DMT, weak (but hungry!) minds and addictions

[Blackandblue]

n-n is not addictive, apparently.
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I don't know how the science of addiction goes, but I understand it something like this (please correct me).

Your self control tries to mediate the psychological addictiveness of something, which is characterised by an interplay of:

the physiological/neurological addictiveness of the alkaloid

AND personal psychodynamic (not sure if I'm using that word correctly, but i don't know any better) constructs

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I personally, am very vulnerable to addictions. I do not like to partake in anything that I will be addicted to and risk not being able to become unaddicted. I have failed to beat every addiction I have fallen and still struggle with gambling (which is purely psychological, of course, not physiological) and alcohol abuse.


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Coming back to my original statement - would you say that DMT is addictive to you? Not addictive as a drug (is it?), but has a strong potential for addiction?

I fear that the answers I get, since they are from active DMT users presumably, are next to useless. Do you have any stories of people who used it a lot than care-free stopped because it was purely for enjoyment and not the pursuit of insight?

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Lastly, I just want to apologise to anyone who has ever read a Blackand post on the sentence structure and awkward wording. Also, for the brackets everywhere. I have a thought disorder. But, I'm also lazy. I can take the time to fix things up as they occur to me, but it's really, really tedious and impractical to do so. Not capitalizing letters and mispelling is honestly just laziness though I have nothing to blame there.

 

[Bezerker]

I wondered this when I first started smoking DMT.
I thought something this good has got to be bad.

But, I learned quickly that DMT CANNOT be abused. It will kick your ass on a cosmic level. The real danger is having a horribly bad trip and never going back to it.

Maybe it happens, but after a night of hyperspace travel, you don't wake up in the morning and want to do more.

Have respect for this moelcule.

Peace

 

[tango]

But, I learned quickly that DMT CANNOT be abused. It will kick your ass on a cosmic level.

Does anyone remember that guy who used to be a big fan of DMT and then, for some obscure reason, turned against it and started posting about how the spice ruined his life.

Technically, everything can be abused. Drug abuse is not when you do a lot of it, it's when it significantly impacts your ability to function. If you smoke crack for breakfast, lunch and dinner but all is good in your life, you're not abusing it.

That being said, uppers are considered some of the most abused substances, and they certainly kick your ass just as far (just maybe in a different direction). People just put up with the nastiness, I don't know how they do it.

 

[Global]

DMT definitely has the potential for addiction regardless of intent. Whether you have a strong genuine spiritual intent or not, the experience (for some more than others) will present itself as something that one enjoys doing, and anything that you feel a sense of reward from has the potential for addiction. You mentioned your gambling addiction. Even though, as you noted, you are not ingesting any addictive substances when you gamble, there is however an endogenous release of dopamine. This is essentially what you are addicted to. It is the chemical of addiction. Even with cigarettes, the nicotine causes a release of dopamine which brings with it a sense of reward that leaves you craving more as it quickly tapers off. IMO anything that is pleasurable is at risk for addiction. And yes, I'm more than familiar with the hyperslaps, but if one is careful, open and respectful, they don't tend to come around so often or in such great magnitudes, and mitigating them is easier for some than others.

Also, in the Amazon, many shamans take ayahuasca daily. Because they do it so often, does not necessarily mean they're addicted either, so there should be an understanding of the difference between high frequency use and addiction and that they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[JacksonMetaller]

Does anyone remember that guy who used to be a big fan of DMT and then, for some obscure reason, turned against it and started posting about how the spice ruined his life.

LOLLLLLL JOE MOLLY!! He now trolls around on the shroomery (where i come from) since you guys kicked him out. He is still spreading anti-dmt/psychedelic messages around.

To be fair he's a very intelligent fellow, but he's a bit extreme. His avatar is Nancy Reagan for gods sakes.

As for an answer to the OP. Yes and no. When I first discovered DMT it was the best/most addicting thing ever. But if you lay off of it for even a day or two you become apprehensive towards doing it. It's almost like you can't remember exactly what happens so you become jittery and nervous about diving back into it no matter how good your past trips were.

I wouldn't be too worried about it though, but then again I'm not you. Aside from a few honeymoon binges drug addiction has never been an issue with me. That being said DMT is a very intense drug, and although it's often a very pleasant one too it takes a lot of mental energy to prepare ones self for it. I couldn't imagine keeping a daily routine for any extended period of time. It also tends to disappear very quickly if you're smoking it frequently. So unless you're extracting a few batches at a time it shouldn't be a huge issue. But like I said, you are not me. It's certainly not something I would want to not do though

 

[Purges]

I remember the whole Jobono / JoeMolloy thing from when I started getting into DMT, certainly made me consider carefully how I would use it... But regardless, DMT for me is not adictive. Sure I think about it and related topics a lot, but only really ingest it 1-2x a month, if that. I respect its power and certainly don't want to be abused by it again LOL

 

[thelastdinosaur]

The rewards or the presumed potential for being rewarded will be what you are addicted to.

From my experience, if you binge DMT, there will be what are called "diminishing returns"

DMT takes care of those who take care of themselves. I've not had a bad trip in a long time and I can say it was because of my new found respect for spice as well as some careful preparations on top of mounds of research and insight right off of this glorious website.

 

[Infundibulum]

Often with DMT, there is a honeymoon period of intense exploration (which includes both amazing and ass-kicking experiences) but them most, if not all users level out and use it much more scarcely, maybe once a month or once in 5 years. That goes for almost every new "toy" people get their hands on. You start learning the guitar, you practice 5 hours a day, but after some time you pan out; you get a new camera, you fiddle with it for a month or so, then you leave it alone, etc.

Often people go from the intense smoking sessions to pharma or aya. I'd be hard-pressed to think of users that developed a chronic wannado-daily dmt habit. dmt is really really anti-addictive.

 

[○]

Agree with inf.

I only smoke 1 or 2 times a month..if that. Ayahuasca maybe 1-2 times every 4-6 months. Due to doing it not that often I typically shoot for higher dosages....just to keep myself in line with respecting the substance and experience. Not that I dont with lower dosages, but just to hammer the point home....keep it fresh in the mind.

 

[damon]

This forum itself is more addicting than the things we talk about here.

Abused, yes, but not for long. Addiction, no.

 

[JacksonMetaller]

Often with DMT, there is a honeymoon period of intense exploration (which includes both amazing and ass-kicking experiences) but them most, if not all users level out and use it much more scarcely, maybe once a month or once in 5 years. That goes for almost every new "toy" people get their hands on. You start learning the guitar, you practice 5 hours a day, but after some time you pan out; you get a new camera, you fiddle with it for a month or so, then you leave it alone, etc.

Often people go from the intense smoking sessions to pharma or aya. I'd be hard-pressed to think of users that developed a chronic wannado-daily dmt habit. dmt is really really anti-addictive.

There is one I know of, on shroomery, who smokes DMT 1-2x a day and has been doing so for months. But he also eats cactus, mushrooms, rc's on a weekly basis. He is a rarity. Aside from this other one I talked to who eats acid, mushrooms, mescaline, aya, at LEAST once a week if not 3-4x. So maybe they're not so rare after all :roll:

These drugs can certainly be addictive for some but I don't think any more so than other pleasures. They're too taxing on the mind. TBH though I could totally see myself tripping on a frequent basis, at least for a period of time. The only thing that keeps me from it is fear of my sanity and the cost of drugs.

 

[Dream2Awaken]

For numerous reasons I went into an every day, 3 or 4 times a day user. Then one day I just told myself it'd be nice to have a break for awhile and cold turkey stopped doing it for about 6 months. There are no withdrawls that I noticed, and while the urge is still sometimes there. It is easy to control. I still do it every couple of months, and who knows maybe someday I will go back to all day every day status. (I was having some good times with my 4D homies and it'd be nice to get back to seeing them more often.) As far as starting it up and having no control over stopping? You really don't have to worry about it.

 

[JacksonMetaller]

For numerous reasons I went into an every day, 3 or 4 times a day user. Then one day I just told myself it'd be nice to have a break for awhile and cold turkey stopped doing it for about 6 months. There are no withdrawls that I noticed, and while the urge is still sometimes there. It is easy to control. I still do it every couple of months, and who knows maybe someday I will go back to all day every day status. (I was having some good times with my 4D homies and it'd be nice to get back to seeing them more often.) As far as starting it up and having no control over stopping? You really don't have to worry about it.

How do your lungs feel after that? I can imagine it takes quite a toll on them as that vapor is HARSH

 

[SnozzleBerry]

How do your lungs feel after that? I can imagine it takes quite a toll on them as that vapor is HARSH

With proper vaporization technique it shouldn't be harsh at all. With a GVG, it's possible to not even realize you're inhaling any vapor.

 

[JacksonMetaller]

How do your lungs feel after that? I can imagine it takes quite a toll on them as that vapor is HARSH

With proper vaporization technique it shouldn't be harsh at all. With a GVG, it's possible to not even realize you're inhaling any vapor.

I use a VG and it is incredibly harsh. I don't mean that smokey feeling you get with weed, but it feels like my lungs are going to burst from the volume of hot gas in them. Also meth and heroin vapor are terrible for your lungs, so I wouldn't assume DMT vapor is harmless just because it's not smoke. It's definitely not the easiest thing I've had to hold down. Even a couple sessions can leave me coughing for the night.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I use a VG and it is incredibly harsh. I don't mean that smokey feeling you get with weed, but it feels like my lungs are going to burst from the volume of hot gas in them...Even a couple sessions can leave me coughing for the night.

Sounds to me like you're overheating your DMT, perhaps to the point of combustion...

Even when I vaped out of a bulb-vaporizer I did not have the sort of side-effects you are reporting.

Also...what do meth or heroin have to do with DMT? I never said anything about DMT vapor being harmless.

 

[JacksonMetaller]

Sounds to me like you're overheating your DMT, perhaps to the point of combustion...

Even when I vaped out of a bulb-vaporizer I did not have the sort of side-effects you are reporting.

Also...what do meth or heroin have to do with DMT? I never said anything about DMT vapor being harmless.

I was just saying that they're harsh on the lungs since some people like to think vapor is harmless. I guess the two don't necessarily go hand in hand, but sometimes I'd assume if it's harsh it's probably doing some damage and visa versa. I guess that's not very scientific, I was just saying that vaping isn't always going to be a clean/painless/harmless method of ingestion like we sometimes think of it. Also I was asking how his lungs felt after all of that so it was kind of relevant since I was talking about damages more than the feel of smoking it.

And I'm fairly positive I'm not burning it. I've had heavy smoker friends who will agree it's not the most pleasant thing to inhale.

 

[Michal_R]

Hi JascksonMetaller,

It is very unusual that you are getting harsh vapour from your VG. OK, you are saying that it is not the technique (too much heat always results in harsh vapour). How does your Spice look like then? I mean: not too clean DMT / too many fats etc. can also result in harsh vapour...

 

[JacksonMetaller]

Hi JascksonMetaller,

It is very unusual that you are getting harsh vapour from your VG. OK, you are saying that it is not the technique (too much heat always results in harsh vapour). How does your Spice look like then? I mean: not too clean DMT / too many fats etc. can also result in harsh vapour...

It's a little yellowish, but nothing out of the ordinary and it's fairly potent. Maybe we should define "harsh." It's "smooth" vapor in the sense that it doesn't scratch and burn my throat like a good bong rip of weed. It doesn't hurt going down so it's not harsh in that sense. What hurts is keeping it down. It feels like my lungs are going to explode resulting in me coughing it up. Obviously smaller hits don't hurt, but it's hard to breakthrough like that. Also keep in mind I'm not a frequent smoker of anything so my lungs aren't used to holding down hot gases.

As for the technique, I pretty much stop holding the flame as soon as I feel it in my lungs so I doubt I'm burning it. It's also incredibly effective and I always trip really hard so I'm fairly positive I'm not wasting anything. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but most people I know aren't a big fan of the DMT vapor inside them.

 

[Global]

As for the technique, I pretty much stop holding the flame as soon as I feel it in my lungs so I doubt I'm burning it. It's also incredibly effective and I always trip really hard so I'm fairly positive I'm not wasting anything. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but most people I know aren't a big fan of the DMT vapor inside them.

It's not a question of burning so much as overheating. Your flame might be too close to the ceramic filter, or the flame intensity may be too high. Additionally, if your VG isn't properly set up to completely stop the DMT from running down the neck, then it will require more heat to vaporize it quickly before it runs off. Also, when I'm holding it in, I close off my throat so even some spasms won't force me to cough it up, and once I've held it in for a few seconds the harshness dies down. Sometimes I clear half of what I fill, hold it down for a few seconds, the harshness goes away and my lungs calm down, and when I clear the rest, I can't even feel it enter my lungs.