TEK Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

[Toshido]

I've been adding sodium carb in bulk then filtering through activated charcoal. Seems to work well but I was thinking about using an inline charcoal filter like you buy for your tap for filtering water. You can buy ones that have only a activated charcoal filter in them. Might be an easy and quick way to filter EA, could even add a pump to the setup.

Unrelated somewhat but I noticed your harmala TEK using EA. How does one put a TEK on the wiki? Do you need to create an account specifically for the wiki and go through an approval process when uploading a TEK? I one day would like to contribute to it.

 

[_Trip_]

I've been adding sodium carb in bulk then filtering through activated charcoal. Seems to work well but I was thinking about using an inline charcoal filter like you buy for your tap for filtering water. You can buy ones that have only a activated charcoal filter in them. Might be an easy and quick way to filter EA, could even add a pump to the setup.

Unrelated somewhat but I noticed your harmala TEK using EA. How does one put a TEK on the wiki? Do you need to create an account specifically for the wiki and go through an approval process when uploading a TEK? I one day would like to contribute to it.

It's a big process Toshido you have to write to the nexus HQ and have your Tek peer reviewed, it costs a lot of money. Then if successfully, you'll be invited to nexus HQ by carrier pigeon to its secret location to front a panel of nexians and Trav himself, you'll then have to prove you understand every scientific process involved in your Tek. The panel will convene and after 100 days of deliberation you'll get your answer as to whether it is wiki worthy. There's a lot of paper work and money involved, you'll have to file a DB991 and a SR223 application just to start the process. It's very political.


There is one other way around the bureaucracy and that is you could just make a wiki account and add it yourself.:lol:

 

[Toshido]

You'll be invited to nexus HQ by carrier pigeon.

I've been waiting for this moment my entire life. I'll make sure to credit your guidance when attaching the reply to our avian flightress.

 

[_Trip_]

Don't forget to file the DB991 and SR223, otherwise the pigeon will be mad.

 

[Toshido]

I was told by Madhattress, who has been having great success with the CIELO tek, that he would do one swirl rotation after adding his citric acid.

The CIELO tek says to NOT agitate it. Can anyone speak to this and confirm?

I ended up returning my Anhydrous Citric Acid and was able to obtain some lab grade Citric Acid Monohydrate so maybe I won't need to do a swirl rotation.

I'm curious though, is there a reason for only dropping it in and not stirring it? Is it because the xtals crash out so quickly?

 

[_Trip_]

I've always agitated it with good results majority can be crashed out in 5-10mins when shaking and the rest over <12 hours or so. I think the tek says don't agitate so you get bigger cleaner crystals? I always use 15mg/ml and agitate with good results.

 

[Toshido]

I always use 15mg/ml and agitate with good results.

15 mg of Citric Acid per mL of EA? A quart sized mason jar if filled up just before the top is about 900mL. With that math that would mean you add 13.5g of Citric Acid to the EA. The tek calls for just 5g.

Is this something we should be looking into? I'd like to know, as I'm adding my Citric Acid tomorrow night.

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It's a shame this stuff congeals after 45 minutes. I wanted to do a 3rd jar.

It congealed pretty bad by the end of my 2nd jar but so far I'm pleased with the process. I love how if you shine a light on it, it's red. But if you shine a light through it from underneath it's green.

The first jar is very, very dark and the 2nd is much lighter as it was difficult for the EA to grab anything as it congealed.

Tomorrow night I shall do my due diligence and check for water on the bottom layer and get to decanting. Thank you all for answering my questions, what a thread this is!

I will be posting my own little thread if/when/after I get some crystals as I've been documenting the whole thing in a similar fashion to my DMT tek. I'll be sure to link it here when finished.

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[_Trip_]

EA holds 50mg per gram (which I believe is .9ml for EA) the original tek had options from 5-20mg per gram. I like using excess and getting the crystallisation happening quicker. Always wash with EA afterwards it'll give nice clean crystals, in addition if you're worried about excess citric acid it'll remove it (not that this is an issue when using 5-20mg per gram). Also if your citric acid is granula grind it into a powder it appears to make the reaction occur quicker as it dissolves faster.

 

[Toshido]

Yeah I figured diffusion would happen faster if it was powder instead of granule.

The citric acid monohydrate I have is quite granular, but at least it's monohydrate.

I'm not worried about crystals forming fast. But maybe I should do 7.5 grams.

Is the amount of citric acid added more contingent on the amount of mescaline/lime perceived to be in the jar? Or is strictly in correlation with the volume of total liquid in the jar?

I know these are stupid questions for a lazy mason jar TEK but I'm still curious.

 

[_Trip_]

Volume of EA, most mescaline I've pulled is 8.7% and 8.3% mescaline citrate from a bridgesii (i used a bit extra EA and it was a good strain). So if doing say a 100g run with a high yeild strain it is sort of dependant on mescaline to citric acid ratio but those numbers are rare. Like I said EA can hold 50mg per gram. Due to the EA being loaded with other plant material I wouldn't go much past 20mg per gram just to be safe, although I'm sure you could. However as stated if you had a high yield strain 10mg per gram would be ideal (although maybe reserve that for bridgesii exteactions).

 

[Toshido]

Volume of EA, most mescaline I've pulled is 8.7% and 8.3% mescaline citrate from a bridgesii (i used a bit extra EA and it was a good strain). So if doing say a 100g run with a high yeild strain it is sort of dependant on mescaline to citric acid ratio but those numbers are rare. Like I said EA can hold 50mg per gram. Due to the EA being loaded with other plant material I wouldn't go much past 20mg per gram just to be safe, although I'm sure you could. However as stated if you had a high yield strain 10mg per gram would be ideal (although maybe reserve that for bridgesii exteactions).

Ok yeah this is pachanoi so lower yields. I ended up doing a middle ground with 7.5g of Citric Acid for about 750mL in Jar 1. Jar 2 consists of 20 percent of jar 1 and was also transferred to a 1000mL beaker so it's a bigger jar and I did 10g citric acid for that one. Will check xtals after work today.

I powdered the citric acid and poured it in without agitating and it made some beautiful swirls. I see some of the undissolved powdered citric acid on the bottom but am guessing that will still diffuse.

Also, I wonder if slowly adding the powdered CA monohydrate instead of dumping it all in would prevent it building up at the bottom. Or if that even matters.

Video of swirls attached. You can see some sparkles in there.

Also, wow what a pain it is to decant from mason jar to mason jar. Much spillage. Next time I'll be doing fridge rests in beakers with spouts and decanting into mason jars or maybe even 2 more beakers. My kitchen smells like a nail salon now.

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[Toshido]

Been 12+ hours and no xtal formation in the jar or beaker, but I see zero water. I don't want to pick it up and shine light underneath or tilt it. Gonna leave it undisturbed for a cpl more days and report back.

25-50% of the powdered citric acid monohydrate hasn't dissolved and is still sitting at the bottom. I feel like I should have done a quick swirl upon adding...

I shall not throw in the towel yet as it seems many people have a tough first go.

 

[Loveall]

Been 12+ hours and no xtal formation in the jar or beaker, but I see zero water. I don't want to pick it up and shine light underneath or tilt it. Gonna leave it undisturbed for a cpl more days and report back.

25-50% of the powdered citric acid monohydrate hasn't dissolved and is still sitting at the bottom. I feel like I should have done a quick swirl upon adding...

I shall not throw in the towel yet as it seems many people have a tough first go.

I think what you are calling undisolved citric acid is mescaline citrate. Rest for 3 days per the TEK so most of it crashes and catch it in a filter.

You decided to deviate from the TEK so I don't know what kind of xtal morphology you will get.

 

[Toshido]

By deviation to you mean the amount of citric acid I used or the fact that I powdered the granules?

 

[merkin]

25-50% of the powdered citric acid monohydrate hasn't dissolved and is still sitting at the bottom. I feel like I should have done a quick swirl upon adding...

You are fine. It's pretty much guaranteed that this is not citric acid based on the amounts involved. I am not sure how fast you added the acid (all at once vs sprinkling it in slowly etc) but if you leave it a day all the citric does dissolve completely. If you are getting crystals this is very obvious as the crystals are very much 'not powder'.

If you add citric fast or all at once you tend to get the same result as stirring, or at least some of it - i.e. powder aka fine crystals.

Also the citric itself tends to land towards the centre of the vessel bottom rather than gather up the sides like in your photo, unlike the crystals which crowd the sides rather than the centre.

 

[Loveall]

By deviation to you mean the amount of citric acid I used or the fact that I powdered the granules?

Both. I think both changes push towards faster xtalization and smaller needles. It could also explain why you saw sparkling so early.

None of it is an issue. I think you have good product, just don't expect it to look like the product from the TEK pictures.

 

[Toshido]

Shame on me. I thunk when I should of thought.

I'm starting to see xtal growth now, but the xtals are small. Better to just use the granules next time and leave well alone.

 

[Loveall]

Shame on me. I thunk when I should of thought.

I'm starting to see xtal growth now, but the xtals are small. Better to just use the granules next time and leave well alone.

What you did is fine, should be no issues just slightly different xtalization behavior. You can use two coffee filters stacked to catch the product in this situation. A single filter still works to catch most of it but may let a small fraction of small needles pass through.

 

[merkin]

I'm starting to see xtal growth now, but the xtals are small. Better to just use the granules next time and leave well alone.

Powdered citric is good imo, not a problem at all. I do that too. Maybe just the speed you adding it into the jar - I sprinkle it through fingers but honestly I dont get too finnicky about it. Essentially, the less you disturb the liquid the more likely you will get nice crystal growth if that's what you're after.

 

[Toshido]

Powdered citric is good imo, not a problem at all. I do that too. Maybe just the speed you adding it into the jar - I sprinkle it through fingers but honestly I dont get too finnicky about it. Essentially, the less you disturb the liquid the more likely you will get nice crystal growth if that's what you're after.

Ok, thanks merkin and Loveall, I'm sure I'm just being classically impatient and nervous as 1) I'm a perfectionist and 2) I only had enough cacti for 1 run. If I'm starting to see something, I'm sure I'll see more.

I just have it sitting high up on a shelf where I won't be disturbing it for a few days.

Will be sure to double filter.