked there by something else that's only found in the Pineal Gland.

I got this from the Tryptamine Carriers FAQ at Deoxy.org:

Synthesis of DMT Derivatives
Tryptamine derivatives and beta-Carbolines have been detected as endogenous metabolites in mammals, including humans. Methyl transferases that catalyze the synthesis of tryptamines, including DMT, 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenine, are found in human lung, brain, cerebrospinal fluid, liver and heart (McKenna & Towers 1984). In the pineal gland MAO is the primary inactivation pathway of serotonin, a neurotransmitter synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan. If MAO is blocked by harmine, harmaline or other MAO inhibitors serotonin can be converted by the methyltransferase enzymes HIOMT and INMT into psychedelic tryptamines (serotonin --(HIOMT)--> 5-MeO-trypt. --(2*INMT)--> 5-MeO-DMT).

...

A potent inhibitor of INMT, which is a necessary enzyme for the synthesis of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, is found in particularly high concentrations in the pineal gland. A bypassing or inhibition of the synthesis of this inhibitor might be responsible for trances and other psychedelic states achieved "without drugs" (Strassman 1990). See Strassman's article for more info and speculation about the pineal gland.

It's still produced in the brain and in other areas of the body, but just not in the Pineal Gland. But, at certain times, like during meditation or extreme stress, the factor that inhibits INMT can be overridden, allowing INMT to do its job and make DMT, bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT.

So, although the Pineal Gland doesn't normally produce DMT, we aren't talking about its normal function. In the circumstances of near death experiences or meditation or other times, it's produced by the Pineal Gland. So it is endogenous in the brain (we already knew that though) and therefore there's no biological reason to say it's unsafe (we knew that though too, just making a point).

No...INMT is NOT found in the pineal gland.

Endogenous Psychoactive Tryptamines Reconsidered - An Anxiolytic Role For Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) | PDF | Hallucinogen | Serotonin


"A contemporary investigation, utilizing modern
genetic and structural techniques, has provided a
more detailed analysis of INMT, but does not provide
a complete story. In two studies, Thompson
et al. [35,36], cloned, expressed, localized, and
characterized the activities of rabbit and human
INMT. Using Northern blot analysis, they found rabbit
INMT transcripts expressed heavily in the lung,
moderately in the liver, and weakly in the brain. Human
INMT was expressed in the lung, thyroid, adrenal
gland, heart, muscle, and spinal cord, but not in
the brain. The authors observe high Km values (an
order of magnitude higher than in previous studies
[33,34]) of TYP for recombinant human INMT and
an absence of INMT mRNA transcripts in the brain.
Thus, Thompson et al. conclude that the production
of DMT in humans is not physiologically significant.
Their conclusion places much weight on the significance
of observed Km values for recombinant human
INMT and does not take into account several
additional genetic and enzymatic concerns."

Here, take a look at this old discussion. You are working from sources that are out of date (Strassman's theory is no longer valid) or less than reputable (Deoxy is not a legitimate, scientific source). Posts #28 - #34 are the most relevant to this discussion. Happy reading Mythbusters of D M T - Coalition for Entheogenic Liberty - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Ginkgo]

I don't have much to add as I feel the responses in this thread have with very few exceptions been extraordinary. I do, however, want to thank Melanie's dad for being such a open-minded person with great care and love for his daughter.

Your approach to this, sir, shows the way for other parents - trying to understand what your child wants and why, asking the appropriate people for guidance, and then sitting down to have a chat with your child. Not many people have the courage to act in this way, although it is the only sensible one. I thank you from the bottom of my heart!

I also want to thank Melanie for being so understanding and mature when all is said and done. I think you are correct that even a 14 year old would think that he or she is ready. But honestly, you can't be prepared for this experience, so a bare minimum must be to be an adult, or at least legally an adult.

I think that when you are 18, you could - with your father's permission - try a medium dose mushrooms (~2-3 g cubensis). Smoked/vaporized DMT really is a truly otherwordly experience that you can't ever be really ready for. I know some disagree with me here, but personally I think that trying another psychedelic than DMT first is the best way to go. By trying mushrooms first, you can get a sense of what the experience is like without really jumping in. Try to dip your toes in the water before diving in.

I also want to thank this great community for such a great number of wonderful posts with excellent guidance. You guys and girls rock!

With love, EG

 

[Infundibulum]

It's still produced in the brain and in other areas of the body, but just not in the Pineal Gland. But, at certain times, like during meditation or extreme stress, the factor that inhibits INMT can be overridden, allowing INMT to do its job and make DMT, bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT.

Oh dear, all these well proven facts totally crush my being. I really like this elusive "factor" ad hoc refuge of those who propagate these theories-turned-facts.

 

[Toastus]

...DMT is endogenous, produced in your Pineal Gland, is it not...

DMT is endogenous, it is not produced in the pineal gland as it is missing INMT, a crucial methyl transferase required for the endogenous synthesis of DMT.

No, the Pineal Gland has INMT in it, but the action of INMT is blocked there by something else that's only found in the Pineal Gland.

I got this from the Tryptamine Carriers FAQ at Deoxy.org:

Synthesis of DMT Derivatives
Tryptamine derivatives and beta-Carbolines have been detected as endogenous metabolites in mammals, including humans. Methyl transferases that catalyze the synthesis of tryptamines, including DMT, 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenine, are found in human lung, brain, cerebrospinal fluid, liver and heart (McKenna & Towers 1984). In the pineal gland MAO is the primary inactivation pathway of serotonin, a neurotransmitter synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan. If MAO is blocked by harmine, harmaline or other MAO inhibitors serotonin can be converted by the methyltransferase enzymes HIOMT and INMT into psychedelic tryptamines (serotonin --(HIOMT)--> 5-MeO-trypt. --(2*INMT)--> 5-MeO-DMT).

...

A potent inhibitor of INMT, which is a necessary enzyme for the synthesis of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, is found in particularly high concentrations in the pineal gland. A bypassing or inhibition of the synthesis of this inhibitor might be responsible for trances and other psychedelic states achieved "without drugs" (Strassman 1990). See Strassman's article for more info and speculation about the pineal gland.

It's still produced in the brain and in other areas of the body, but just not in the Pineal Gland. But, at certain times, like during meditation or extreme stress, the factor that inhibits INMT can be overridden, allowing INMT to do its job and make DMT, bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT.

So, although the Pineal Gland doesn't normally produce DMT, we aren't talking about its normal function. In the circumstances of near death experiences or meditation or other times, it's produced by the Pineal Gland. So it is endogenous in the brain (we already knew that though) and therefore there's no biological reason to say it's unsafe (we knew that though too, just making a point).

No...INMT is NOT found in the pineal gland.

Endogenous Psychoactive Tryptamines Reconsidered - An Anxiolytic Role For Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) | PDF | Hallucinogen | Serotonin


"A contemporary investigation, utilizing modern
genetic and structural techniques, has provided a
more detailed analysis of INMT, but does not provide
a complete story. In two studies, Thompson
et al. [35,36], cloned, expressed, localized, and
characterized the activities of rabbit and human
INMT. Using Northern blot analysis, they found rabbit
INMT transcripts expressed heavily in the lung,
moderately in the liver, and weakly in the brain. Human
INMT was expressed in the lung, thyroid, adrenal
gland, heart, muscle, and spinal cord, but not in
the brain. The authors observe high Km values (an
order of magnitude higher than in previous studies
[33,34]) of TYP for recombinant human INMT and
an absence of INMT mRNA transcripts in the brain.
Thus, Thompson et al. conclude that the production
of DMT in humans is not physiologically significant.
Their conclusion places much weight on the significance
of observed Km values for recombinant human
INMT and does not take into account several
additional genetic and enzymatic concerns."

Here, take a look at this old discussion. You are working from sources that are out of date (Strassman's theory is no longer valid) or less than reputable (Deoxy is not a legitimate, scientific source). Posts #28 - #34 are the most relevant to this discussion. Happy reading Mythbusters of D M T - Coalition for Entheogenic Liberty - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Crap, you're right.
I wanna talk about this more, but I don't wanna run this thread off topic, so I'll start another thread about it.

 

[endlessness]

Why do you guys do dmt?

Why go DMT? - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Chupang]

Evem if she is ready i would advise against taking this substance at 17, the only reason i say this is because of the repercussions it could have on her social life, opening those sectors of the mind so young and being around the average 17 year old there could be some troubles.