Without a Shaman

[Grizzly Adams]

I just got done reading 'The AYAHUASCA Test Pilots Handbook' by Chris Kilhan.

He advocates the use of a trained Shaman. While I believe firmly that for some people, they should not try Ayahuscsa without one. But I also carry the conviction that many of us can be our own Shaman.

So, my question is, has anyone written book about Ayahuasca that covers the aspects for the solo journeyer?

 

[dreamer042]

As far as one specific book I'd suggest the Open Hyperspace Traveler as an excellent guidebook for the solo journeyer. Though, really the Nexus itself is the best resource I know of for exactly this kind of guidance.

We don't all have access to authentic, experienced, trustworthy practitioners and wading through the shysters and charlatans is truly dangerous business. These days most of us have access to the internet however, and via that medium to thousands of others doing this kind of work. This makes for a truly unprecedented amount of knowledge, wisdom, and experience available at our fingertips.

Trust in yourself.

Trust the medicine.

Trust your path.

❤

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

The shaman is unnecessary, imo. The indigenous people of the Amazon may have discovered the specific preparation we call Ayahuasca, but the interaction of MAOIs, DMT, and our bodies is not restricted to any one culture. Any human being, from anywhere in the world, can take that combination of molecules, and have a powerful, visionary experience. To suggest that it is only appropriate, or useful, when restricted to a culture that, for all intents and purposes, just got lucky seems very narrow minded to me.

Now, given the nature of the substance, you probably want a sitter, and one who understands the inner workings of the experience, and a shaman can definitely fill that role, but all the extra stuff, the dogmas and what-not, are simply extraneous.

Blessings
~ND

 

[jamie]

I guess maybe I am not interested in shamanism, so I don't need a shaman.

Might be useful to ask, do I need a siberian if I want to do shamanism?

Chris Kilhan, is just an ayahuasca pop personality. What he suggests, is of little interest to myself and I personally don't resonate with much of what he says to begin with.

I don't get whats so special about ayahuasca compared to other psychedelics anyway? Mushrooms are just as powerful(if not more IME). People have been taking them alone in the west for over 40 years.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I suppose I could have been more specific with my question.

I know that I can be my own Shaman. I don't need one, yet. Hopefully, I never will.

What I was looking for was more along the lines of a book that covers Set and Setting in detail for the solo journeyer. .



I highly value the internet for all the information there is to be found and how small is has made our world though the sharing of information, but I just like to have a book in my hands. Something I can highlight, draw in the margins, etc. I can take a book ALOT of places I cannot take a laptop.

 

[jamie]

hehe there is no book for this kinda thing..there is no manual. Period. You figure out what works..and what doesn't..and hope that helps you swim. The rest, in online. Far more experienced people here than anywhere.

Is it no wonder so many mystics are raving mad?

You take a chance, that's life.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

What I was looking for was more along the lines of a book that covers Set and Setting in detail for the solo journeyer. .

As far as one specific book I'd suggest the Open Hyperspace Traveler as an excellent guidebook for the solo journeyer.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Also, for what it's worth, Kilham is a pretty poor reference. Even if we ignore all of the bioprospecting he's engaged in, his book contains misinformation and inaccuracies. Some of his passages seem as though he's literally taken his opinion and attempted to pass it off as fact.

Take for example his "critique" of anthropologists:

Anthropologists who investigate native cultures are advised to maintain objectivity by keeping themselves as cultural observers and not participants, based on the theory that this way of proceeding enhances the clarity of their work. In fact, such an arm's-length approach renders the anthropologist incapable of grasping most of the important practices, principles, and nuances of native cultures. For only by engaging, by diving in deeply and participating side by side with native people, can one gain any actual appreciation for how these people live. This is especially so with shamanism. You can sit on a log, pen and paper in hand, and tick off a list of prepared questions designed to reveal the nature of these practices, or you can participate directly in shamanic ceremonial practices and actually learn something substantive about the nature of shamanism. When you cross that line, you gain real knowledge, while sacrificing fundamentally worthless academic "objectivity."

The fact that he seems oblivious to "participant observation" and appears to be offering a critique of anthropology that would have been relevant some 75+ years ago rather than today is telling. Similarly telling is that his critique ignores the work of people like Narby and Beyer. Of course, there's also a smattering of inaccuracies about what ayahuasca is (two plants) and a sprinkling of "noble savagery" (the elder female shaman who sees the true power in Kilham) that the work as a whole seems like little more than pop prose with ayahuasca as its subject of choice.

Just my $.02

 

[Ryusaki]

A shaman has a broad skillset and he/she fullfils many functions in his social network. Usually he trains for years under an experienced elder.

One of the most important functions is the ability to diagnose and to threat illnesses.
So unless you have learned, trained and are experienced in that, you should not call yourself a shaman.

You wouldn't dare to call yourself a psychiatrist, just because you know a couple of drugs to manipulate yourself.

But that shouldn't stop you from doing these medicines. Yes you can do them alone, you don't need a shaman, 80% of the healing, the plants can do alone. But if you need the extra push, the security and the healing, real shamans are always a profound help.

I have had ceremonies with shipibo curanderos and i would seriously recommend them to anyone interested.

 

[travsha]

I wrote a book for the solo Ayahuasca practitioner.... But I cannot share it here because of forum rules. It is on Amazon though and includes tips for working with many different plants, with a heavier focus on Ayahuasca and San Pedro. It's out there in the internet land though.....

As far as the is a shaman needed thread of the conversation.... No, not needed for most people, but very helpful. I taught myself how to play guitar, but I know a teacher would have helped me learn much faster and I would be a better player now if I had had a teacher... With Ayahuasca - I have drank with and without shamans, and the shamans certainly added something very substantial to the experience that was not there when they werent there. I still had great experiences on my own, but they were very different (and this is coming from someone who sings icaros and has dieted plants in preparation to hold my own ceremonies).

The shamans I drank with had 30+ years experience focusing on this as their main path in life.... To say that they wouldnt have something worthwhile to share after that time is ridiculous. Sure you dont need one though. I dont need a car either, but it is helpful and helps me get places faster.

I personally will keep drinking on my own, and with shamans. I like the mixture of both ways.

 

[jamie]

Shamanism is from Siberia, and is culturally distinct from what we are discussing.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

A shaman has a broad skillset and he/she fullfils many functions in his social network. Usually he trains for years under an experienced elder.

One of the most important functions is the ability to diagnose and to threat illnesses.
So unless you have learned, trained and are experienced in that, you should not call yourself a shaman.

You wouldn't dare to call yourself a psychiatrist, just because you know a couple of drugs to manipulate yourself.

But that shouldn't stop you from doing these medicines. Yes you can do them alone, you don't need a shaman, 80% of the healing, the plants can do alone. But if you need the extra push, the security and the healing, real shamans are always a profound help.

I have had ceremonies with shipibo curanderos and i would seriously recommend them to anyone interested.

I did not intend to call myself a Shaman. After reading the book I mentioned, it caused me to question whether or not I should do it without a Shaman. I know that I can do it myself, so saying that 'I can be my own Shaman' was just a way to describe it. And if I offended anyone, I sincerely apologize.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

As far as the is a shaman needed thread of the conversation.... No, not needed for most people, but very helpful. I taught myself how to play guitar, but I know a teacher would have helped me learn much faster and I would be a better player now if I had had a teacher... With Ayahuasca - I have drank with and without shamans, and the shamans certainly added something very substantial to the experience that was not there when they werent there. I still had great experiences on my own, but they were very different (and this is coming from someone who sings icaros and has dieted plants in preparation to hold my own ceremonies).

The shamans I drank with had 30+ years experience focusing on this as their main path in life.... To say that they wouldnt have something worthwhile to share after that time is ridiculous. Sure you dont need one though. I dont need a car either, but it is helpful and helps me get places faster.

I personally will keep drinking on my own, and with shamans. I like the mixture of both ways.

I totally agree with you. I love your use of analogies.

The way I see it, a Shaman who has entered the Spirit Realm, hundred of times a year, for several decades, is a very skillful guide and a powerful intercessor. A ceremony with one with a very good heart would be very beneficial.

But I trust that I can get most of the work done myself, I will find a Shaman when it comes to the point that I feel I need one.

I can make hundreds of doses cheaper than one trip to Peru. But I will be going at some point, because Macchu Picchu is #1 on my Bucket List. So a Shaman in the Sacred Valley would work out very well. I almost went 2 years ago.

If I could ever find a BYO ceremony with a traveling or visiting Shaman, that would work to.

 

[inaniel]

Shamanism is from Siberia, and is culturally distinct from what we are discussing.

Care to explain this further? Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but originating from a specific place does not seem to me to mean it is limited to the practices or beliefs of that specific origin. I am interested to hear more, though.

 

[travsha]

Shamanism is from Siberia, and is culturally distinct from what we are discussing.

Care to explain this further? Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but originating from a specific place does not seem to me to mean it is limited to the practices or beliefs of that specific origin. I am interested to hear more, though.

As I understand it, shaman is actually a German word which is based on a Siberian word that is very similar. I believe the Siberian word was something like shawan, but cant remember. If you look up the definition of "shaman" you will see there are 4 commonly accepted definitions, and the word is a part of the english language now and refers to a certain type of healer archetype which variations of are found all over the world. Even in Siberia the shamans (or whatever their original name was) can have a huge range of practices (some focused on ingesting entheogens, some on drumming, some on dancing, some on offerings ect).

Some people really like to argue about the word though saying that the common usage and the definition are wrong because the word was inspired by a specific culture, but most words at some time came from another culture or language and all languages evolve over time.... Shaman has been a part of european and english language used in the way we are using it in this thread for a few hundred years now, so I guess it is here to stay...

I just go with the common usage and the normal definition because that is what most people understand and to me languages are just a tool for communication and they work best when most people understand what you mean.

 

[BecometheOther]

The shaman is unnecessary, imo. The indigenous people of the Amazon may have discovered the specific preparation we call Ayahuasca, but the interaction of MAOIs, DMT, and our bodies is not restricted to any one culture. Any human being, from anywhere in the world, can take that combination of molecules, and have a powerful, visionary experience. To suggest that it is only appropriate, or useful, when restricted to a culture that, for all intents and purposes, just got lucky seems very narrow minded to me.

Now, given the nature of the substance, you probably want a sitter, and one who understands the inner workings of the experience, and a shaman can definitely fill that role, but all the extra stuff, the dogmas and what-not, are simply extraneous.

Blessings
~ND

That strikes me as slightly nieve...

Just like to point out that of course anyone can ingest the combination of MAOI + DMT. Its not that hard to drink.... It is navigating the sometimes challenging spaces we enter where the use of a shaman is good to have, offering protection and guidance through these spaces, and directing the journey in a positive flow.

Just cause you drink ayahuasca doesn't mean that you are a master of altered-states of conciousness, like a good shaman should be.

I have never dranken with a shaman, and i have done it personally many times alone. But through this experience i have learned that in some cases you can do more overall damage than good if you find yourself in a difficult place and unable to deal with what is happening.

That said i still drink alone and will continue to do so. but I have had experiences that have damaged me and have been very difficult to integrate and i took years to learn this lesson.

 

[Pile of cats]

I too think that it's possible to have damaging experiences with ayahuasca if you just blindly tumble through the experience. Although I financially will not be able to go do a shaman guided ceremony any time soon, I still see that there's huge potential for healing from ayahuasca done alone or with a few friends on the same path. I would personally recommend someone going the solo path to start small without admixture and slowly work your way up and realise that deep journeys aren't always what's needed for change and that lots of small doses between the large ones coupled with meditation will help you to understand what's really going on in these experiences and how they can serve you.

 

[travsha]

I too think that it's possible to have damaging experiences with ayahuasca if you just blindly tumble through the experience. Although I financially will not be able to go do a shaman guided ceremony any time soon, I still see that there's huge potential for healing from ayahuasca done alone or with a few friends on the same path. I would personally recommend someone going the solo path to start small without admixture and slowly work your way up and realise that deep journeys aren't always what's needed for change and that lots of small doses between the large ones coupled with meditation will help you to understand what's really going on in these experiences and how they can serve you.

I always recommend the same thing - start really slow, and consider starting without admixtures. You can do a lot of ground work that way.

Years ago when I didnt know what I was really doing yet and had zero access to any type of guide I hurt myself with plant medicines getting in over my head. Just like becometheother it took me years to undo that damage and learn the lessons involved... It was a very difficult process and I think I am lucky to not be in a mental hospital or hurt some other way. I have met other people who went to deep and spent years in depression with horrible dreams and uncontrollable physical and emotional side effects tormenting them.... Some people have a lot of darkness or may open doors they werent ready for...

Not everyone needs a shaman. Some people do. Whether you need one or not, they can provide a very helpful service and in my personal experience they add something very very substantial to the experience.