I once tried to source some Lactic Acid on Sigma-Aldrich. Maximum possible was 85 % I think, so I think it cant be isolated 100 % 
-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Research done by (or for) the DMT-Nexus community
Oh wow.I once tried to source some Lactic Acid on Sigma-Aldrich. Maximum possible was 85 % I think, so I think it cant be isolated 100 %
Then going from 80 to 81% is already a win in my humble opinion.
And maybe it's just the idea that counts?
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Animistic
Established member
This sounds really intriguing. I have a few 1ml ccell carts that I can't quite remember the ratio, though it is standard from what I read at the time I was prepping them. Does 500mg DMT/0.5ml PG for a 1ml cart sound accurate? I love using the cart but am not the biggest fan of the freebasey alkaline numbing, harshness of the smoke. I am assuming the citrate salt would remedy this somewhat? I take it I can just add citric acid to these carts, let it dissolve and then I can goto town, right? How much extra volume would the citric acid occupy?
Last edited:
Yes, the resulting DMT-citrate feels very neutral to the lungs. No harshness like with DMT-freebase.
Read his topic to better understand the procedure and with that learn how to create and apply it, and why it is done.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Animistic
Established member
Thanks Trav, I just looked through it again and your post has prompted me to be clearer on what I am asking. The original recipe calls for 2:1 PG to DMT, there are talks of other ratios that involve VG, I don't have any VG and don't plan on using any. I am under the impression that VG isn't necessary?
Since I already have DMT in PG at a 1:1 ratio would I siphon the existing juice out, dilute to to 2:1 PG:DMT and then add 0.3-0.4 parts citric acid? You'll need to forgive me for not being very versed in chemistry. I don't understand how adding the citric acid will affect the volume of liquid I end up with and thus how many extra carts I would need. Based on one post @Loveall says 1g DMT makes 3ml juice but that's with VG added which I'm not using. Unless I need to use VG?
Found my answer in the HIELO tek, right at the bottom, seems I had the right idea. It states:
Starting From DMT Freebase
If instead of MHRB one is starting with DMT free base, simply mix the following ratios by weight over a heath bath:
- 1 part DMT FB (very clean for electronic juice devices)
- 0.35 parts citric acid
- 2 parts PG
I still don't understand how the 0.35 parts citric acid affect volume though.
Last edited:
you can buy powdered LA.
Yes, I saw that as well. The only thing that kept me from getting it is the fear of added things like anti-caking agents etc.
However, the ones I looked at seemed to be pure lactic acid. So I might go to day to my local beer brewer shop to see if they have some lactic acid powder.
Thanx for the suggestion!
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Ok, the test results are in for drying the lactic acid liquid with silica gel and @Brennendes Wasser was right: trying to dry lactic acid with silica gel is pretty much impossible.
This was the process:
Now let's do some calculations:
I then took 10ml directly from the lactic acid product as is, thus without the drying, and waddayaknow...11.984g, so basically the same ~80%.
At least I now know that my product is indeed ~80% lactic acid and that I have to take that into account when creating the DMT-lactate.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
This was the process:
- I filled a jar with a good amount of silica gel.
- I added the lactic acid liquid to the jar.
- I let it sit for an hour.
- I carefully pulled out 10ml in a syringe and weighted the total amount of that 10ml on the mg scale: 11.986g
Now let's do some calculations:
- The specific weight for lactic acid at room temperature is ~1.248g/ml.
- The specific weight of water at room temperature is ~1g/ml.
- (specific weight in syringe - specific weight water) / (specific weight lactic acid - specific weight water) =>
- (1.1986 - 1) / (1.248 - 1) => 0.800806 => times 100 and we get to a percentage of ~80%.
I then took 10ml directly from the lactic acid product as is, thus without the drying, and waddayaknow...11.984g, so basically the same ~80%.
At least I now know that my product is indeed ~80% lactic acid and that I have to take that into account when creating the DMT-lactate.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
The DMT-lactate is now in the e-juice!
I did not have much DMT freebase so I did the following:
And here is the golden result:
I will try this out tonight. I have to remember though that due to having less DMT available it is about 40% less potent than the DMT-fumarate version of my e-liquid.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
I did not have much DMT freebase so I did the following:
- Dissolved 250mg DMT freebase into 2ml of PG.
- Added 120mg of 80% lactic acid to the mix, it immediately dissolved into the PG and seemed to quickly make the liquid look more homogenic.
- Added 0.5ml of VG.
- Added two drops of menthol oil.
And here is the golden result:
I will try this out tonight. I have to remember though that due to having less DMT available it is about 40% less potent than the DMT-fumarate version of my e-liquid.
This is the pH of my end result, it might be a bit hard to see with the lighting but it was in the greenish region:
Kind regards,
The Traveler
A quick update on the DMT-lactate testing:
The taste is not directly enchanting, but also not abtrusive. The aftertaste is better than DMT-fumarate and doesn't linger for such a long time.
Also an interesting observation: DMT-fumarate "cleans" the lungs from mucus while DMT-lactate seems to promote it a little. So one is 'drying' and the other 'moisturizing'.
Overall the DMT-lactate seems to feel slightly better in the end (though DMT-fumarate is not that bad at all).
Breakthrough was no issue with this mixture of DMT-lactate.
I now wonder what will happen with a mixture of both DMT-lactate and DMT-fumarate.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
The taste is not directly enchanting, but also not abtrusive. The aftertaste is better than DMT-fumarate and doesn't linger for such a long time.
Also an interesting observation: DMT-fumarate "cleans" the lungs from mucus while DMT-lactate seems to promote it a little. So one is 'drying' and the other 'moisturizing'.
Overall the DMT-lactate seems to feel slightly better in the end (though DMT-fumarate is not that bad at all).
Breakthrough was no issue with this mixture of DMT-lactate.
I now wonder what will happen with a mixture of both DMT-lactate and DMT-fumarate.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Animistic
Established member
A quick update on the DMT-lactate testing:
The taste is not directly enchanting, but also not abtrusive. The aftertaste is better than DMT-fumarate and doesn't linger for such a long time.
Also an interesting observation: DMT-fumarate "cleans" the lungs from mucus while DMT-lactate seems to promote it a little. So one is 'drying' and the other 'moisturizing'.
Overall the DMT-lactate seems to feel slightly better in the end (though DMT-fumarate is not that bad at all).
Breakthrough was no issue with this mixture of DMT-lactate.
I now wonder what will happen with a mixture of both DMT-lactate and DMT-fumarate.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Sounds promising!
Not a big chemistry buff myself but I find the drying and moistening qualities of different DMT salts fascinating and wonder if it has anything to do with DMT fumerate being solid/crystalline whereas, and I am assuming here, DMT lactate would be more of a goo/liquid.
What's the other 20% in the lactic acid mix could that be causing the moisture feeling on the lungs trav?
The other percentage in the lactic acid mix is water.
However I just added 120mg of the lactic-acid to the mix, meaning that the total liquid of ~3ml has ~24mg of water.
I made three total journeys and the tank is now about half empty (so ~0.5 ml mixture per jouney). Meaning that there would be ~6 journeys possible with the mixture making it ~4mg water per journey.
This gives me the hypothesis that the water did not play a significant role in the 'moisturizing'. Maybe that is also the wrong word, I rather call it creating a little bit more mucus than normal. I hypothesis further and think this is the reaction of the body to clean up the mixture from the lungs.
Another idea that kept popping up in my mind during the journeys was that not all vaporized DMT salt in the lungs is absorbed immediately. After the peak of the DMT I could breath in deeply to get a small step back in DMT space.
Food for thought this all, and tonight I will mix the DMT-lactate mixture with the DMT-fumarate mixture. I got the idea that the lactic-acid made the mixture more homogeneous so I'm very interested in this experiment.
And as the last note, since Sunday I took three journeys with the vape, up till yesterday with the DMT-fumarate vape and yesterday with DMT-lactate. I have very sensitive lungs and still do not feel they are degrading or getting hurt in some other way. N=1 though, so keep that in mind.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Kind regards
Here&Now
Established member
If anybody comes across my question earlier in this thread, I now know the answer is that HCL has a mild taste and is not harsh. Very usable in e-juice.
Yes to the latter point - you might as well see what the maximum concentration of DMT citrate in PG can be. If the citric all dissolves at 1:1 the next thing would be to check whether it clogs the atomiser over time. All being well, maybe it can be pushed even stronger for getting a few more hits per tank, but also I wouldn't want to get ahead of myself on this point.
Lactate and fumarate are both physiological ions as we know. Your observation is interesting - perhaps the hydroxy group of lactic acid contributes to its moistening properties, whereas with fumaric acid what springs to mind for me is its use in treating skin disorders such as psoriasis. That double bond in the middle is hydrophobic and, on another level, implies a 'tightening' quality as I see it.
I look forward with interest to hearing results of trying the mixed-anion juice. It should be possible to push the concentration up a bit by using mixed anions, too.
Interesting and good to know!
I tried the mixture of DMT-lactate and DMT-fumarate and it indeed seems to dissolve a bit more of the DMT-fumarate in the mix.
The puffs though did not feel that nice, about the same mucus as with the DMT-lactate plus a slight harsh feeling in the throat/lungs afterwards.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
I'd be inclined to try throwing in a bit of citrate for good measure, but maybe the high concentration alone is what irritates the throat. Then again, the 'throat hit' is associated with higher PG levels, so perhaps it could be rounded off with the addition of a bit of VG, especially if the concentration of actives has been pushed up a little already.
From my last HIELO extraction, seems like DMT-citrate is actually miscible with PG/VG.
Last edited: