Any idea of the optimal proportions - and are you implying that it's miscible in all proportions?
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No, I wansnt being scientific about it back then, but it did seem like they were mixing together even if the amount of PG/VG was small in comparison to the DMT-citrate.
It would need to be verified though.
Worth mentioning that I ended up with extra citric acid and water in the final DMT-citrate honey. No idea how that would affect its properties.
It would need to be verified though.
Worth mentioning that I ended up with extra citric acid and water in the final DMT-citrate honey. No idea how that would affect its properties.
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Here&Now
Established member
I can certainly vouch for it being the case that added VG decreases harshness. It also helps with avoiding leaks in the cart/pod/tank. I was using 100% PG for a while, and my lungs would be absolutely thrashed after a session. Now using a 50/50 PG/VG mix, it's just minor discomfort if I really get excessive with use.
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Animistic
Established member
Awesome, well I'll have everything together to make up a mix this afternoon so I can begin mixing. I don't want to too much stronger, I quite like the easing in to the space, I just don't want it that much weaker either. With the salts potentially being less harsh than freebase this might be less of an issue as it is.
Testing begins tonight!
Thank you! I've added 1ml VG to the DMT-lactate + DMT-fumarate mix, making it roughly 60:40 PG/VG.
Will try this later today.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Animistic
Established member
Hmm maybe I just didn't wait long enough (2hrs) for the citric acid to dissolve into the 1:1 PG : DMT mix in a heat bath but it seems to not be dissolving anymore with about 1/3 the added citric acid remaining. So I added another 0.25ml of PG to it so now it's 1.5:1 and it seems to be dissolving more.
@ShadedSelf, what ratios of PG to DMT citrate were you using?
@ShadedSelf, what ratios of PG to DMT citrate were you using?
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Unclear given the pressence of excess water, I added around 0.6 parts of 50/50 PG/VG to 1 part DMT-citrate honey.
I kept adding because the mixture ended up being too viscous though.
Also, HIELO gives DMT-citrate in some hydrated form.
I kept adding because the mixture ended up being too viscous though.
Also, HIELO gives DMT-citrate in some hydrated form.
Animistic
Established member
Well I found that the citric acid stopped dissolving so I went to stir it with the syringe and noticed that the citric acid had formed this hard kind of mass, so I broke it up and heated again.
By this time I had added another 0.25ml so now I'm at 2:1, it did dissolve but only with agitation. Some things to note, this DMT had started some kind of polymerization I believe because the juice had started going orangey. Maybe the polymerization affects how easily the citric acid binds? When some more carts arrive I'll try it with carts I've had stored in the freezer that haven't started to go orange and see if it has as much trouble dissolving.
Unfortunately I can't go for the dive tonight but I did have a sample puff, much smoother. I will eventually give some VG a go in the mix but happy with the quality change. For diluting it so much I didn't feel like I noticed the same decrease in potency either but haven't really given it a whirl to test properly yet.
By this time I had added another 0.25ml so now I'm at 2:1, it did dissolve but only with agitation. Some things to note, this DMT had started some kind of polymerization I believe because the juice had started going orangey. Maybe the polymerization affects how easily the citric acid binds? When some more carts arrive I'll try it with carts I've had stored in the freezer that haven't started to go orange and see if it has as much trouble dissolving.
Unfortunately I can't go for the dive tonight but I did have a sample puff, much smoother. I will eventually give some VG a go in the mix but happy with the quality change. For diluting it so much I didn't feel like I noticed the same decrease in potency either but haven't really given it a whirl to test properly yet.
LilyWoo
Not all middle-aged ladies make jam.
Hi, newbie on here, long-time psychonaut (I’ll be claiming a pension some time soon) recent convert to vaping spice.
I’m looking for someone who has a grasp of H1 and H2 receptors involved in histamine responses, and whether these could somehow be triggered or sensitised by DMT.
I have used DMT (vaped) for a while as an ‘instant anxiolytic’ at low doses, and a super-relaxing, mild trip at slightly higher doses. I don’t use it for breakthrough, although I would like to try. (I’m an experienced tripper, favouring tryptamines over phenethylamines and feel that I am missing out on the full experience).
I had no problems with plain, nicotine-free, unflavoured vape juice, and always found that a bath in warm water solved any problems of dissolution (bath for the juice, not me). However, I once ran out of plain juice (I was away for a weekend) and used some flavoured nicotine for sub-ohm vapes. My first draw was fine initially, I felt the spice begin… then I was overcome by itching so intense and all-encompassing, I almost panicked. I recognised a histamine reaction, although I’d never had one before. My assumption (once I could think straight) was that DMT had dislodged any H1 antagonists (antihistamines), and the free receptors had then responded to the synthetic components of the vape juice, or the nicotine. This, I guessed, was what had caused the immediate urticaria. It was truly horrible, the only positive aspect being that it lasted only as long as the DMT. I got in the shower to remove any external histamine triggers like pollen or dust, although I guess that any positive effect gained was purely placebo due to the soothing and distracting effect of water pummelling my skin, and as a result of time passing.
My knowledge of pharmacology is limited; although I spent ten years as a qualified psych nurse, this was not something we encountered in our day-to-day work.
Can anyone explain (or make an educated guess) as to what mechanism might have produced this very strong effect, please? I have since found it difficult to use DMT indoors, even though I always use good quality spice (my own extract) and plain 70/30 e-juice. Once outdoors, it is a different matter. I have never experienced this in fresh air. I have even found that hotel rooms pose no problem (likely because they are cleaned so regularly).
This leads me to consider that the levels of dust and cat dander in our house were somehow involved. I simply cannot work out how it might have happened. Unfortunately, I have very messy housemates and cannot depend on them to keep the place clean. I am unable to do it all myself as I have a chronic pain condition.
Irrespective of your (and my) opinions of those I live with, I am really just super-curious as to how this thing happened. It has happened again since, indoors, but as a result of an unexpectedly strong dose of spice that hadn’t been thoroughly dissolved by the person who made up the juice.
Any ideas, however outlandish, are appreciated. If this should be posted in a different forum, please let me know and I will change it.
Thanks very much in advance.
Lily
I’m looking for someone who has a grasp of H1 and H2 receptors involved in histamine responses, and whether these could somehow be triggered or sensitised by DMT.
I have used DMT (vaped) for a while as an ‘instant anxiolytic’ at low doses, and a super-relaxing, mild trip at slightly higher doses. I don’t use it for breakthrough, although I would like to try. (I’m an experienced tripper, favouring tryptamines over phenethylamines and feel that I am missing out on the full experience).
I had no problems with plain, nicotine-free, unflavoured vape juice, and always found that a bath in warm water solved any problems of dissolution (bath for the juice, not me). However, I once ran out of plain juice (I was away for a weekend) and used some flavoured nicotine for sub-ohm vapes. My first draw was fine initially, I felt the spice begin… then I was overcome by itching so intense and all-encompassing, I almost panicked. I recognised a histamine reaction, although I’d never had one before. My assumption (once I could think straight) was that DMT had dislodged any H1 antagonists (antihistamines), and the free receptors had then responded to the synthetic components of the vape juice, or the nicotine. This, I guessed, was what had caused the immediate urticaria. It was truly horrible, the only positive aspect being that it lasted only as long as the DMT. I got in the shower to remove any external histamine triggers like pollen or dust, although I guess that any positive effect gained was purely placebo due to the soothing and distracting effect of water pummelling my skin, and as a result of time passing.
My knowledge of pharmacology is limited; although I spent ten years as a qualified psych nurse, this was not something we encountered in our day-to-day work.
Can anyone explain (or make an educated guess) as to what mechanism might have produced this very strong effect, please? I have since found it difficult to use DMT indoors, even though I always use good quality spice (my own extract) and plain 70/30 e-juice. Once outdoors, it is a different matter. I have never experienced this in fresh air. I have even found that hotel rooms pose no problem (likely because they are cleaned so regularly).
This leads me to consider that the levels of dust and cat dander in our house were somehow involved. I simply cannot work out how it might have happened. Unfortunately, I have very messy housemates and cannot depend on them to keep the place clean. I am unable to do it all myself as I have a chronic pain condition.
Irrespective of your (and my) opinions of those I live with, I am really just super-curious as to how this thing happened. It has happened again since, indoors, but as a result of an unexpectedly strong dose of spice that hadn’t been thoroughly dissolved by the person who made up the juice.
Any ideas, however outlandish, are appreciated. If this should be posted in a different forum, please let me know and I will change it.
Thanks very much in advance.
Lily
Results are in:
- Way smoother due to the added VG. Thank you for that advice!
- When taking the puffs, a lot of saliva formed in my mouth (like an insane lot), and my stomach started to produce extra acid. This is usually your body preparing for puking. However, due to no stomach receptors hit, there was no nausea and thus no puking.
- The end result still felt not too healthy to the lungs, so I think the DMT-Lactated triggers some allergy and preloading of vomiting reactions by the body (with no actual vomiting).
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Some more tips that I found while vaping e-liquid together with DMT-salts:
Then tips for the come up:
I hope this will help others to explore this very interesting route.
Kind regards,
Kind regards
- 0.2Ohm coil, set the wattage to 16.5Watt. For me on the Geekvape with a Nano Z 2 tank this gave clean vapor with no burned taste at all and I could inhale the whole 10 seconds before the Geekvape automatically switches off, after this, inhale some extra fresh air to fully fill your lungs with some extra oxygen and a better 'landing zone' for the spice.
- Hold in the vapor for about 10 seconds.
- Breath out and directly take another 10 second puff followed with the same extra fresh air inhalation
- Repeat until you have an issue seeing anything with open eyes due to great OEV's.
- Gently stow the vape safely away and lay down in your bed/cauch/cozy spot with a warm blanket.
Then tips for the come up:
- If you feel it's hitting hard, it's usually just your body that is cramped due to the pre-flight anxiety. Just relaxing the body and/or moving it to a more comfortable position will immediately relieve this nasty feeling.
- At times hold your breath for a short period of time (10 seconds max), and breath slowly in and out, DMT space seems to increase when you do that.
- Scrape your throat and cough out any mucus to free your lungs.
I hope this will help others to explore this very interesting route.
Kind regards,
Kind regards
Loveinthedream_
Esteemed member
This sounds quite a bit like the goo that has been known to crash out of CIELO when too much water was in the final salting jar. Has any experimentation been done to clean this product up in the same way CIELO goo has been successfully xtal'z'd? Or any idea if it's salting into full spectrum goo, or just that DMT citrate is always gooey from the air?
Twilight Person
Esteemed member
I think most tryptamine citrate combinations are a goo and mescaline seems to be just a (welcome) oddity? (is HIELO even with CA?)
So I think there is not much about purification, DMT itself can also be just a reddish oil even when pure. Could be that this yellow HIELO honey is just fine!
So I think there is not much about purification, DMT itself can also be just a reddish oil even when pure. Could be that this yellow HIELO honey is just fine!
Animistic
Established member
So I got to have a bit more of a go on my latest mix. One thing I see is I'm using carts whereas at least some of you are using subohm tanks. I'm finding that now I've doubled my PG it's not as potent but not as harsh either. My next mission is to try dissolving citric acid in stronger solutions of 1:1 PG/DMT, especially now that I know to stir it or add it in bit by bit (seemed to form a solid undissolvable mass when it was in there before I added the liquid
It would still go good for a harmala/DMT session though. On the weekend I should be able to give it a really good go.
It would still go good for a harmala/DMT session though. On the weekend I should be able to give it a really good go.
Animistic
Established member
I started out at 2ml:2g:0.7g PG to DMT to citric, definitely not fully dissolved. For those who said it was miscible perhaps it is as DMT citrate but not when the DMT and the citric acid need to combine in a medium of PG. So right now I'm sitting at 3:2 PG to DMT and 0.7g DMT citrate (2 x the amount specified for 1g of DMT in the tek). It seems to still not be dissolving fully yet. I'm reluctant to goto 2:1 PG to DMT but that might just be where I get to with the added citric acid. Other than heat and agitation any other suggestions to get the citric acid and the PG dissolved DMT to combine?
Also I have some VG here but I am reluctant to add any to this mix because DMT citrate isn't soluble in VG (afaik). Would you guys agree on holding off on the VG? I was potentially aiming to use 70:30 PG:VG but think I'll save the VG for when I potentially try subohm tanks.
Also I have some VG here but I am reluctant to add any to this mix because DMT citrate isn't soluble in VG (afaik). Would you guys agree on holding off on the VG? I was potentially aiming to use 70:30 PG:VG but think I'll save the VG for when I potentially try subohm tanks.
Animistic
Established member
Alright, it's all dissolved but I am left confused. With the extra citric acid and the extra 1.5ml added to the mix (so 3.5:2:0.7 PG/DMT/citric) its only taken up 1 additional 1ml th2 cart to the max so I've made an error somewhere, not entirely sure how. Too late here tonight but will test it really soon. I'm keen to see how it goes, the fact it's only 1 extra cart makes me inclined to add a little bit of VG of it's still a bit harsh and see what happens.
What's the total volume of the carts? My guess is that they are capable of holding a bit more than 1mL each since they have to resist leakage from thermal expansion of the juice.
Dissolved substances won't necessarily increase the volume of the solution compared to the initial amount of solvent. Sometimes it even causes the volume to decrease, although I very much doubt that that has happened here.
My '2ml' carts (Nano Z 2) easily top up with 3.5ml. You have the 2ml tank but you also have a reservoir at the bottom where you plug in the coil that in my car fits about 1ml and the rest goes in the cotton I guess?
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Animistic
Established member
Yes this thought had occurred to me. I will test with some clean PG in an unused cart when I get home.
I've been thinking about getting this to work optimally with carts (being able to get the highest DMT citrate to vape juice mix as is more optimal for carts) and have devised a tek going forward. It is sourcing inspiration from the HEILO tek but to work with acacia phyllodes because they're much more sustainable than barks, especially here in the land of Oz. Unfortunately STB teks suck with phyllodes afaik.
1. 100g of acacia phyllodes are boiled in water for 3 x 1 hr boils, tea saved from each boil.
2. Boils combined and reduced to manageable amount.
3. Add lye water to basify tea to ph 13.
So far pretty standard A/B but I want DMT citrate honey at the end result so there's 2 possible paths to explore here.
First path:
4. Pull goodies with ethyl acetate (normally I use xylene at this stage) amounts unclear because I haven't worked with EA before.
5. Add citric acidified water
6. Wait 3 days for DMT citrate honey to settle, siphon off EA, allow any remnant EA to evaporate off and proceed to mixing resulting honey with vape juice mix.
Second path, because sometimes acacia can have other stuff that might gunk up a cart/coil faster.
4. Pull with xylene 3 x 100ml pulls
5. Back salt with acetic acid.
6. Rebasify
7. Add ethyl acetate, decant solvent.
8. Add citric acid and allow 3 days to fully precip
9. Siphon off ethyl acetate, allow any last solvent to evaporate and add honey to vape juice mix.
Having never used ethyl acetate before I don't know how practical it is to use in place of xylene but following the logic of the teks this makes sense to me, only drawback would be the slight solubility of the EA in water. Anyone with more experience shed light on if this is viable or not so favorable. I could always just extract my DMT as usual and then wash with ethyl acetate and add citric acid water.
I've been thinking about getting this to work optimally with carts (being able to get the highest DMT citrate to vape juice mix as is more optimal for carts) and have devised a tek going forward. It is sourcing inspiration from the HEILO tek but to work with acacia phyllodes because they're much more sustainable than barks, especially here in the land of Oz. Unfortunately STB teks suck with phyllodes afaik.
1. 100g of acacia phyllodes are boiled in water for 3 x 1 hr boils, tea saved from each boil.
2. Boils combined and reduced to manageable amount.
3. Add lye water to basify tea to ph 13.
So far pretty standard A/B but I want DMT citrate honey at the end result so there's 2 possible paths to explore here.
First path:
4. Pull goodies with ethyl acetate (normally I use xylene at this stage) amounts unclear because I haven't worked with EA before.
5. Add citric acidified water
6. Wait 3 days for DMT citrate honey to settle, siphon off EA, allow any remnant EA to evaporate off and proceed to mixing resulting honey with vape juice mix.
Second path, because sometimes acacia can have other stuff that might gunk up a cart/coil faster.
4. Pull with xylene 3 x 100ml pulls
5. Back salt with acetic acid.
6. Rebasify
7. Add ethyl acetate, decant solvent.
8. Add citric acid and allow 3 days to fully precip
9. Siphon off ethyl acetate, allow any last solvent to evaporate and add honey to vape juice mix.
Having never used ethyl acetate before I don't know how practical it is to use in place of xylene but following the logic of the teks this makes sense to me, only drawback would be the slight solubility of the EA in water. Anyone with more experience shed light on if this is viable or not so favorable. I could always just extract my DMT as usual and then wash with ethyl acetate and add citric acid water.
EA might be too reactive to use with lye (hydrolysis). An alternative would be to prepare a DMT salt by pulling from lye-based tea with (e.g.) xylene and backsalting, then rebase that with lime paste to pull into the EA for citrate honey precip with minimal xylene residue.