5-MeO-DMT - Hype or Hyperbole?

[Here&Now]

I like the simplicity with which you frame this and it makes sense that the practice in essence is simple.

The vid you link with Adyashanti describes it well also in the simplicity and it aligns with what we had discussed earlier about the top down and bottom up paths of practice merging.

Like for example sensory restraint and ethical living needing to be cultivated from the side of the individual self, yet it also being an effortless and fundamental part of the already awakened mind.
So when one touches the awakened state and operates from there one naturally is like this, but unless one also consciously develops the practice outside of this then the egoic self will tend to gradually predominate again, so the idea of lasting meaningful change with psychedelics alone and without doing the work outside this is not really possible as the egoic self doesn't magically disappear permanently by itself although sometimes insights from psychedelics can be transformative in themselves and lead to more effortless change.

Right, this is 100% accurate in my experience. I'm guessing that until a certain threshold is crossed, the progress that's gained is perishable without further reinforcement. I'm sure we've all heard of scenarios where someone goes through a super profound trip, acts in a more conscious manner for a period of time, and then eventually regresses back to their previous state. I've been through that cycle a bunch of times myself.

I am linking here a recent study done which examined 5-MeO-DMT alongside Mahamudra meditation with an expert meditator from the Tibetan lineage. I am supposing they selected Mahamudra meditation as descriptively it matches many of the characteristics we discussed, a brief description of the practice is here.

It is interesting to find subjective and neurological correspondences between 5-MeO-DMT, particularly at lower doses and non dual meditation which match descriptions you gave and affirms that both phenomenologically and experientially it is the same, or a very similar state. It raises questions also as to the divergence regards higher doses.

I know you probably wouldn't regard yourself as an advanced meditator, but you do have a fair amount of experience with practice for some years and obviously you have a lot of experience with 5-MeO-DMT, unlike the study participant who was drug naiive.

I did see that study and video when it came out recently. Very interesting stuff for sure. I love how so many people are becoming aware of the stark similarities between 5-MeO-DMT and meditation. It opens the door to so much more discovery. If we were to consider meditation as one of the most valuable activities a person can do, then 5-MeO-DMT can perhaps be considered one of the most valuable substances in the world. Who knows what kind of effective utilizations can be discovered through technological advancement?

Regarding some of the results of the study, there's one area where I'll be presumptuous. When it comes to the abundance of brain activity seen on the EEG during the 5-MeO-DMT breakthrough, I would assume the Kundalini-based energetic state that's produced is confounding the measurements they're trying to collect. This is difficult to explain and probably even more difficult for some to believe, but what courses through the body during this condition is energy in the literal sense. And without having the evidence to back it up, I claim it's some form of heightened bodily electromagnetism in particular. Even under normal conditions, EEG readings can be distorted by the subtle amounts of electricity generated from gently flexing a muscle (which is a confounding phenomenon known to EEG technicians), so I'd have to believe there's the possibility of a 5-MeO-DMT breakthrough skewing results by way of the energetic byproducts.

I theorize towards an explanation like this for the EEG results because there is no mental activity at all when 5-MeO-DMT reaches its peak. It's the selfless void, both everything and nothing, and so amazing as to typically be considered the face of God itself upon experiencing it. Mental activity as we usually think of it drops to absolute zero. The study's interpretation that extreme mental activity creates a secondary doorway to non-duality seems like a potential artifact of the measuring tool in my opinion, though I wouldn't deny such a conjuration of high-activity non-duality might be possible via some other means besides 5-MeO-DMT.

One thing that was missing from their study was the variable of doing meditation while under 5-MeO-DMT. This is something you would possibly be able to comment on regards low dose combined with meditation and the enhancement of both. There is also the added aspect which the study doesn't address, probably because there is no currently accepted framework of understanding but frequent reports we have discussed of activation of the Kundalini system and how this fits into the larger path of development.

Yes, totally agree. I believe low and mid doses of 5-MeO-DMT combined with meditation are where some of the most practical insights can be gained. It doesn't even have to strictly be sitting meditation. What these doses offer best is a guiding light towards authentic mindfulness of the moment when used alongside correct meditative skill and effort. Awareness of the moment may seem like a small thing on its own, but as we've been touching on throughout the discussion, an awful lot of special characteristics click into place automatically once certain thresholds are reached in moment-to-moment awareness. It's as if it enables an entirely different mode in the human operating system.

After experiencing this ultra-present state of Suchness so clearly with the assistance of 5-MeO-DMT, I've been able to more easily recognize it when it's described by spiritual authors.

Adyashanti - Emptiness Dancing:
"The next thing that happened was that I took a step, just an ordinary step. It felt like the way a baby does when it takes his first good step and then smiles and looks around as if to say, “Did you see that?” and you can see his joy. So I took a step, and it was like, “Wow! The first step!” and another step, and then another, and I kept moving in circles because every step was the first step. It was a miracle.

In each “first” step, formless consciousness and Oneness just merged together so that the awakeness that had always identified itself as form was now actually inside of the form, unidentified. It wasn’t looking through any thoughts or memories of what had come before, just through the five senses. With no history or memory, every step felt like a first step.

Then the funniest thought came through my mind—funny to me after 13 years of Zen practice—“Oops. I just woke up out of Zen!” When you wake up, you realize that you wake up out of everything, including all the things that have helped to bring you there."

Av Neryah - Liberation A Spiritual Autobiography:
"One afternoon I was walking down the stairs with the laundry basket when suddenly, without anything changing within the body-mind's perception, there was no basket, no stairs, and no laundry. There was just the visual scenery, sound, and sensations that together create the seamless experience that we call "body walking down the stairs with the laundry basket." Nothing had fundamentally changed in perception, nothing extraordinary had occurred, and yet there was no body walking down, no stairs, and no laundry basket beside the seen, the heard, and the sensed. And it was effulgent, pristine, and flawless."

Famous Zen koan:
"When I heard the sound of the bell ringing, there was no I, and no bell, just the ringing.”