evolution of man gone wrong

[Jin]

few thousand years back man learnt how to create fire , today we have fire extinguishers

few thousand years back man came out of the jungle , today many want to go back

from ages man has been cutting down trees and de-foresting environment , today many are trying to protect it

300 years back or so man found smoking tobbaco , today many are trying to quit

100 years or so man started using crude oil , today many are looking for alternatives to this

70 years or so back man came up with nuclear weapons , today many are trying to control it and prevent its misuse

man has done so much , today many are trying to sit still and meditate

has it ? has man's evolution gone wrong ?, no doubt the issues are serious but they look funny to me , since man has done so much over the ages rather than chilling in this beautiful ennviornment , eating fruits and having a good time , is it restlessness thats mans problem ?

we have a planet where all is provided for since we have air,water,land to live on and food given to us for free by nature , if nature takes back these 4 things basically all our science and tech is useless

why are we so bored that we will do endlessly rather than pause , chill and have a good time , why must we do something almost all of the time from moment we wake up to moment we sleep we keep doing something or the other , brush your teeth , have a shower , wear clean clothes , go to work , work on shit that doesnt matter , drive home , watch telivision , eat food , go to sleep

man has done so much to make life easy , did it has it become easy , isn't man working more now (9 to 5 everyone ) just to sustain his way of life , when all that mattered in the past was to eat a fruit or hunt a prey

wtf is this a joke , cant a human just be , rather than having to do ?
how do we do it ? how do we do nothing ? why must we always be doing ? how do we undo our doing ?
cant we relax forever ? will this lead to enlightenment ? when will we be free ? free , free , free , free yes that would be a way to be (shpongle's track says it all )

peace everyone ,

 

[benzyme]

'enlightenment' seems to be tossed around as a pretentious catch-all term nowadays,
perhaps people mean 'awareness', which many people already are.

the issue is status quo.

also, adaptations don't occur overnight, they occur over generations. this dictates the course of evolution, and usually, it's a consequence of environmental changes.

entropy in nature may threaten power systems which drive scientific applications, but it will not eradicate the knowledge already gained. 8)
as long as the critically-thinking inquisitive mind exists, so will science.

 

[SWIMfriend]

What has always interested me is that (apparently) no matter WHAT man has done (or even what any PARTICULAR man has done!) there seems to be not much change in overall "happiness."

i.e., people seem very good at finding ways to make themselves miserable: they're miserable when they have to wash clothes in a river--and they're miserable when they have to buy laundry detergents, worry about color fading or shrinkage, and load their washing machines and have to worry about choosing the optimum wash cycle...

 

[Crazyhorse]

wtf is this a joke , cant a human just be , rather than having to do ?

I like to try to find an equal balance of both,
So that life goes like this:

DoBeDoBeDoBeDoo!

 

[universecannon]

heheh...reminds me of this funny pic: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/530888_493384157349267_160141086_n.jpg


anyways..i'd generally agree something has gone awry. although im extremely optimistic about all of this, and i think its all unfolding as it should

I think the evidence of people like weston price and tony wright clearly indicate that we're all suffering from a form of epigenetic damage, which has a dramatic affect on our current state of perception. countless cultures have "myths" about a previous high point of humanity, and the fall of mankind. imo it seems there actually scientific evidence supporting such a scenario..

http://leftinthedark.org.uk/sites/default/files/Left%20in%20the%20Dark%20free%20edition.pdf

 

[VIII]

Care killed the cat.
Curiosity killed the cat.

I agree with Benzyme about the status quo. I also believe the fact that we don't know what purpose we have here brought about much improvisation. The fact remains we still do not know what we are doing here.

We are but a speck in the large systems that govern this place in existence. We seem to be doing pretty well at destroying the systems within our reach. Then again we are also creators of and contributors to many systems.

To be is not what existence intended. Existence intended to be more.

 

[smokerx]

few thousand years back man learnt how to create fire , today we have fire extinguishers

That is quite good invention in my opinion But I understand where you are coming from. There are many different types of extinguishers but the worst ones are the one to extinguish your burning heart.

few thousand years back man came out of the jungle , today many want to go back

That is understanding, people want to go back to nature. They feel it is right thing to do.

from ages man has been cutting down trees and de-foresting environment , today many are trying to protect it

Trust me it is only minority. Most of the people on this planet don't give a fig about it.

300 years back or so man found smoking tobbaco , today many are trying to quit

Thanks god for that

70 years or so back man came up with nuclear weapons , today many are trying to control it and prevent its misuse

One thing is what they say and the other is the truth. They say they are trying to prevent misuse but the only thing they trying to do is control energy market. Corporations will not allow any country to make free or very cheap energy. Look what they are doing to Iran. It ok for Israel or US or UK to have nuclear weapons but it is not ok for Iran.

has man's evolution gone wrong?

Definitely don't know but the society man created does not look and feel any good. I have to say I hate it my self and I am trying hard to make sure I have nothing to do with it. I hope I will be able to disconnect from it for ever and live independent life till I die without some uneducated law enforcement person telling me what is right and wrong.

man has done so much , today many are trying to sit still and meditate

Is that something wrong ?

man has done so much to make life easy , did it has it become easy , isn't man working more now (9 to 5 everyone ) just to sustain his way of life , when all that mattered in the past was to eat a fruit or hunt a prey

Well we will have to chose which path is better. We all can chose what we like. Id like to live in nature and as you said it eat fruit and hunt if needed. Hope one day I will be able to do that. Today it is almost impossible to live independently from our society without braking some stupid law.

wtf is this a joke?

I am afraid it is , so lets have a good laugh, wake up and start living

 

[Aegle]

entropy in nature may threaten power systems which drive scientific applications, but it will not eradicate the knowledge already gained.

Benzyme

Though intriguingly entropy is a true paradox of nature as order is produced by an increase in entropy.


Much Peace and Respect

 

[Citta]

entropy in nature may threaten power systems which drive scientific applications, but it will not eradicate the knowledge already gained.

Benzyme

Though intriguingly entropy is a true paradox of nature as order is produced by an increase in entropy.


Much Peace and Respect

Meh, it is not really a true paradox of nature. The entropy in the universe is increasing at large, but it is no surprise that order arises locally in certain regions - this is simply statistics, it is bound to happen. For example, imagine you are not so tidy and need to really clean up your house. There is a high amount of entropy (disorder) inside, and a low amount outside. So you start taking out the garbage and clean up, moving everything outside in your garden instead. Now, the entropy decreases locally (inside), but globally (outside) the entropy increases. The same applies to the universe, so the bottom line is that the real paradox would be if no order were produced by an increase in entropy at large, not that order arises locally by an increase in entropy at large.

 

[Infundibulum]

entropy in nature may threaten power systems which drive scientific applications, but it will not eradicate the knowledge already gained.

Benzyme

Though intriguingly entropy is a true paradox of nature as order is produced by an increase in entropy.


Much Peace and Respect

Meh, it is not really a true paradox of nature. The entropy in the universe is increasing at large, but it is no surprise that order arises locally in certain regions - this is simply statistics, it is bound to happen. For example, imagine you are not so tidy and need to really clean up your house. There is a high amount of entropy (disorder) inside, and a low amount outside. So you start taking out the garbage and clean up, moving everything outside in your garden instead. Now, the entropy decreases locally (inside), but globally (outside) the entropy increases. The same applies to the universe, so the bottom line is that the real paradox would be if no order were produced by an increase in entropy at large, not that order arises locally by an increase in entropy at large.

This is true; systems exist in nature where order arises by very simple mechanisms without being antithetical to entropy; mineral sedimentation (such as one seen in lake and ocean floors with larger rocks orderly found at bottom layers and sand found in upper layers) just happens by gravity alone.

In other systems, like living organisms high orders of organisation come by creating an awful lot of entropy elsewhere. i.e., to make or maintain an organism the net amount of entropy is more.

 

[Aegle]

"This local increase in order is, however, only possible at the expense of an entropy increase in the surroundings; here more disorder must be created."

This is what I am referring to when I say a paradox of nature...


Much Peace and Respect

 

[Jin]

What has always interested me is that (apparently) no matter WHAT man has done (or even what any PARTICULAR man has done!) there seems to be not much change in overall "happiness."

i.e., people seem very good at finding ways to make themselves miserable: they're miserable when they have to wash clothes in a river--and they're miserable when they have to buy laundry detergents, worry about color fading or shrinkage, and load their washing machines and have to worry about choosing the optimum wash cycle...

this is really what i am trying to convey through this post , i am hoping man being such an intelligent creature having invented so much , learnt so much , experienced so much will eventually evolve into ways of happiness ,

mankind's evolution will be complete then , no doubt evolution has not really gone wrong - i understand that still its not enough if we can't really be happy with all our tech , science , art , music , much of the general human population is very sad the way i see it , i only see most people running through their lives , hurrying and worrying all the time , with mostly a frown on their faces , missing the beauty that surrounds us

these days i have to control my laughing and smiling face and put on a neutral expression as most people somehow dont like it some of the humans are infact angered by it , somehow some people are so frustrated with lives these days they can't even tolerate happiness,

should'nt man realize , invent or whatever so it can be happy all the time , i believe we will have truly evolved then , we could then really appereciate our intelligence , we would maybe then realize that earth is our home and the sky is our roof , plants and animals are our friends , would'nt then we break down all the walls - that are only meant to separate , would we not come together and sit around a fire smoking our changa

i hope a day will come when all of mankind , animal kind , tree-plant kind , all of the universe will be filled with freedom , joy , awareness , bliss at the same time when all will be in synchroncity and all will be good ,

maybe the day has already come , maybe its happening right Now , maybe most humanity is just missing it dazed and confused , worried and afraid , working and sleeping , maybe people are just asleep , sleeping to the beauty of the experience , sometimes i feel like licking the sky , sometimes i feel like kissing the earth , sometimes i wish i can hug all existence all of the unviverse , say thank you and greet it with a smile (maybe i am already doing that :d )

i know most nexians are very evolved and happy , i am only talking about most of the general population , it makes me sad to see their miserable condition (not really too sad since i have started laughing on all of it , since man being so intelligent is still unhappy , drives me insane with laughter just to know it since most humans claim superior intelligence and yet are unhappy , i hope mankind can find the intelligence to laugh and smile more )

peace everyone

 

[jamie]

How do you learn to walk if you never fall down?

How do you understand the importance of happiness if you never experience saddness?

How can you learn what works until you learn what does not?

 

[Vodsel]

@Jin - besides what jamie said, that heavenly idea of a happy universe full of joy seems a little out of touch with reality. Not our current social reality, surely more flawed than it could be, but out of touch with how things work.

It's like that old image of the lion laying down with the lamb. That won't happen in this universe, where there's a cycle of eating and being eaten, comfort and pain, doesn't matter if you are a human, a lion, a lamb, a potato, a worm living off the carcass of the dead lion or an archon living off the fear and belief of hyperdimensional travelers.

Ignoring the reality of pain leaves you with half life, or not even that. A whole life has to integrate and accept those facts. No evolution that shuts down that awareness for you would be worth it.

"This local increase in order is, however, only possible at the expense of an entropy increase in the surroundings; here more disorder must be created."

This is what I am referring to when I say a paradox of nature...
Much Peace and Respect

Aegle, Citta and Infundibulum are actually right in this. Entropy is a measure in the whole system, and in our universe/nature it's increasing. The laws of thermodynamics are clear in this, as you know. Then, you have parts of that system (for instance, a living being) that are able to produce order, and the price for that is an increase in the entropy of the surroundings, a production of disorder in compensation, like emission of heat and waste. You could say that living beings feed on negative entropy, but the overall amount of entropy in the whole system keeps increasing.

And there's no paradox in this. A paradox involves a contradiction within a statement, or a system, and there's no contradiction in how thermodynamics work. You will only find different "arrows of time" or different tendencies in entropy if you consider the parts of the system in an isolated way, but they are parts of a whole.

 

[Aegle]

Vodsel

Paradox as in disorder creating order...


Much Peace and Understanding

 

[Vodsel]

Aegle

I don't want to enter a semantics game, but the way you express it, it would only be a paradox if disorder was complete. But there's no such thing as total disorder in nature. There's order in geometry and in the physical laws present in the little parts of the system.

Forget about entropy, take a desert, or the sea. Grains of sand, or drops of water, can develop major ordered structures like dunes or waves. And that's a result of the wind plus the structures (the order) already present in the crystals of sand and the water molecules.

You might rephrase what happens as "not-so-obvious or concealed order becoming obvious in a superior level" thanks to external agents and their interaction with the properties of the little parts of the system.

And excuse me if I get thick, happens to me a lot these days.

 

[daedaloops]

these days i have to control my laughing and smiling face and put on a neutral expression as most people somehow dont like it some of the humans are infact angered by it , somehow some people are so frustrated with lives these days they can't even tolerate happiness,

I've noticed this very same thing, people get angry when they see someone who is happy. There are exceptions ofcourse but if I am on an ayahuasca afterglow and I just can't help it, smiling and laughing at the absurdity of all this, most people just look at me like they wanna call the cops. "Take this happiness out of my face and lock it up somewhere so I don't have to deal with it." So most of the time I just try to look neutral and stressed so I can fit in, with a shield around my thoughts and emotions, like a true sociopath.

@Jin - besides what jamie said, that heavenly idea of a happy universe full of joy seems a little out of touch with reality. Not our current social reality, surely more flawed than it could be, but out of touch with how things work.
..
Ignoring the reality of pain leaves you with half life, or not even that. A whole life has to integrate and accept those facts. No evolution that shuts down that awareness for you would be worth it.

I've been thinking alot about this lately. Do we really want a world with just happiness? I mean we all feel like we prefer happiness over sadness, and we want everyone to be happy, but does that even make any sense? If you remove pain and sadness from the equation, you'll have no idea what pleasure and happiness mean. Or actually you can never remove anything, so it would be more like setting the default floor and roof levels higher on the sad/happy -scale, so in a world with just happiness the person who is only slightly happy would be considered to be sad, and the person who is superhappy would be considered just happy. So in that world people will still feel like they need to improve the overall happiness, the floor and roof levels getting higher and tighter, so where do you draw the line? Is ultimate happiness some sort of goal that we need to reach, and what happens then? Is the journey over?

I don't want the journey to be over, I love the journey with all its fluctuating dualities. I love to be happy and I love to be sad. I love excruciating pain as it's the only thing that tells me what pure ecstasy is. It's just my body who prefers the other signals more than the others, but not me. I want it all.

 

[Aegle]

Vodsel

No worries, I agree with you though I cant just forget about entropy as this is exactly what I am referring to...


Much Peace and Kindness

 

[Jin]

How do you learn to walk if you never fall down?

How do you understand the importance of happiness if you never experience saddness?

How can you learn what works until you learn what does not?

its true maybe its necessary to have the night and the day , maybe a balance is required
perhaps my expectations are unnecessarily high

Entropy is a measure in the whole system, and in our universe/nature it's increasing. The laws of thermodynamics are clear in this, as you know. Then, you have parts of that system (for instance, a living being) that are able to produce order, and the price for that is an increase in the entropy of the surroundings, a production of disorder in compensation, like emission of heat and waste. You could say that living beings feed on negative entropy, but the overall amount of entropy in the whole system keeps increasing.

could this also apply to happiness , as in a human (being a part of a system creating order) can continually be happy while there is an increase in the sadness of surroundings , just kiddin:grin:
on second thought perhaps this is already happenin , jus kiddin again

thank you guys for replying to the post , an extraction is in progress , will report later
peace everyone
smoke changa:thumb_up:

 

[daedaloops]

could this also apply to happiness , as in a human (being a part of a system creating order) can continually be happy while there is an increase in the sadness of surroundings , just kiddin:grin:
on second thought perhaps this is already happenin , jus kiddin again

That actually makes sense , and it reminds me of a vision I had on aya about a year ago. It was like the surface of a massive orb, assumed to be earth, was covered with all these tiny dots. Most of the dots were gray, but there were light and dark peaks here and there. The light peaks were attracting other light dots, and the dark ones were attracting dark dots. There were many little peaks but the huge peaks were extremely rare. In fact, the size of the peak directly corresponded to its frequency on the surface. (attached a pic of it)

I interpreted it in the way that those dots were people, and at the center of those huge light peaks were people like jesus, buddha, gandhi and the very dark peaks had like hitler, stalin, bush. And the smaller peaks had like your everyday heroes/murderers. And most people were just kind of gray, asleep. So good people are attracted by other good people so according to their perspective the world might seem overall a nice place, but it's just because they can't accurately observe the dark peaks. In reality the total sum is always zero. And now thanks to the internet we can observe the both sides better, and people are forced to get out of their gray slumber and pick a side. What will it lead to? Just 2 massive peaks and everyone belongs to either one? Will earth look like one big yin-yang symbol eventually?

Yeah that's kinda naive interpretation for it, but it made sense at the time. Maybe the concepts of good and evil don't even exist. And who's to say jesus wasn't really an evil person and hitler a good one? Maybe we all just have inverted subjectivity glasses on..