TEK Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

[Quetzal7]

Not to go against Loveall's expert advice but I do admit I've thought the same myself. I think something other than different alkaloids could be responsible, since they occur in trace amounts so far as we know. Luckily the goo is a good base for extracting as HCL and gives the cleanest yields I have ever seen.

I will keep invetigating, now that i manage to get the crystal, we will see if i get the goo again with some of the cactus...
But i thought of something : what if the presence of the crystals in the workspace helps the next batch to successfully crystalize? (unlikely, maybe ... but not impossible ! )

Disappearing polymorph - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In this article i stumble into by casuality the other day, it exemplify a phenomenum
"When the patent for paroxetine anhydrate (the "original" polymorph) ran out, other companies wanted to make generic antidepressants using the chemical. The only problem was that by the time other companies began manufacturing, Earth's atmosphere was already seeded with microscopic quantities of paroxetine hemihydrate from GSK's manufacturing plants, which meant that anyone trying to manufacture the original polymorph would find it transformed into the still-patented version"


Could you quickly describe what's your procedure to get pure HCL from the goo ?
thx!

 

[Orion]

In this article i stumble into by casuality the other day, it exemplify a phenomenum
"When the patent for paroxetine anhydrate (the "original" polymorph) ran out, other companies wanted to make generic antidepressants using the chemical. The only problem was that by the time other companies began manufacturing, Earth's atmosphere was already seeded with microscopic quantities of paroxetine hemihydrate from GSK's manufacturing plants, which meant that anyone trying to manufacture the original polymorph would find it transformed into the still-patented version"

That's crazy, that must have been very costly for them. I wonder how much time and money they threw at it before figuring it out.

About seeding with your existing crystals... hmm... I think I would try it whether you have goo or not, just to see if you can grow fewer but larger crystals. Of course you need some to begin with.... Has anyone tried it just for the fun of it ?

As for getting HCL from the goo it was nothing fancy really. Just redissolve the goo in minimal water, base it with a tiny bit of NaOH, pull it with toluene and salt it with HCL and evap it. Just like an extraction on cactus really. It gives very pure, pale sparkly powder without any waxyness.

 

[jingamin]

Meskalin, sitrik asidi ekleyene kadar dibe yerleşmez. Soğukken bile, meacalin etil asetatta kalır. Sadece kaktüs tortularını atıyorsun.

Kaktüs tortularını filtreledikten ve berrak etil asetata sahip olduktan sonra sitrik asit ekleyebilir ve meskalin zamanla dibe "batacaktır.

Thank you very much for the explanation. @Loveall did not fully understand my question, so I wrote the question more clearly again, otherwise I understood you very well, I am grateful to you.

 

[Loveall]

Not to go against Loveall's expert advice but I do admit I've thought the same myself. I think something other than different alkaloids could be responsible, since they occur in trace amounts so far as we know. Luckily the goo is a good base for extracting as HCL and gives the cleanest yields I have ever seen.

I have a grower friend that has extracted over 30 different cacti types. Only got goo the first time. I came over and we did the TEK together and he never got goo again.

He noticed that different cacti need different water for the same paste consistency. Mainly for different core/skin rario. I would say that is why different cacti may give goo sometikes to some people: they are too close to too much water.

 

[Loveall]

Want to report that there is a way to greatly simplify solvent reclaim by using a magnetic stirrer.

Simply add a tablespoon of sodium carbonate to the used EA and mag stir. Bubbles will form after a few minutes. If they don't, add a teaspoon of water and they will begin to form.

Mag stir until bubbles stop. This takes a few hours but is passive! The solution clouds a little during neutralization (presumably due to sodium citrate forming), but eventually it clears on its own! Remenicent of how it cleans up the mescaline citrate clouds quickly. The mag stirrer does an amazing job

This is so convenient. No water layers at all. The solids either clump or are easily filtered out. So simple.

The EA is now ready for the next extraction. Active work is less than10 minutes.

I'll update the TEK eventually, but this is truly the lazy way of CIELO ️

I'm extremely happy about this as solvent reclaim had become somewhat tedious compared to how fun and easy the main extraction has been.

 

[Loveall]

Tek has been updated after many months.

1) Drier paste reccomendation
2) Add washing soda to fridge rest
3) New mag stirrer reclaim process


Cheers

 

[Loveall]

Macro photo of mescaline citrate from CIELO. Sent to me by a reddit user.

 

[jingamin]

@_Trip_ @Loveall I rested it in the refrigerator 3 times, why does a thin white dust layer form at the bottom at the end of each rest? what is the reason of this. I think I wetted the paste enough.

 

[_Trip_]

Maybe some calcium hydroxide got carried over?, it shouldnt be mescaline. Ive never personally had that happen. I would just decant to get clear Ethyl acetate and add your citric acid so the mescaline citrate crashes out.

 

[jingamin]

Maybe some calcium hydroxide got csrried over?, it shoiodnt be mescaline. Ive never personally had that happen. I would just decant to get clear Ethyl acetate and add your citric acid so the mescaline citrate crashes out.

Loveall rightly told me that this is what happens if the paste is dry. So I added a little more water to this paste and this time my paste seemed to have the ideal consistency.
but it happened again

 

[Loveall]

Loveall rightly told me that this is what happens if the paste is dry. So I added a little more water to this paste and this time my paste seemed to have the ideal consistency.
but it happened again

Are you using gresh EA or regenerated EA?

Regenerated EA needs to be completely neutralized or Calcium Citrate may form duing extraction and very slowly settle out.

If fresh EA, I agree with Trip. Lime is not wet enough and is escaping the paste. If bulk wetness looks good make sure you stir enough to not have any drier pockets (stand mixer is a great upgrade for this). Mixing the lime and the cactus first before adding water can help with uniformity.

 

[jingamin]

Are you using gresh EA or regenerated EA?

Regenerated EA needs to be completely neutralized or Calcium Citrate may form duing extraction and very slowly settle out.

If fresh EA, I agree with Trip. Lime is not wet enough and is escaping the paste. If bulk wetness looks good make sure you stir enough to not have any drier pockets (stand mixer is a great upgrade for this). Mixing the lime and the cactus first before adding water can help with uniformity.

Strange things just happened. I let it rest in the refrigerator for 3-4 days and removed the sediment that settled at the bottom. and I just added citric acid. and I encountered strange particles that I had never encountered before. The truth is, I'm fed up. Because every time I do this, different things happen to me. Even though it's that easy. Now after throwing away the citric acid I don't understand where and why these stupid particles come from. I use clean ethyl acetate that has not been used before.

 

[Loveall]

Those particles could be mescaline citrate.

Allow the xtalization to finish (at least 3 days). Catch them in a filter, rinse 1x with fresh EA and dry them.

 

[jingamin]

Why do they look so strange? I've never seen anyone's jar like this before.

 

[Loveall]

Why do they look so strange? I've never seen anyone's jar like this before.

Two possibilities:
- You did do something wrong and are getting something very different thant expected
- Xtalization can vary from fine powder (low water + mag stir) too needle xtals (2 to 3% watwr, excess citric, slow precipitation) to goo (high water above 3% or low citric acid). Product can look very different for people, especially begginers.

I see you are xtalizing in an open glass container. That is not reccomended, you need to use jars that seal to keep ambient water out.

Put those particles you are scooping up in a filter paper and rinse them 1x with fresh EA. Let them dry. How do they look? If you get a solid powder that is a good sign. If they are sticky/gooey an IPA re-X may leave pure mescaline citrate.

 

[jingamin]

Two possibilities:
- You did do something wrong and are getting something very different thant expected
- Xtalization can vary from fine powder (low water + mag stir) too needle xtals (2 to 3% watwr, excess citric, slow precipitation) to goo (high water above 3% or low citric acid). Product can look very different for people, especially begginers.

I see you are xtalizing in an open glass container. That is not reccomended, you need to use jars that seal to keep ambient water out.

Put those particles you are scooping up in a filter paper and rinse them 1x with fresh EA. Let them dry. How do they look? If you get a solid powder that is a good sign. If they are sticky/gooey an IPA re-X may leave pure mescaline citrate.

Last time there was white powder and I kept it in the refrigerator and didn't throw it away, when I added citric acid it was sticky everywhere. You said I added less water, you were right. This time I increased the water and did it again. I kept it in the refrigerator for 3 days because white powder settled at the bottom every time. I cleared this. Today I added citric acid and mixed it with a teaspoon. Particles immediately started to form as in the picture I added. No stickiness. You think these are mescaline citrate, but does mescaline citrate form instantly? Didn't he have to wait 3 days?

 

[Loveall]

Last time there was white powder and I kept it in the refrigerator and didn't throw it away, when I added citric acid it was sticky everywhere. You said I added less water, you were right. This time I increased the water and did it again. I kept it in the refrigerator for 3 days because white powder settled at the bottom every time. I cleared this. Today I added citric acid and mixed it with a teaspoon. Particles immediately started to form as in the picture I added. No stickiness. You think these are mescaline citrate, but does mescaline citrate form instantly? Didn't he have to wait 3 days?

It can form very quickly when stirring and cold. It depends, there are a lot of other variables - some people on reddit say they can get xtals within seconds. Did you see clouds before the particles?

3 day wait is without stirring. Make sure you read the TEK and understand it.

I think they could be mescaline citrate, yes.

 

[jingamin]

It can form very quickly when stirring and cold. It depends, there are a lot of other variables - some people on reddit say they can get xtals within seconds. Did you see clouds before the particles?

3 day wait is without stirring. Make sure you read the TEK and understand it.

I think they could be mescaline citrate, yes.

The weather was very hot. I didn't make it hot or cold again. They actually looked like clouds, but they didn't stick to the glass. Now let me wait 3 days, then I will show you again. You help everyone a lot, we love you

 

[_Trip_]

Just to reiterate. You can get crystals very fast jingamin, it should cloud straight away when you add it. Crystals can form very quick depending on citric acid rations mg/ml and if you stir, shake etc. But that looks like you got mescaline citrate. Depending on conditions your crystals may form all sorts of different shapes and size.

 

[jingamin]

Just to reiterate. You can get crystals very fast jingamin, it should cloud straight away when you add it. Crystals can form very quick depending on citric acid rations mg/ml and if you stir, shake etc. But that looks like you got mescaline citrate. Depending on conditions your crystals may form all sorts of different shapes and size.

It can form very quickly when stirring and cold. It depends, there are a lot of other variables - some people on reddit say they can get xtals within seconds. Did you see clouds before the particles?

3 day wait is without stirring. Make sure you read the TEK and understand it.

I think they could be mescaline citrate, yes.

I'm sorry but I don't think this is mescaline.
I rinsed it with a little ethyl acetate. Then I dried it. This looks more like lime than anything else. I tasted it and ;
It tasted like calcium oxide , and so did its appearance.