5-MeO-DMT - Hype or Hyperbole?

[Here&Now]

Ironically, the physical apparatus behind the mind is largely chemical. And serotonin is but three methylations away from 5-MeO-DMT! It would be fascinating to find out just how many biochemical pathways can be modulated through focussed mental… effort seems like the wrong word, perhaps. Discipline?

Oh wow, yeah. Looks like you just had the same consideration.

 

[Transform]

Endogenous β-carbolines deserve a level of acknowledgement, like pinoline and 6-methoxyharman, the latter being a cyclisation product of melatonin. Which, via Rick Strassman (bless 'im!), brings us back to both Buddhist meditation and DMT in a roundabout, if not wholly surprising, fashion.

 

[Here&Now]

Endogenous β-carbolines deserve a level of acknowledgement, like pinoline and 6-methoxyharman, the latter being a cyclisation product of melatonin. Which, via Rick Strassman (bless 'im!), brings us back to both Buddhist meditation and DMT in a roundabout, if not wholly surprising, fashion.

Really fascinating stuff. I've come across knowledge of pinoline when I was searching to see if there was an endogenous equivalent to the MAOI portion of ayahuasca. A fully endogenous-based ayahuasca seems like it could be interesting. Do you know if pinoline has been synthesized, and whether anyone has actually tried using it?

I haven't heard of 6-methoxyharman. Also sounds intriguing.

 

[Transform]

6-Methoxyharman is just like harmine (= 7-methoxyharman) but with the methoxy group moved "back" one step around the β-carboline ring system. Pinoline is very similar except the methyl group at the 1-position is absent, and it's a tetrahydro derivative, similar to THH.

It's also rather fascinating how plants also produce both the 6- and the 7-methoxy-β-carboline derivatives, but somehow the 7-methoxies (harmine et al.) have a far greater ethnopharmacological significance overall.

I think @bk2492* recently was posting a bit of information about β-carbolines, plus there are some snippets about the 6-methoxy derivatives, including their synthesis where available, in the second part and one of the appendices of TIHKaL, although it's shocking to think that particular work is now over 28 years old!

I'm pretty sure that pinoline can be formed rather easily by the Pictet-Spengler condensation of mexamine with formaldehyde, while broadly similar reactions form the other analogues.

*

Science paper - 6-MeO-harmalan

The isolation of 6-methoxyharmalan and 6-methoxyharman from Virola cuspidata. Cassady, J. M., Blair, G. E., Raffauf, R. F., & Tyler, V. E. 1971. Lloydia, 34(1), 161–162. "For his study, Markus mixed a representative of the β-Carbolins (harmin, harmalin, or 6-MeO-harmalan) with a tryptamine...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

Harmalas and other less-known β-Carbolines Workthread

This first post will be expanded as more information is pooled in. Harmine AKA Telepathine; 7-methoxy-1-methyl-9H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole Harmine chemical and physical properties Pharmacology of harmine (Trout's notes on ayahuasca) Reported natural sources (Trout's notes on ayahuasca)...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

 

[Here&Now]

Wow, thanks so much, those sources are great. Reading through them made me aware that there's likely a whole lot more psychedelic biochemistry going on than I realized. I guess it's to be expected that there'd be complexity in a system like that.

Now, if only I wasn't an absolute layman, I'd be compelled to try creating some of these molecules, lol.

 

[blig-blug]

@Transform very interesting stuff, thanks for all that info!

As for the question of whether 5-MeO-DMT could be behind the jhana experience, it sounds reasonable that it would. But even if that were proved, we still would be missing pieces of the mechanism, as we still wouldn't know what is causing the release of 5-MeO-DMT in those states when the cause is not the exogenous introduction of the substance.

It could further be asked "what caused the person to start meditating at that moment", but then it gets rather philosophical. So I think it makes sense to conceptualize a neurochemical mechanism where (if proven) 5-MeO-DMT would be the last step, but may not be the first. In this speculative manner, imagine there were a series of neurochemical factors that ultimately lead to that 5-MeO-DMT release. Then a training could be possible where one starts at first with 5-MeO-DMT itself and later other previous factors in the chain are used instead (plus some kind of mental techniques), going further back in the chain until the subject can induce the whole process reliably through the mental techniques exclusively.

 

[Panpsychic]

For sure, it's extremely interesting. Very revolutionary to one's method of practice. It almost becomes like loosening your grip instead of always trying to tighten it.

I do think there's value in practices focused strictly on concentration. For people who have natural talent with them, they seem to be able to take you to the same depths as 5-MeO-DMT in terms of jhana/samadhi. But as you guessed, the necessary amount of concentration becomes baked in as part of the manifesting of the natural state.
To me, it seems like concentration practices are somewhat of a biohack to reach that point, whereas this other method I'm describing feels more like the way it was intended to be done by whatever force created these mechanisms in the human form.

This would make sense. 5-MeO-DMT has not been available to most throughout history nor would the majority be ready for it. The gradual approach has to be the one that is more pervasive and approachable but you realize its limitations when you have the direct access means.

Yeah, I guess I've held back a little bit in terms of what I really believe. Personally, I've had no doubt as to the multidimensional, consciousness-based nature of reality for like 20 years. I was lucky enough to have some spontaneous spiritual experiences in my early 20s that instantly changed me from an agnostic to someone who couldn't believe more in the possibility of gnosis. It's true that I still don't have a clear picture of what an afterlife looks like, and my transcendent experiences with psychedelics seem to indicate that it may be beyond my ability to even imagine it. But I have literally no doubt it exists, by whatever form.

Doubt is simply another obstruction that can be let go of by trusting your Gnosis.

Like I mentioned, 5-MeO-DMT has a primary focus in the causal. And in my experience, DMT, as well as practically all other psychedelics, has a primary focus in the subtle. That's not necessarily to say they can't intermingle. I've seen plenty of trip reports where people get a taste of the whiteout with DMT, LSD, and others. It's just that 5-MeO-DMT is so targeted to that level that it really stands apart in terms of its contents. You'll quickly know what I mean if you try it.

Would you not say though that some of your Harmala+DMT experiences pertaining to the after death state, were more at the causal level in this framework?

I've mentioned terms like subtle and causal. They're part of the Vedanta map of consciousness that I use to understand altered states, including those initiated by psychedelics. The model may seem overly simple, but it's proven to be so helpful at differentiating levels of experience.

Thanks for sharing this.

I previously mentioned Chris Bache and a video of him talking about 5-MeO. He presents a similar framework although based on his experiences with meditation combined with high dose LSD sessions over a 20 year period which I will put here just as its the one I use as a map. What I Iike about it is it has emerged from his experiences although no doubt he draws on psychological and spiritual perspectives to inform it.

His description of the layers here is timestamped along with the below brief breakdown of it assisted with AI.

Personal mind

The personal biographic layer, personality structure, and the domain of traditional psychotherapy.

Spiritual process: The personal self must be purified and for the next levels to unfold in an integrated way and to awaken their full potential.

Movement: Letting go of personal identity.


2. Collective Consciousness - Humanity’s Psyche

The psychological field of all of humanity—past, present, and future. This includes shared trauma (e.g., war, ecological collapse) and shared potential (positive societal changes, awakening to higher consciousness and ethics).

Spiritual process: To open the heart and soul to interconnectedness, and to be reborn into service.

Movement: Dissolving separation between self and humanity.


3. Archetypal Realm — Divine Cosmic Patterns

The mythic, symbolic, and spiritual architecture that governs human experience—deities, sacred geometry, divine principles, karmic structures and the souls cosmic curriculum. Not merely metaphorical but actual realities.


Spiritual process: To see how soul and cosmos are structured, to align with divine purpose

Movement: Living aligned with archetypal patterns and meaning


4. Causal Oneness — Universal Divine Intelligence

The vast, impersonal, all-knowing consciousness that dreams the universe into being. This is God as creative intelligence, the ordering principle of all existence.

Spiritual process: To realize your soul is part of an infinite intelligence. You are not separate—you are a wave in God’s knowing.

Movement: Merging with the Mind of God.

5. Diamond Luminosity — The Clear Light Field of Ultimate Reality

The pure, nondual, infinite field of awareness. This is not a being—not even “God” in a conventional sense—but the Absolute, the radiant field that simply is.
Total dissolution into radiant clarity, infinite stillness, and perfect presence. No self, no time, no division. Only being.

Spiritual process: The end of the self, the end of seeking. To know God not as an idea but as reality itself.

Movement: ?


Interestingly although he outlines this framework he also states that there is:

∞ - The Beyond the Beyond — Endless Unfolding Infinities

"There is no final level. Beyond every summit, there is another summit. The Diamond Light is not the end. The journey never ends.”
—Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe


What he terms the highest stage of the 'Diamond Luminosity' which he had been working toward for years and seems broadly to be the same domain as the nondual whiteout, even this he says he had one of his last experiences on acid where he had managed to go far into the Diamond Luminosity, and suddenly a beam of light shot out and struck him that shattered his consciousness from a whole other dimension of again a greater order of being. That was when he realized the process was essentially infinite, eternal and unlimited and never ever ended.

In other words 'God' or Absolute Consciousness is progressing through its own journey which never ends of ever greater and more sublime states of ever unfolding Infinities, and this process goes on for Eternity because there is no longer any limiting factor.


In terms of the distinction into the different stages regardless of how many we delineate, what is striking is that he entered all the different stages with his practice and LSD over a gradual period.
Certainly than, while the substance is the platform it is possible to traverse the different stages both without substances (very difficult and requires huge amounts of practice), or combining meditation with the substances (requires practice but much less than without the substance).


If as you say 5-MeO grants direct access to the causal level or perhaps the Diamond Luminosity or Clear Light level, this would be again potentially a top down pathway, my concerns would be however if 5-MeO could lead to a spritual bypassing effect if it solely geared toward the clear light level. Unless perhaps lower doses can be done to work at the lower levels, however these other levels are maybe best worked through with different substances such as shrooms or acid.


Harmala+DMT in this framework I think occupies a good middle ground. I have had experiences with it on all levels excluding the clear light level, but predominantly what he calls the archetypal and causal oneness levels and there is long enough to work with it (if drinking harmalas then smoking you have a good 40 mins to work with and can repeat).

 

[Transform]

@Transform very interesting stuff, thanks for all that info!

As for the question of whether 5-MeO-DMT could be behind the jhana experience, it sounds reasonable that it would. But even if that were proved, we still would be missing pieces of the mechanism, as we still wouldn't know what is causing the release of 5-MeO-DMT in those states when the cause is not the exogenous introduction of the substance.

It could further be asked "what caused the person to start meditating at that moment", but then it gets rather philosophical. So I think it makes sense to conceptualize a neurochemical mechanism where (if proven) 5-MeO-DMT would be the last step, but may not be the first. In this speculative manner, imagine there were a series of neurochemical factors that ultimately lead to that 5-MeO-DMT release. Then a training could be possible where one starts at first with 5-MeO-DMT itself and later other previous factors in the chain are used instead (plus some kind of mental techniques), going further back in the chain until the subject can induce the whole process reliably through the mental techniques exclusively.

You're welcome, although I'm but a librarian in these matters.


You talk of processes upstream prior to (putative) endogenous 5-MeO-DMT release, but I'll emphasise again, there's also a whole chain of downstream biochemical changes which will be resulting from the substance's receptor action and its particular profile in this. If there are ways that meditative states bring any parts of these downstream neurochemical changes into play, these could also be responsible for, for example, the reported "5% of the intensity of 5-MeO-DMT" mentioned somewhere above. In fact, I'd say this more likely than 5-MeO-DMT being released endogenously in any significant amount.

 

[Jamie01]

Wouldn’t it be likely that other receptors/neurotransmitters and hormones would be involved as well? Like glutamate etc? What about kappa receptors?

Also how do you factor in just how different people are? What’s going on in the brain of a person with hyperphantasia vs aphantasia? How will that effect the outcome in an individual after say, a 10 day vipassana retreat or darkrooming?

If you plant 40 phalaris seeds you might have 1 that produces cleanish 5-MeO-DMT..maybe there’s a DMT clone…maybe bufotenine and some beta carboline dominant strains and maybe just some super low alkaloid producers in general. I have always just assumed most organisms are like this to some extent. Are different people subjected to different limits/advantages in terms of what types of mystical experiences they are prone to having?

Why do some people start having wild closed eye visions from half a gram of cubes, while some others can eat 3 grams and experience profound mental effects but visually only lower level warping etc?

Does it have to do with receptor polymorphisms?

 

[Transform]

Wouldn’t it be likely that other receptors/neurotransmitters and hormones would be involved as well? Like glutamate etc? What about kappa receptors?

Also how do you factor in just how different people are? What’s going on in the brain of a person with hyperphantasia vs aphantasia? How will that effect the outcome in an individual after say, a 10 day vipassana retreat or darkrooming?

If you plant 40 phalaris seeds you might have 1 that produces cleanish 5-MeO-DMT..maybe there’s a DMT clone…maybe bufotenine and some beta carboline dominant strains and maybe just some super low alkaloid producers in general. I have always just assumed most organisms are like this to some extent. Are different people subjected to different limits/advantages in terms of what types of mystical experiences they are prone to having?

Why do some people start having wild closed eye visions from half a gram of cubes, while some others can eat 3 grams and experience profound mental effects but visually only lower level warping etc?

Does it have to do with receptor polymorphisms?

All great points and very much the background to my allusions. All those other receptors have their own endogenous ligands with their own mechanisms behind their release. Their interactions can, in principle, be mapped out. And it's not just variation between individuals, but our own receptor subtype distribution will be varying through time as well. There maybe seasonal, diurnal, dietary and other environmental influences in all of this.

I don't feel qualified to comment on individual variations in sensitivity and things like aphantasia. Prof. Dave Nichols has made an extensive explanation of the state of knowledge on downstream chances in neurological and neurochemical activity after serotonergic receptor activation. There's a link to it somewhere here on the nexus, and can probably still be found on popular video streaming sites. Might take me a while to dig that one up, though.

 

[Here&Now]

Would you not say though that some of your Harmala+DMT experiences pertaining to the after death state, were more at the causal level in this framework?

During those experiences, perhaps I was dipping into characteristics of the causal far more than if I weren't enhanced by tripping, but at least from what I've seen, a full immersion into the causal just has a different flavor. It forces a perspective which strongly emphasizes that literally everything in existence is you, and it does it in a way where that one revelation is the singular focus. All the narratives and lessons that come with a typical psychedelic trip collapse into a non-dual realization of oneness.

Now, it is the case that I've approached that state on Harmala+DMT, but it was only once or twice that I can remember. It's similar to what I wrote above, where everything started becoming quiet, a whiteness filled my view, an unspeakable joy/bliss of the revelation filled my being, and there were the beginnings of an ultra-intuitive grasp of causal oneness. But after having used 5-MeO-DMT a while later than those experiences, it targets that state specifically and cranks it up to 11.

I previously mentioned Chris Bache and a video of him talking about 5-MeO. He presents a similar framework although based on his experiences with meditation combined with high dose LSD sessions over a 20 year period which I will put here just as its the one I use as a map. What I Iike about it is it has emerged from his experiences although no doubt he draws on psychological and spiritual perspectives to inform it.

Yeah, this is great, thanks for sharing. I do remember now that you shared something similar about a year ago. I guess our conversation must have looped a little, lol. If you're working with a map like this, you're probably thinking about states in a very similar way to myself. Chris Bache's map seems to be a more granular version of Vedanta's where Personal Mind corresponds to Gross, Collective Consciousness and Archetypal Realm correspond to Subtle, and Causal Oneness and Diamond Luminosity correspond to Causal. I think the extra detail can be helpful in navigating the terrain, because there really are gradations to these states, and it's all part of a spectrum where one flows into the next.

I especially find The Beyond the Beyond to be super interesting. In a situation where reality itself is infinite, I suppose it makes perfect sense that there wouldn't be an "ending" to the capacity for realization. I shudder to even imagine the profundity that the next level(s) would entail.

If as you say 5-MeO grants direct access to the causal level or perhaps the Diamond Luminosity or Clear Light level, this would be again potentially a top down pathway, my concerns would be however if 5-MeO could lead to a spritual bypassing effect if it solely geared toward the clear light level. Unless perhaps lower doses can be done to work at the lower levels, however these other levels are maybe best worked through with different substances such as shrooms or acid.

Harmala+DMT in this framework I think occupies a good middle ground. I have had experiences with it on all levels excluding the clear light level, but predominantly what he calls the archetypal and causal oneness levels and there is long enough to work with it (if drinking harmalas then smoking you have a good 40 mins to work with and can repeat).

It's a very interesting point, and I do share in your concerns that a certain type of development (namely subtle) could be missed by only partaking in 5-MeO-DMT. In my own Harmala+DMT experiences, I would always feel such a strong sense of relief as various internal challenges were worked through during a trip. It was as if knots were being untied that I didn't even know were there. It really does feel like a totally separate type of development that occurs when you compare the fruits of the two substances.

With 5-MeO-DMT, you can work with lower doses, but it's just nowhere near the same thing as Harmala+DMT. Fascinatingly, it still targets that same causal level, even though you're far from breaking through. You'd probably have to experience it to know what I mean by that; it's hard to explain the difference. In my opinion, you couldn't use low doses of 5-MeO-DMT as a substitute for Harmala+DMT. You'd probably be missing out if you tried.

I'd recommend holding onto a variety of psychedelics if your goal is the kind of spiritual development we've been discussing. Even though 5-MeO-DMT is my main, I have a pretty vast repertoire myself. From the great classics, to novel RCs that have proven interesting. I think your line of thought is correct that it'd be counterproductive to purposely limit the size of your toolbox. And this convo has inspired me to consider more carefully that I watch out for a lopsided development.

 

[Panpsychic]

a full immersion into the causal just has a different flavor. It forces a perspective which strongly emphasizes that literally everything in existence is you, and it does it in a way where that one revelation is the singular focus. All the narratives and lessons that come with a typical psychedelic trip collapse into a non-dual realization of oneness.

Now, it is the case that I've approached that state on Harmala+DMT, but it was only once or twice that I can remember. It's similar to what I wrote above, where everything started becoming quiet, a whiteness filled my view, an unspeakable joy/bliss of the revelation filled my being, and there were the beginnings of an ultra-intuitive grasp of causal oneness. But after having used 5-MeO-DMT a while later than those experiences, it targets that state specifically and cranks it up to 11.

Having been looking a little bit more into Kundalini descriptions recently, would you say it broadly matches this (from the text Serpent Rising):


"Once the Light Body activation is complete, the experience does not end there. Instead, the Kundalini energy continues to rise upwards. The next step in the awakening process is the energy leaving the body altogether, through the Crown, taking the individual consciousness with it. This experience results in the momentary unification of the individual consciousness with the Cosmic Consciousness, the Fifth Dimensional White Light principle —the source of Divinity. Once this transcendental experience occurs, the individual consciousness re-enters the physical body, having seen the vision of the true nature of reality. Thus, the human becomes One with God for a brief moment, only to come back down and tell their story.

Alternatively, if the awakened individual becomes fearful of uniting their Being with the White Light, the Kundalini energy subsides and drops back down to the Root Chakra, Muladhara. After all, it is common for people who experience a spontaneous Kundalini awakening to become fearful during the activation process. It makes them feel like they are undergoing a physical death due to the intensity of the energy felt in the body and consciousness being liberated from it."


Secondly I'm curious as to if you have ever yourself, or have heard of anyone experiencing the lockout phenomenon occurring with 5-MeO-DMT? It's something I've actually come to appreciate as part of the interactive nature of DMT with Harmalas, a kind of accountability check for progress and until then the door remains closed, and I'm wondering if any such thing occurs for 5-MeO-DMT although its not something I have heard of with it.

 

[Here&Now]

Having been looking a little bit more into Kundalini descriptions recently, would you say it broadly matches this (from the text Serpent Rising):


"Once the Light Body activation is complete, the experience does not end there. Instead, the Kundalini energy continues to rise upwards. The next step in the awakening process is the energy leaving the body altogether, through the Crown, taking the individual consciousness with it. This experience results in the momentary unification of the individual consciousness with the Cosmic Consciousness, the Fifth Dimensional White Light principle —the source of Divinity. Once this transcendental experience occurs, the individual consciousness re-enters the physical body, having seen the vision of the true nature of reality. Thus, the human becomes One with God for a brief moment, only to come back down and tell their story.

Alternatively, if the awakened individual becomes fearful of uniting their Being with the White Light, the Kundalini energy subsides and drops back down to the Root Chakra, Muladhara. After all, it is common for people who experience a spontaneous Kundalini awakening to become fearful during the activation process. It makes them feel like they are undergoing a physical death due to the intensity of the energy felt in the body and consciousness being liberated from it."


Secondly I'm curious as to if you have ever yourself, or have heard of anyone experiencing the lockout phenomenon occurring with 5-MeO-DMT? It's something I've actually come to appreciate as part of the interactive nature of DMT with Harmalas, a kind of accountability check for progress and until then the door remains closed, and I'm wondering if any such thing occurs for 5-MeO-DMT although its not something I have heard of with it.

Yes, definitely. The passageway for consciousness to enter that particular state seems to be one of the main purposes of Kundalini's existence in the human body. I think that when people approach nonduality by whatever means, Kundalini becomes more active towards the goal of uplifting the individual, even if it's subtle enough as to be imperceptible to the person in question. So in that sense, I bet yourself and so many others on the forum experience aspects of it all the time in powerful trips and meditation. It's just that with a high dose of 5-MeO-DMT, it becomes absurdly palpable.

Interestingly, I haven't heard about or experienced the lockout phenomenon in relation to 5-MeO-DMT. I've done an awful lot of research and read an incredible number of trip reports about the psychedelic, so as far as I know, it doesn't happen. I see your point about it being a handy accountability check. There were a few times where I found myself abusing it, specifically when I was using it in the form of a vape pen and staying in that elevated condition for 3+ hours at a time.

 

[Panpsychic]

Yes, definitely. The passageway for consciousness to enter that particular state seems to be one of the main purposes of Kundalini's existence in the human body. I think that when people approach nonduality by whatever means, Kundalini becomes more active towards the goal of uplifting the individual, even if it's subtle enough as to be imperceptible to the person in question. So in that sense, I bet yourself and so many others on the forum experience aspects of it all the time in powerful trips and meditation. It's just that with a high dose of 5-MeO-DMT, it becomes absurdly palpable.

Interestingly, I haven't heard about or experienced the lockout phenomenon in relation to 5-MeO-DMT. I've done an awful lot of research and read an incredible number of trip reports about the psychedelic, so as far as I know, it doesn't happen. I see your point about it being a handy accountability check. There were a few times where I found myself abusing it, specifically when I was using it in the form of a vape pen and staying in that elevated condition for 3+ hours at a time.

Thats interesting then that lockout does not occur with 5-MeO-DMT as far as we are aware. This reinforces the risks as I see it with spiritual bypassing, which is perhaps what was occurring when you say you had abused it in the past, but I can see the appeal of wanting to stay in that state for longer and longer. Its when it becomes a form of escapism that theres a problem.

It seems that 5-MeO-DMT does indeed then activate the crown chakra which matches multiple spontaneous reports of this now. Have you found an ability once navigating it over time, to activate the other chakras also or in other words expand the different centres of being?

I think that we are really in a very privileged position, to both have systematic forms of practice available to us to develop ourselves from the ground up and activate the different dimensions of our being, for example the heart chakra or development of unbounded compassion and goodwill, (which can also possibly be facilitated by things like MDMA as a chemical counterpart) and work through the levels, as well as having direct guidance from 'On High' so to speak.

As I see it, this is the place to work on ourselves. Indeed, that is the reason we have as yet not attained to that level of reality, and we have come back here. There will be eternity to explore that dimension so the task here has to be to futher develop our mind and reduce the bonds that keep us from Oneness with that.

 

[Here&Now]

Thats interesting then that lockout does not occur with 5-MeO-DMT as far as we are aware. This reinforces the risks as I see it with spiritual bypassing, which is perhaps what was occurring when you say you had abused it in the past, but I can see the appeal of wanting to stay in that state for longer and longer. Its when it becomes a form of escapism that theres a problem.

That could be a risk to a spiritual practitioner since they're willing to push forward for results, but 5-MeO-DMT is a lot less recreational than DMT, so I imagine most people wouldn't choose to stay in that condition for so long. It also tore up my lungs, so I can't imagine I'll ever repeat that method. But I agree that it may have been helpful if the substance itself offered some kind of limiting mechanism to halt abuse.

It seems that 5-MeO-DMT does indeed then activate the crown chakra which matches multiple spontaneous reports of this now. Have you found an ability once navigating it over time, to activate the other chakras also or in other words expand the different centres of being?

5-MeO-DMT undoubtedly activates what we would call the crown chakra. Hindu imagery of the thousand-petal lotus even has an uncanny resemblance to the visuals produced in that state. As far as the other chakras, the only time in my life where I've had a clear perception of them is in the midst of the high-dose experiences themselves. Specifically as the Kundalini rises up the spine and reaches the next chakra, it feels simultaneously like a form an energy and an immediate enhancement of the current state of consciousness. The connection between their existence and consciousness can't be overstated. I guess that's because they exist in some kind of subtle form that transcends the physical that we're accustomed to.

Besides those peak experiences where chakras were clearly perceptible, I don't possess that same kind of perception in my everyday life. I bet it's possible to get there, but I haven't yet. What you do get that comes rather easily is a more kinesthetic/energetic awareness of your body as a whole. I suppose it's probably a side effect of the body experiencing high amounts of this energy and having the atrophied pathways woken up.

I think that we are really in a very privileged position, to both have systematic forms of practice available to us to develop ourselves from the ground up and activate the different dimensions of our being, for example the heart chakra or development of unbounded compassion and goodwill, (which can also possibly be facilitated by things like MDMA as a chemical counterpart) and work through the levels, as well as having direct guidance from 'On High' so to speak.

As I see it, this is the place to work on ourselves. Indeed, that is the reason we have as yet not attained to that level of reality, and we have come back here. There will be eternity to explore that dimension so the task here has to be to futher develop our mind and reduce the bonds that keep us from Oneness with that.

I agree, the amount of privielege in even being aware of this stuff as a literal potential is almost beyond reason. And then when you add on that we live in a time where psychedelics and all of this amazing historical information is freely available to us, it presents a real opportunity. I try to take a relaxed attitude about it as well, but I also keep in mind when the Buddha mentioned how one should act as if their hair is on fire and practice is the only way to put it out. Though, ultimately, it's probably true that nothing needs to be done, and certainly that there's nobody to actually do it.

 

[Panpsychic]

Besides those peak experiences where chakras were clearly perceptible, I don't possess that same kind of perception in my everyday life. I bet it's possible to get there, but I haven't yet. What you do get that comes rather easily is a more kinesthetic/energetic awareness of your body as a whole. I suppose it's probably a side effect of the body experiencing high amounts of this energy and having the atrophied pathways woken up.

I would think that the greater kinesthetic awareness you have is a precursor to and preliminary stage in developing more direct awareness of the other chakras and their pathways. I know you stated that 5-MeO-DMT primarily works at the causal level or crown chakra, but you also stated that its a complete path, in the form of a molecule. If that's the case then this top down approach should facilitate work with the other levels also.
That said it may also be that in the world of psychedelics there are just other tools more suited for different purposes. As I have experienced DMT + Harmalas seem to be for me working on the Third Eye or 6th chakra level primarily and I have to work on developing the other aspects.

One of the reasons I have as yet still not partaken of 5-MeO-DMT is because I am in the midst of various degrees of lockout with DMT currently which seems to be to encourage me to develop an all around meditative practice; it would seem an affront to that process for me to simply decide I am going to bypass it myself and just try to activate the 7th chakra, probably not a good idea so when the time is ready I will know I think but there is much to do still.

5-MeO-DMT undoubtedly activates what we would call the crown chakra. Hindu imagery of the thousand-petal lotus even has an uncanny resemblance to the visuals produced in that state...

I try to take a relaxed attitude about it as well, but I also keep in mind when the Buddha mentioned how one should act as if their hair is on fire and practice is the only way to put it out. Though, ultimately, it's probably true that nothing needs to be done, and certainly that there's nobody to actually do it.

My view is there is definitely work to be done, otherwise one is effectively making a declaration of permanant enlightenment. If there was nothing futher to do we probably wouldn't be here.
It is interesting that these experiences do seem to match more the Advaita than the Buddhist views. While both are similar, its the unmistakable presence of "God consciousness" which the Buddha is silent on yet is a guiding presence which leads me to think it is more aligned with that tradition for whatever reasons, although the Buddhst path no doubt leads to the same place.

My favourite 5-MeO-DMT vid is probably this one, just the overall sense of the sacred divine mystery of the Ultimate comes across very much in his experience.

 

[Here&Now]

I would think that the greater kinesthetic awareness you have is a precursor to and preliminary stage in developing more direct awareness of the other chakras and their pathways. I know you stated that 5-MeO-DMT primarily works at the causal level or crown chakra, but you also stated that its a complete path, in the form of a molecule. If that's the case then this top down approach should facilitate work with the other levels also.

Right, I suspect this as well. I've read confirmations from various spiritual practitioners where they describe a continuous awareness of an energetic sensation flowing up their spine, even during daily life. I believe it would signify that their normal state of consciousness has become nondual to the point where these energetic phenomena are activated in order to maintain the condition.

That said it may also be that in the world of psychedelics there are just other tools more suited for different purposes. As I have experienced DMT + Harmalas seem to be for me working on the Third Eye or 6th chakra level primarily and I have to work on developing the other aspects.

One of the reasons I have as yet still not partaken of 5-MeO-DMT is because I am in the midst of various degrees of lockout with DMT currently which seems to be to encourage me to develop an all around meditative practice; it would seem an affront to that process for me to simply decide I am going to bypass it myself and just try to activate the 7th chakra, probably not a good idea so when the time is ready I will know I think but there is much to do still.

For sure, it's one of those things where you should probably trust your gut. If and when the time is right, I have a feeling 5-MeO-DMT will find its way to you. Or alternatively, you'll end up not needing it at all to get where you want to be. That's always a possibility as well.

My view is there is definitely work to be done, otherwise one is effectively making a declaration of permanant enlightenment. If there was nothing futher to do we probably wouldn't be here.
It is interesting that these experiences do seem to match more the Advaita than the Buddhist views. While both are similar, its the unmistakable presence of "God consciousness" which the Buddha is silent on yet is a guiding presence which leads me to think it is more aligned with that tradition for whatever reasons, although the Buddhst path no doubt leads to the same place.

Yes! I've noticed how my raw experience seems to line up more with Advaita concepts as well. It's so much so that I've switched to Vedanta Hinduism as a source of information and inspiration, whereas I used to be more into Buddhism, Vajrayana or otherwise. Like you, I have a hard time believing that a dedicated Hindu practitioner and a dedicated Buddhist practitioner would end up in vastly different destinations. In all likelihood, it'd probably be very similar destinations. I think we have to be dealing with subtleties in wordings and explanations that we don't fully understand. Maybe Buddhism's creation was a response to the Hinduism of the time, and the decision was made to emphasize the selfless nature of all things rather than reinforcing the stale notion (at the time) that all things are one Self. I find both to be accurate in their own ways, but the latter is perhaps a better description in my opinion.

My favourite 5-MeO-DMT vid is probably this one, just the overall sense of the sacred divine mystery of the Ultimate comes across very much in his experience.

Same, this one is great. It's been said that the contents of that state are unspeakable, and it's really interesting seeing someone trying to grasp for the words and be simply unable to. It's as if that side of reality hides its secrets by way of pure profundity. He does do a good job though, and the imagery really helps paint a picture.