DMT-fumarate also works in a vape, as does DMT-lactate.
The taste of DMT-fumarate is a tad bitter but I can easily get used to it, the DMT-lactate vape taste however is just disgusting to me.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Research done by (or for) the DMT-Nexus community
The taste of DMT-fumarate is a tad bitter but I can easily get used to it, the DMT-lactate vape taste however is just disgusting to me.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Just tried it again with a lower percentage of DMT-citrate in te vape liquid.
So I set the power at 25W to vape faster, three puffs of each 10 seconds long got me into a guaranteed hyperspace breakthrough. The vape was very smooth, much better than freebase.
Someone should politely invite HM to come over here to discuss these facts, it's always best to get all facts straight and just have a solid understanding between all of these new findings.
We also already got a capable harmala-lactate vape liquid, and one of these days I will try the 5-MeO-DMT-citrate, this since the freebase form of it is quite caustic.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
And again a successful launch with DMT-citrate vape, same method. Instand hyperspace.
I think HM is only thinking about the big salt form of DMT-citrate (having relative less DMT compared to pure freebase by weight) and wrong in his assumptions of temperature claims as explained by @Transform since this is all aerosole droplets dragging the actives over. And if there is less DMT in a salt form: just smoalk moar, vaping say 30% more to compensate is easy: take one more hit.
Also DMT salt forms might be faster absorbed by the body, making the whole "less DMT" idea mood since the freebase might be stretched out over a longer time making for a slower and lower peak? I recall DMT-phosphate when taken orally worked much faster than freebase, and the same with DMT-fumarate. 70mg DMT-fumarate orally often felt stronger than 100mg freebase (both with MAOI of course).
Still I think we should be diplomatic and be invitingly to HM to clear this issue up once and for all in a inviting and diplomatic manner. This would also enhance his reputation since he would spread less wrong assumptions around.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
I think HM is only thinking about the big salt form of DMT-citrate (having relative less DMT compared to pure freebase by weight) and wrong in his assumptions of temperature claims as explained by @Transform since this is all aerosole droplets dragging the actives over. And if there is less DMT in a salt form: just smoalk moar, vaping say 30% more to compensate is easy: take one more hit.
Also DMT salt forms might be faster absorbed by the body, making the whole "less DMT" idea mood since the freebase might be stretched out over a longer time making for a slower and lower peak? I recall DMT-phosphate when taken orally worked much faster than freebase, and the same with DMT-fumarate. 70mg DMT-fumarate orally often felt stronger than 100mg freebase (both with MAOI of course).
Still I think we should be diplomatic and be invitingly to HM to clear this issue up once and for all in a inviting and diplomatic manner. This would also enhance his reputation since he would spread less wrong assumptions around.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Someone else posted links to some DMT-Nexus threads in the discussion. This is Hamilton's response.
"Interesting threads, but there are two different ideas being discussed here: aerosolizing salts and evaporation of the freebase. The idea that DMT "smoke" is not a product of boiling but rather evaporation (i.e., vaporization below the boiling point) may be partially true, the inhaled air stream passing over the pool of liquid DMT will continuously reduce the local vapor pressure and facilitate evaporation. That said, in a typical meth pipe and torch lighter scenario, I imagine the bulk of the DMT vapor is a product of the DMT being heated to its boiling point and then the gaseous DMT rapidly condensing into a microparticulate that constitutes the visible white "smoke" you are inhaling. Boiling, evaporation, condensation, and degradation are likely all happening simultaneously to varying degrees during the smoking process.This is pretty easy to experimentally evaluate on a low cost aluminum block melting point apparatus, simply place the DMT base onto the block and heat until you reach the "smoke point" this should give you a more accurate idea of the temperature range where the phase transition takes place. https://www.carolina.com/laboratory-hot-plates-stirrers/simple-melting-point-apparatus/711031.prWhen it comes to volatilizing solutions like a DMT salt (or the base) in propylene glycol things get more complicated and a process analogous to steam distillation may account for part of how the aerosol is generated. "
"Interesting threads, but there are two different ideas being discussed here: aerosolizing salts and evaporation of the freebase. The idea that DMT "smoke" is not a product of boiling but rather evaporation (i.e., vaporization below the boiling point) may be partially true, the inhaled air stream passing over the pool of liquid DMT will continuously reduce the local vapor pressure and facilitate evaporation. That said, in a typical meth pipe and torch lighter scenario, I imagine the bulk of the DMT vapor is a product of the DMT being heated to its boiling point and then the gaseous DMT rapidly condensing into a microparticulate that constitutes the visible white "smoke" you are inhaling. Boiling, evaporation, condensation, and degradation are likely all happening simultaneously to varying degrees during the smoking process.This is pretty easy to experimentally evaluate on a low cost aluminum block melting point apparatus, simply place the DMT base onto the block and heat until you reach the "smoke point" this should give you a more accurate idea of the temperature range where the phase transition takes place. https://www.carolina.com/laboratory-hot-plates-stirrers/simple-melting-point-apparatus/711031.prWhen it comes to volatilizing solutions like a DMT salt (or the base) in propylene glycol things get more complicated and a process analogous to steam distillation may account for part of how the aerosol is generated. "
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Thanks for communicating here - Hamilton would be very welcome to replicate some of the experiments already carried out on behalf of the Nexus:
Chemical Guide to classic Psychedelics (DMT, 5-MeO-", Mescaline, Harmalas, Salvinorin A, ...)
This is a Compilation of chemical properties of the Nexus' members most common molecules to come across. Not all are Psychedelics, but some are just other imporant molecules or derivates. People searching the internet for temperatures to evaporate DMT or similar compounds will quickly stumble...
forum.dmt-nexus.me
Summary of DMT-Salt experiments
This is a summary of experiments that were performed with various Tryptamine salts with focus on crystallinity and evaporation. Goals are to understand the chemical nature of these and find possible applications too. 3 Experiments were done: Part 1: Table of which Salts will have which...
forum.dmt-nexus.me
So I saw that dmt citrate will be stable for six months, does it keep that shelf life when it is mixed into the e juice? I just wouldn't want to mix this up and have it useless if I don't get a chance to use it all. Also, for the honey tek, can MEK be substituted for the EA? I think I actually have that lying around here and might think about giving that tek a shot. Thanks
Unfortunately, you won't be able to use MEK without coming up with a modified method since it is too water miscible. EA is referred to as "MEK substitute" for a different reason, and that does not imply that MEK can correspondingly function as an EA substitute. In the case of the honey tek, you would have to establish that DMT citrate would crash out of MEK after adding solid citric acid, if you even succeeded in getting the MEK back out of the lime paste.
Where exactly did you see the six month shelf-life for DMT citrate - can you provide a link? Properly stored, DMT citrate should last a lot longer than six months. It will always be prudent to use up your e-juice within a reasonable time span, and keep it in the fridge between uses. (It may be necessary to warm it up to redissolve things if it separates out in the cold.)
It wasn't stated as six months, just months earlier in this thread by the member who initially made this tek.
- DMT citrate salt is stable for months
- Must sart with very clean DMT freebase. Any gunk can clog the coil over time. This is a drawback for this method, flame or e-mesh are more forgiving for sloppier extractions. Gunky DMT is OK too, just be ready to replace the coils more frequently (which wastes DMT and can be inconvenient during a long sublingual harmala session).
- As a reminder, a working ratio by mass is: DMT:Citric Acid (using monohydrate from Milliard's): PG:VG 1:0.35:2:0.6. Note: Edited citric acid to a lower concentration for better flavor.
- 1g of DMT makes about 3ml of e-juice
- Edit: A vape/coil with 70W+ is good (e.g. Geekvape zeus max tank with quad coil)
Cheers
If you're particularly concerned about shelf-life, you may have to convert your salt to the fumarate, and make smaller batches of juice. Fumarate (according to @The Traveler ) has a worse taste than the citrate so if that turns out to be a bother for you you'd have to convert back to citrate, or maybe some other better-/weaker-tasting salt. There are losses with each conversion, of course…
Hi
has anyone tried vaping the pure DMT Citrate honey? I'm currently doing the TEK with the end goal of loading up the undiluted honey into a full ceramic distillate cartridge, assuming the consistency is similar enough to canna distillate. Just wondering if anyone has tried this and/or has something to report before I send it!
Safe travels!
has anyone tried vaping the pure DMT Citrate honey? I'm currently doing the TEK with the end goal of loading up the undiluted honey into a full ceramic distillate cartridge, assuming the consistency is similar enough to canna distillate. Just wondering if anyone has tried this and/or has something to report before I send it!
Safe travels!
Have read through the thread - if it's not in this one somewhere there were some vaporization tests done on various DMT salt forms. There may be a link to the relevant thread hidden somewhere in this one.
As a starting point, @Loveall is quoted above as saying the juice needs to be produced from the cleanest DMT in order to avoid buildup of gunk.
You'd also have to be wary of thermal decomposition byproducts of citric acid, not to mention burning the DMT itself. The honey may require diluting down to a useable viscosity, and if water were used for this you'd need to assess the risk of steam burns given the large heat capacity of water.
These are all general comments based on technical knowledge of materials, since this is something I neither have nor would try myself.
Thanks for the input, I am now planning on diluting with 50/50 PG:VG mix. The ratio of 50/50:Honey is still undecided. upon further research I found that citric acid monohydrate does revert to citric acid anhydrous at 78C, which in turn produces harmful by products. I now see that aerosol delivery of DMT is the safest known way of liquid vaping. I will be searching the forum for those salt vape tests though...
I have been scouring this thread in hopes of finding a vape test specifically for the citrate honey hydrate. Guess I'll have to keep keeping myself posted.
I did read this and used it and the "Starting from freebase" section of the HEILO TEK as guidance and instruction to make a DMT citrate cartridge from FB starting material. I used a PCKT SPRK 3 as the atomizer, cold pulled re-x'd freebase crystals, and a 1:0.35:1 (DMT : Citric : PG) ratio (less PG so as not to flood the atomizer as it is deigned for thick liquids like canna distillate) and it worked pretty good! The resulting substance was a rather thick, light yellow liquid and while effective, it did end up flooding the cart a week after preparation. I found that running it at 3.2V on a small 510 mod (variable voltage only) was perfect for what I consider hiking doses, where strong OEVs are desirable, but total loss of self and motor control may not be. the vape was very smooth and tasted much milder than vaporizing freebase by itself, though I started tasting a dank and musty taste after a couple weeks which is probably from the dusty old shot glass I mixed the components in. I knoooow I should've washed it
Overall my goal is to create a liquid device with the maximum amount of potency in the style and dimensions of a (Federally legal) CBD distillate cartridge so it can have the best chances of going unnoticed by prying eyes
Nachooo1
Esteemed member
Just a post to say thanks to Loveall for having the great idea of adding citric acid to the PG mix. I have asthma condition and the vaping experience with PG/VG has been hard for my lungs..initially all was nice but soon after, every time was harder and harder , almost ruining the experience.. Having an asthma attack in the middle of a vaping sesion is a very nasty experience, almost becoming a nightmare until I find the medicine inhaler in the middle of all dmt visions. Same happened me with vaping pure freebase harmine or PEG400 infused with harmala freebase, in this case even much worse than with dmt freebase.
I have used different vaping devices, like vaporesso veco, drizzle, CCell carts etc..but always same problem..for whatever reason the freebase make my asthma start.
Only with the emesh, still dont know the reason, allows me to vape with less problems...but of course I want to use eliquids for different reasons, specially going outside in nature and easy administration.
So I tried the citrate today, in my new geekvape Z fli 0,15 ohm ...and wow...I am in love again...so smooth..my lungs are without any symptom of asthma. Used more or lessthe same recipe that is posted here and found that using wattage is perfect to adjust the potency of experience. 15-20 watts is like using a soft ccell cart, perfect to low doses..30 to 40 watts hit if I want to go deep. Of course I can increase the freebase ratio of the mix but for me 1:2:0.5:0.3 (freebase: PG:VG:Citric) is near perfect.
So thanks again, for this great advance. I was unable to enjoy the vape experience and now all is different.
I have used different vaping devices, like vaporesso veco, drizzle, CCell carts etc..but always same problem..for whatever reason the freebase make my asthma start.
Only with the emesh, still dont know the reason, allows me to vape with less problems...but of course I want to use eliquids for different reasons, specially going outside in nature and easy administration.
So I tried the citrate today, in my new geekvape Z fli 0,15 ohm ...and wow...I am in love again...so smooth..my lungs are without any symptom of asthma. Used more or lessthe same recipe that is posted here and found that using wattage is perfect to adjust the potency of experience. 15-20 watts is like using a soft ccell cart, perfect to low doses..30 to 40 watts hit if I want to go deep. Of course I can increase the freebase ratio of the mix but for me 1:2:0.5:0.3 (freebase: PG:VG:Citric) is near perfect.
So thanks again, for this great advance. I was unable to enjoy the vape experience and now all is different.
The Sofa Traveler
Traveling without moving
Well so I finally tried the dmt citrate e-juice. The aim was to make an e-juice that is smoother on throat/lungs because a friend of mine really struggles with the usual DMT freebase with 50%+ PG based juices, coughing his lungs out each time. Juice was made with the following ratio : 1g DMT/3,4ml 30%PG-70%VG/350mg citric acid. Spice and citric acid dissolved perfectly and the juice didn't precipitate after 48h. First of all I was surprized that it dissolved so well with such high VG ratio (which I increased to diminish PG harshness). Second surprise was that it was quite potent, even if the juice was more diluted than what I usually do (1g/2,5ml PG/VG in average). I might be wrong but I have the feeling that dmt citrate improves bioavailability. Maybe the higher VG amount also helps ? Dunno but the few puffs I had really felt smoother. Can't wait to give my friend a try.
Trials were done with Vaporesso Veco tank clearomiser with 0.3ohms SS316 coils at 22 watts and a Geekvape Z-Max 0.2ohms mesh tri-coil at 30 watts.
I need further exploration with the method but seems very promising!
Trials were done with Vaporesso Veco tank clearomiser with 0.3ohms SS316 coils at 22 watts and a Geekvape Z-Max 0.2ohms mesh tri-coil at 30 watts.
I need further exploration with the method but seems very promising!
Hey everyone, long time since I've been on here but I recently got a nice vape mod and I knew this would be a nice place to get me started on getting the best out of my DMT with it. Thanks for the interesting ideas everyone has shared about vaping and the new salt vaping concepts.
So far I've just dipped my toes into DMT-citrate e-juice. I made 2 quite small batches to compare the harshness of the smoking experience.
Batch 1: 270mg of 40/60 PV/VG (both pure) and 135mg freebase DMT
Batch 2: 270mg of 40/60 PV/VG (both pure), 135mg freebase DMT and ~41mg citric acid
I actually wasn't quite able to get all the citric acid to dissolve even with some heat. This could mean that my DMT measurement was off a bit or maybe too much VG. I'm not sure. What I can be sure of is that both of the batches a very strong and the citric acid batch is definitely smoother despite having very similar effects. My lips are actually still a little numb from testing a couple shy taster puffs of each a couple minutes apart. That only happened wtih the freebase batch.
The strength of both batches is also more than the first batch I made and thoroughly enjoyed using before my pure VG & PG arrived. I'd be fine diluting it a bit in a future batch for regular experiences and have something like this or stronger for a rapid-blastoff experience.
I'll post updates on anything I feel might be useful to people coming to the thread and trying out for the first time like me. As of this moment, I'm mostly a vape newbie.
Seeing the great potential of my new DMT vape and wanting to contribute something after a long hiatus, I will first get my citrate mixing technique dialed in then try another blind test with "jimjam" DMT, "jungle" DMT, and "White" DMT. The last one I did a few years back was interesting, but due to a measuring error with the white DMT ended up being a little odd. My girlfriend rolls her eyes when I mention the blind test, so I'll be blinding myself by changing the randomized coils in a nearly-dark room to make the slight difference in the colors of the vaping solutions very hard to notice. The ETA on it will likely be around 2 weeks, because I want to do 9 tests with just 1 per day to try to make each one as isolated from the effects of the previous one as possible. Hope it goes well.
So far I've just dipped my toes into DMT-citrate e-juice. I made 2 quite small batches to compare the harshness of the smoking experience.
Batch 1: 270mg of 40/60 PV/VG (both pure) and 135mg freebase DMT
Batch 2: 270mg of 40/60 PV/VG (both pure), 135mg freebase DMT and ~41mg citric acid
I actually wasn't quite able to get all the citric acid to dissolve even with some heat. This could mean that my DMT measurement was off a bit or maybe too much VG. I'm not sure. What I can be sure of is that both of the batches a very strong and the citric acid batch is definitely smoother despite having very similar effects. My lips are actually still a little numb from testing a couple shy taster puffs of each a couple minutes apart. That only happened wtih the freebase batch.
The strength of both batches is also more than the first batch I made and thoroughly enjoyed using before my pure VG & PG arrived. I'd be fine diluting it a bit in a future batch for regular experiences and have something like this or stronger for a rapid-blastoff experience.
I'll post updates on anything I feel might be useful to people coming to the thread and trying out for the first time like me. As of this moment, I'm mostly a vape newbie.
Seeing the great potential of my new DMT vape and wanting to contribute something after a long hiatus, I will first get my citrate mixing technique dialed in then try another blind test with "jimjam" DMT, "jungle" DMT, and "White" DMT. The last one I did a few years back was interesting, but due to a measuring error with the white DMT ended up being a little odd. My girlfriend rolls her eyes when I mention the blind test, so I'll be blinding myself by changing the randomized coils in a nearly-dark room to make the slight difference in the colors of the vaping solutions very hard to notice. The ETA on it will likely be around 2 weeks, because I want to do 9 tests with just 1 per day to try to make each one as isolated from the effects of the previous one as possible. Hope it goes well.
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Hey all,
I've been experimenting with the logistics of converting freebase DMT into a DMT-citrate solution quite a bit lately, so let me share some things I've discovered which might not have been mentioned in this thread or the wiki.
I had quite a bit of problems with undissolved citric acid in the solution and I read some posts from TheAwakening about him having similar issues.
I tried the wiki-recommended 1:2:0.35 DMT/PG/Citric Acid (Regular) as well as TheAwakening's 1:1:0.35 DMT/PG/Citric Acid (Strong) but without the DMT as an experiment. My citric acid is anhydrous.
The regular batch of PG was only able to partially dissolve the citric acid at room temperature and with a hot water bath maybe 70-80% of the citric acid dissolved, but not all. When a candle flame was used to heat the PG over 100C then the citric acid very easily dissolved not only in the regular batch but the strong batch as well.
I did the same experiment with VG and although the room temperature and hot water bath dissolved noticeably less citric acid than the PG, when heated with a candle flame it quite easily dissolved in both regular and strong batch concentrations.
It has been 36 hours and nothing has crystalized out of any of the batches.
Heating mod setups or glass vials via candle flame like I (carefully) did is probably not the best recommendation. But since PG/VG & citric acid are very cheap supplies, making something like a 10ml batch on the stove top on very low in a more heat-safe container before transferring it to a vial would be much better. Once this clear solution is made, it should result in a much simpler process when adding freebase DMT. I don't actually have any crystals to test it out with, but it worked fine with gooey DMT freebase converted from a DMT acetate solution.
Although I did smoke some DMT-citrate made during this process and it worked very well after getting the wattage and airflow correct, my current experiments are on hold due to a lung discomfort issue since I switched to my sub-ohm mod setup. I've tried 2 commercial vaping liquids, 4 different PG/VG ratios and a few different vaping techniques with and without DMT but it's still giving me mild but annoying chest tightness for anywhere from 1 to even 6 hours afterwards. I have a diagnosed mild asthma condition, but one that never gave me issues in the past in my everyday life or when vaping freebase DMT. I'm definitely not going to push through it, mild though it is, I will take as long as I need to in order to find a solution.
I've been experimenting with the logistics of converting freebase DMT into a DMT-citrate solution quite a bit lately, so let me share some things I've discovered which might not have been mentioned in this thread or the wiki.
I had quite a bit of problems with undissolved citric acid in the solution and I read some posts from TheAwakening about him having similar issues.
I tried the wiki-recommended 1:2:0.35 DMT/PG/Citric Acid (Regular) as well as TheAwakening's 1:1:0.35 DMT/PG/Citric Acid (Strong) but without the DMT as an experiment. My citric acid is anhydrous.
The regular batch of PG was only able to partially dissolve the citric acid at room temperature and with a hot water bath maybe 70-80% of the citric acid dissolved, but not all. When a candle flame was used to heat the PG over 100C then the citric acid very easily dissolved not only in the regular batch but the strong batch as well.
I did the same experiment with VG and although the room temperature and hot water bath dissolved noticeably less citric acid than the PG, when heated with a candle flame it quite easily dissolved in both regular and strong batch concentrations.
It has been 36 hours and nothing has crystalized out of any of the batches.
Heating mod setups or glass vials via candle flame like I (carefully) did is probably not the best recommendation. But since PG/VG & citric acid are very cheap supplies, making something like a 10ml batch on the stove top on very low in a more heat-safe container before transferring it to a vial would be much better. Once this clear solution is made, it should result in a much simpler process when adding freebase DMT. I don't actually have any crystals to test it out with, but it worked fine with gooey DMT freebase converted from a DMT acetate solution.
Although I did smoke some DMT-citrate made during this process and it worked very well after getting the wattage and airflow correct, my current experiments are on hold due to a lung discomfort issue since I switched to my sub-ohm mod setup. I've tried 2 commercial vaping liquids, 4 different PG/VG ratios and a few different vaping techniques with and without DMT but it's still giving me mild but annoying chest tightness for anywhere from 1 to even 6 hours afterwards. I have a diagnosed mild asthma condition, but one that never gave me issues in the past in my everyday life or when vaping freebase DMT. I'm definitely not going to push through it, mild though it is, I will take as long as I need to in order to find a solution.
You could pre make it in a solvent. EA and citric acid do well to crash out dmt citrate iirc.