Research DMT salts for e-juice

[Animistic]

Hi. I made 1ml carts nearly a year ago following the starting with freebase instructions. I used and gifted many and soon found myself on a e-mesh then an RTA rabbit hole for the rest of the year. Clearing my garage out I found a stash of these carts. They haven't darkened at all, the juice is as clear and golden as I can remember. No signs of any precipitation. They smoke nice too with no clogging and are hitting harder than I expected. Just an observation I;d thought I'd report.
If I want to dilute the juice out of one of these carts down so I can use it in my RTA set up (to around a 1:4 dmt - pg mix) can I just dilute with pg or will I need to add a ratioed amount of citric into the mix as well? Thanks for guidence.

The citric acid is to salt the dmt rather than change the pH of the juice so to speak so just adding more PG is fine if the DMT is sufficiently salted to begin with which it sounds like it was.

 

[dmtzepi]

The citric acid is to salt the dmt rather than change the pH of the juice so to speak so just adding more PG is fine if the DMT is sufficiently salted to begin with which it sounds like it was.

Thank you.

 

[thomash]

I just used OpenAI's deep research to summarize all knowledge I gathered and the knowledge of the community on this topic. LMK what you think

 

[fractals4life]

Interesting!

Well for a start it talks about heptane wash to "remove residual base" when I'm pretty sure it's a water wash that's needed.

There seems to be some sort of rendering failure in those graph blocks (see section 2 for example).

It also seems to completely miss that colour is *not* a good indication of purity...

Not a great start, and one that made me somewhat lose faith in accuracy of the graphs and figures later.

All in all it did bring some points of discussion to my attention that I might go back and look at the source to verify, but contains some bad interpretations ... why does the "recommended antioxidants" list in section 10 contain an entry that is explicitly "NOT recommended" . A document to be read with care and not trusted IMHO.

 

[thomash]

Interesting!

Well for a start it talks about heptane wash to "remove residual base" when I'm pretty sure it's a water wash that's needed.

There seems to be some sort of rendering failure in those graph blocks (see section 2 for example).

It also seems to completely miss that colour is *not* a good indication of purity...

Not a great start, and one that made me somewhat lose faith in accuracy of the graphs and figures later.

All in all it did bring some points of discussion to my attention that I might go back and look at the source to verify, but contains some bad interpretations ... why does the "recommended antioxidants" list in section 10 contain an entry that is explicitly "NOT recommended" . A document to be read with care and not trusted IMHO.

You are right. I should have added a disclaimer that this was done in 30 minutes with AI and that a large percentage of the information could be slightly wrong or totally hallucinated.

I guess in forums discussing psychedelics and things people will try at home and take, one should be more careful.

I use AI more to get new ideas and inspiration rather than the information I would trust. I will reformat the document to make this more clear. But I'm pretty sure there is a large percentage of good information in there, too, since it could load a lot of discussions into its context and cross-reference them.

I will feed your feedback back into the system. Let's see if we can improve it.

 

[Alev-Kev]

70 Vg 30 Pg brought to hot in a pan of water, standard freebase D added to potency preference or solubility level exceeded, then injected into disposable carts with good coils using a hook tipped plastic syringe. Flavored with natural terpenes, this is very easy on the taste buds and lungs. It's been well received by all whom have shared....
Just my 2 cents

 

[isntme]

PG has a lower boiling point (188°C, 370°F) and we don't need the vapor density of VG (290°C, 554°F). So why adding Vg at all?
Did someone experiment with adding ethanol? Boiling point 78°C. Seems like PG and ethanol mix well and the effective boiling point can be estimated from the mixing proportion.
E.g.: with 10:90 ethanol : Pg we would have 170°C boiling point.

However according to Raoult's law, the partial pressure in the vapor will be according to the vapor pressure of the pure component.
This would mean that the ethanol vaporizes quicker (obvious), such that we are left with an ever increasing Pg proportion, so this is not worth it, I guess.

 

[Alev-Kev]

PG has a lower boiling point (188°C, 370°F) and we don't need the vapor density of VG (290°C, 554°F). So why adding Vg at all?
Did someone experiment with adding ethanol? Boiling point 78°C. Seems like PG and ethanol mix well and the effective boiling point can be estimated from the mixing proportion.
E.g.: with 10:90 ethanol : Pg we would have 170°C boiling point.

However according to Raoult's law, the partial pressure in the vapor will be according to the vapor pressure of the pure component.
This would mean that the ethanol vaporizes quicker (obvious), such that we are left with an ever increasing Pg proportion, so this is not worth it, I guess.

Plus, have you ever inhaled vaporized alcohol? Ouch!
The reason for VG is as a carrier. The reason for PG is to keep consistent viscosity for smoking. Just enough to keep the dose dissolved.

 

[Ruffles]

Also, VG is smoother on the throat.

 

[Low Shoe ☯️]

My extreme gratitude to Loveall, The Traveler, et al. for pioneering this method!
I have quite a bit of experience with psilocybin, but I'd never tried DMT before and was curious about folks enthusiasm. I was able to get my hands on some quite pure DMT FB recently through a friend, but I have rather sensitive lungs and so smoking it straight wasn't an option for me. I followed the steps outlined in Loveall's summary post but still had an incredibly bad time (covering my mouth and nose to stop coughing, only to burp up vapor lol ) Picked up some pH strips and turns out I was still around 8.5-9, added more citrate until I was just on the acidic side of neutral. My ratio ended up being closer to 1g + 0.55g + 2g. Gentlemen this shit is like candy, many thanks.
Pro tip for the newbies - remember to finely grind up your citric acid or you will be waiting forever for it to disolve!

The only issue I have with it is that after a while the PG irritates my lungs and has me coughing up slime. In the long run there's no way this is sustainable health-wise, and so I wanted to ask whether you had ever considered another carrier solvent? My friend actually uses DMSO for this, 0.7g FB into 0.3ml of solvent. Has anyone here looked into this before? He just makes FB carts, but DMSO has high solubility for citrate too so I assume you could still salt it just fine for shelf stability. (He says that folks haven't complained about harshness with the FB+DMSO, so maybe the solvent itself is doing something to neutralize? That or folks are just used to FB in a way that I can't handle.) It should also majorly help with absorption because DMSO is known to carry solutes through the skin, which should give you better yield per hit. I need to save up some cash before I can try this out myself, all of my FB went into my batch of PG citrate juice, but I wanted to throw it out to the community.

The biggest issue I can see is that you could get breakdown of rubber gaskets/glue holding the assembly together. I've been using iKrusher all-ceramic 'Karno' carts along with their S1 variable voltage pen battery that I got from VPM, and I've currently got a cart sitting filled with just solvent to see if I get any breakdown. According to my friend, I would want to run on the lowest voltage my battery does, 2.7V, and that "Not all carts work well with DMSO, some might leak or burn it. If it smells like a rotting carcass it is burnt and toxic, but a garlic smell is okay." Smelling pure DMSO I find that it has kind of a salty/seafoam/garlicy/off milk sort of thing going on, I imagine it could taste alright alongside that unique spice-y goodness?
A quick google search says glass and BPA-free plastic are the best for storage of DMSO. Sigma-Aldrich's product info sheet for DMSO says more specifically that it is compatible with many common plastics, but there are a few to definitely avoid.

Thanks again! Made my account to post this, and I look forward to future explorations with you all. Let me know what you think!

 

[isntme]

Recently experimented with my PG only juice.
Note that there is a quite nonlinear dependence of 'effective' strength over Wattage (even with MAOI, I could get nothing from 8W tokes, but quite some effect from 20W).
I found the ressources of minty (search for minty love on youtube, rumble and google pages). Lot's of good explanations.
Interestingly they find:
- adding VG makes the vaporized DMT more effectively absorbed (seems to act as carrier); idk if this is due the higher boiling point and the fact that the vapor is generally hotter if I'm correct
- the trips quality is more positive
In addition, they never add citric acid and state it is not required.

So I'll go for 80:20 (as he states fors well in the no.rebuildable atomizers) and will start off from 15W and try. Building a rebuildable atomizer currently, as the non-rebuildables seem to lead to bad trips when coil/cotton got burned, which seems to easily happen on these devices.

 

[Low Shoe ☯️]

My extreme gratitude to Loveall, The Traveler, et al. for pioneering this method!
I have quite a bit of experience with psilocybin, but I'd never tried DMT before and was curious about folks enthusiasm. I was able to get my hands on some quite pure DMT FB recently through a friend, but I have rather sensitive lungs and so smoking it straight wasn't an option for me. I followed the steps outlined in Loveall's summary post but still had an incredibly bad time (covering my mouth and nose to stop coughing, only to burp up vapor lol ) Picked up some pH strips and turns out I was still around 8.5-9, added more citrate until I was just on the acidic side of neutral. My ratio ended up being closer to 1g + 0.55g + 2g. Gentlemen this shit is like candy, many thanks.
Pro tip for the newbies - remember to finely grind up your citric acid or you will be waiting forever for it to disolve!

The only issue I have with it is that after a while the PG irritates my lungs and has me coughing up slime. In the long run there's no way this is sustainable health-wise, and so I wanted to ask whether you had ever considered another carrier solvent? My friend actually uses DMSO for this, 0.7g FB into 0.3ml of solvent. Has anyone here looked into this before? He just makes FB carts, but DMSO has high solubility for citrate too so I assume you could still salt it just fine for shelf stability. (He says that folks haven't complained about harshness with the FB+DMSO, so maybe the solvent itself is doing something to neutralize? That or folks are just used to FB in a way that I can't handle.) It should also majorly help with absorption because DMSO is known to carry solutes through the skin, which should give you better yield per hit. I need to save up some cash before I can try this out myself, all of my FB went into my batch of PG citrate juice, but I wanted to throw it out to the community.

The biggest issue I can see is that you could get breakdown of rubber gaskets/glue holding the assembly together. I've been using iKrusher all-ceramic 'Karno' carts along with their S1 variable voltage pen battery that I got from VPM, and I've currently got a cart sitting filled with just solvent to see if I get any breakdown. According to my friend, I would want to run on the lowest voltage my battery does, 2.7V, and that "Not all carts work well with DMSO, some might leak or burn it. If it smells like a rotting carcass it is burnt and toxic, but a garlic smell is okay." Smelling pure DMSO I find that it has kind of a salty/seafoam/garlicy/off milk sort of thing going on, I imagine it could taste alright alongside that unique spice-y goodness?
A quick google search says glass and BPA-free plastic are the best for storage of DMSO. Sigma-Aldrich's product info sheet for DMSO says more specifically that it is compatible with many common plastics, but there are a few to definitely avoid.

Thanks again! Made my account to post this, and I look forward to future explorations with you all. Let me know what you think!

Ladies, Gents, and everyone In-between or Otherwise,
I think it may be time to leave PG:VG in the past. I've had pure DMSO sitting in the above all-ceramic cart for 9 days and I've seen essentially no deterioration of the seals of the cart. My understanding is that while in the long term I'm sure it's not good to store such a powerful solvent around plasticized rubber, for the sake of a 1g cart session it could work perfectly. Credit where credit is due, I was informed of the possibility of using DMSO by 'Mr. Nobody' of u-dont-exist.com, my "friend" of the previous post. He's got a lot of great resources for spiritual healing over there and I truly can't recommend him enough.
Hopefully using this formulation we can leave behind much of the necessity for holding breath, as DMSO will effortlessly carry the molecule through the membranes of the lungs. I'm not in a position to experiment right now (lots of life happening atm lol), but I firmly believe that high purity DMT FB + Anhydrous citric acid sufficient to reach pH 6.5-7 + DMSO carrier solvent will be the most accessible, most comfortable, most efficent form of this remarkably transformative drug. Thanks for all of your hard work in this realm, keep walking the righteous path

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

- adding VG makes the vaporized DMT more effectively absorbed (seems to act as carrier); idk if this is due the higher boiling point and the fact that the vapor is generally hotter if I'm correct

I think it's related to particles size. VG (or mixed PG/VG) has smaller particles size than only PG when aerosolized, which, if we believe this study, might lead to deeper molecules deposition on lungs tissues, thus enhancing substances bio-availability.

In addition, they never add citric acid and state it is not required.

I think the citric acid is a great addition to the process. It definitely softens harshness due to alkaline substances deposit on lungs. Freebase -> citrate conversion might also improve bio-availability if we rely on studies demonstrating better bio-availability of nicotine in salt form vs freebase. It's one of the main points of the DMT salts e-juice, as stated in the original post.

Cheerz

 

[harmalator]

Hello fellow Nexians, I hope this is the right place for my inquiry.
Am I right with my assumption that it would be possible to put a dmt- citrate/PG Solution into a disposable vape (with a plastic pod) without the risk of plasticicers leaching into the Solution. I think the almost neutral PH should prevent that risk.
The reason for the attempt would be that I hardly ever use the vape with the low power (like the ccell disposables) and carts always end up leaking after a long time. Also the "cart-less" vapes are more stealth than the ones with cart- which might be interpreted as (illegal) cannabis-concentrate vapes where I live.
Thank you a lot for all the infos here!

 

[jagio]

Hello fellow Nexians, I hope this is the right place for my inquiry.
Am I right with my assumption that it would be possible to put a dmt- citrate/PG Solution into a disposable vape (with a plastic pod) without the risk of plasticicers leaching into the Solution. I think the almost neutral PH should prevent that risk.
The reason for the attempt would be that I hardly ever use the vape with the low power (like the ccell disposables) and carts always end up leaking after a long time. Also the "cart-less" vapes are more stealth than the ones with cart- which might be interpreted as (illegal) cannabis-concentrate vapes where I live.
Thank you a lot for all the infos here!

I think about why not use an drip atomizer ? Coils, cotton and some drop of liquid.

 

[harmalator]

@jagio i do have a nice setup for vaping freebase juice (istick pico + melo mini2), nevertheless sometimes it is nice to carry a very light, small and stealthy device.