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Geometry of DMT crystals
- Thread starter CaptainFuture
- Start date
Pscientist
Organic Spirit Hybrid
I in no way read the entire thread, I read a lot of the discussion regarding crystals, storing information and the potential differences in experience regarding DMT crystal structure.
Firstly, I tend to err on the side of science, I believe once vaporized it is all DMT molecules however I believe there are intrinsic properties that can be duplicated among crystals, thereby storing information due to imperfections caused by the environment (early mutations of crystal structures). This is the proposed crystal theory of the origin of life , essentially that DNA may have somehow arisen from replicating crystal structures, and many imperfections over vast time created an arrangement of molecules that somehow formed RNA-->DNA.
Most importantly is the fact that tiny imperfections in crystals are repeated due to the nature of the formation of crystals, and this may affect the "information" stored within the crystal be it DMT or carbon and how the rest of the crystal may interact with its environment.
Richard Dawkins explains this theory of the origin of life much better than I can in "The Blind Watchmaker" if anyone's interested.
In short, I think crystals may potentially have the ability to store information about their formation (and who knows what else) apart from the molecular structure that comprises the crystal. The arrangement makes the structure, but the structure determines the information.
This is all speculation, just thought I would contribute my 2c.
Firstly, I tend to err on the side of science, I believe once vaporized it is all DMT molecules however I believe there are intrinsic properties that can be duplicated among crystals, thereby storing information due to imperfections caused by the environment (early mutations of crystal structures). This is the proposed crystal theory of the origin of life , essentially that DNA may have somehow arisen from replicating crystal structures, and many imperfections over vast time created an arrangement of molecules that somehow formed RNA-->DNA.
Most importantly is the fact that tiny imperfections in crystals are repeated due to the nature of the formation of crystals, and this may affect the "information" stored within the crystal be it DMT or carbon and how the rest of the crystal may interact with its environment.
Richard Dawkins explains this theory of the origin of life much better than I can in "The Blind Watchmaker" if anyone's interested.
In short, I think crystals may potentially have the ability to store information about their formation (and who knows what else) apart from the molecular structure that comprises the crystal. The arrangement makes the structure, but the structure determines the information.
This is all speculation, just thought I would contribute my 2c.
CaptainFuture
Rising Star
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This is crazy synronicity because I was just recently noticing that there seemed to be somthing about the diamond shaped crystals....
I got diamonds by slow evap re-exing using naptha..
Peace!
EDIT: I can't believe I never really noticed this thread until now.... it's really facinating..
The first logical questions I have, that come to mind are.....
assuming there is some type of "information" in the crystal
how does the molecule store information after the crystals have been crushed?
I don't need a scientific explanation but I just wonder where the information is stored so to speak?
I got diamonds by slow evap re-exing using naptha..
Peace!
EDIT: I can't believe I never really noticed this thread until now.... it's really facinating..
The first logical questions I have, that come to mind are.....
assuming there is some type of "information" in the crystal
how does the molecule store information after the crystals have been crushed?
I don't need a scientific explanation but I just wonder where the information is stored so to speak?
wonder if anyone has done a m.p. test on crystals...
what m.p. range has been noted?
I've noted 41 - 44 C.
what m.p. range has been noted?
I've noted 41 - 44 C.
yes, I know it's been referenced in lit.
I'm talking about our members
I'm talking about our members
CaptainFuture
Rising Star
Eliyahu said:
I really can't tell with my mind, its just that spiritually there is a difference.
Good to ask this question since that way the thread got bumped back to the top.
Cause after being printed on a poster at a dutch entheogenic conference recently my crstal grows seem to be quite a thing to share.
Much love, my fellow beings and take care,
Cap
Thank you brother. I was wondering if you've grown any more "diamonds"? Have you been successful in re-creating their Sacred geometry? If so, can you point out some of the primary enhanced aspects you perceive from vaporizing the diamond-shaped, crystalline geometric variants of NN-DMT? Thanks again for sharing your extraordinary experience!
CaptainFuture said:
you're comparing the conversion of electrical-mechanical energy to intramolecular energy in crystal formation? not an accurate comparison.
DMT crystals favor the lowest internal energy (equilibrium) of formation, exciting them does nothing for enhancing purity. it causes them to melt.
as was mentioned by Infundibulum and OlderROM's attachment, DMT has rotatable bonds flanking the alpha and beta carbons (this is not necessarily unique to DMT, it's inherent to tryptamine), thus it's possible for various crystal formations, no formation any more pure than others.perhaps this is why there are several mp/bp ranges reported.
Attachments
Can the differently-rotated bonds result in different binding to receptors and therefore changes in pharmacology?
Not really, because these differently-rotated are only fixed in a crystal structure; in solution however you get all the possible combinations as the bonds are freely to rotate as they please.endlessness said:
A crystal can have, as mentioned by benzyme, different melting temperatures owning to how the molecules are fixed in it, so it is possible that some crystal structures to appear "more active" per weight if they have the tendency to vaporise easier than others.
In a way it is fun to speculate, but let us not forget that we are speculating over CaptenFuture's subjective, non-blind, non-controlled and biased reports that the diamond crystals provide a "different" experience. In a way we're mentally masturbating over poor, unconfirmed rumours.
CaptainFuture
Rising Star
Yeah, thats why I motivated everyone to start growing crystals and trying to crystalize diamonds out of it.
I am meanwhile pretty sure that its a matter of purity to form them. They always showed up with the lime-tek extracts. And they were always the purest I've got out.
I haven't smoked DMT in a while but when the whole topic started were doing it a few times a week, so I did not easily wrote about my experiences with the solid crystals.
Anyway, just wanted to bump up the thread again, I guess.
I didn't read the entire thread and dont't know if this was brought up to the conversation, but if I may add..
As a geologist, I learned that real diamonds are formed in high temperature and very high pressure locations underground the earths crust. Generally they are very pure materials based on the carbon element. The higher the purity, the higher the hardness and density of the crystal. Graphite as you know is also carbon but the molecular \ atom structure is not aligned in the optimal way for best hardness, but aligned good enough for it to be stable at the temperature and pressure where it was formed. Diamonds at normal pressure and temperature are not stable, but need millions of years to transform to graphite.. for example.
My case is that I would suggest to make a experiment to see if crystal structure of DMT would change depending the pressure and temperature condition. Temperature must be low for the crystals to precipitate, right? But maybe putting more pressure would add a new condition.
Maybe the fact that the crystals are formed at different atmospheric pressure caused in the summer vs winter times, do make a difference in the crystal structure formation. I'm thinking about a bottle that was slightly heated and then filled with solvent with dmt. Bottle would be closed and put inside the friezer(?) to precipitate. This would create a negative pressure (in relation to normal atmospheric pressure) and cause maybe more fluffy crystals. It would be interesting to have a control outside, precipitating also at low temperature but normal pressure.
High pressure -> denser structure aka diamonds , Low pressure -> less dense structure aka fluffy crystals.
As a geologist, I learned that real diamonds are formed in high temperature and very high pressure locations underground the earths crust. Generally they are very pure materials based on the carbon element. The higher the purity, the higher the hardness and density of the crystal. Graphite as you know is also carbon but the molecular \ atom structure is not aligned in the optimal way for best hardness, but aligned good enough for it to be stable at the temperature and pressure where it was formed. Diamonds at normal pressure and temperature are not stable, but need millions of years to transform to graphite.. for example.
My case is that I would suggest to make a experiment to see if crystal structure of DMT would change depending the pressure and temperature condition. Temperature must be low for the crystals to precipitate, right? But maybe putting more pressure would add a new condition.
Maybe the fact that the crystals are formed at different atmospheric pressure caused in the summer vs winter times, do make a difference in the crystal structure formation. I'm thinking about a bottle that was slightly heated and then filled with solvent with dmt. Bottle would be closed and put inside the friezer(?) to precipitate. This would create a negative pressure (in relation to normal atmospheric pressure) and cause maybe more fluffy crystals. It would be interesting to have a control outside, precipitating also at low temperature but normal pressure.
High pressure -> denser structure aka diamonds , Low pressure -> less dense structure aka fluffy crystals.
DMT is such a sacred chemical i definatly feel that some batches have a greater spirit inside them i had 3 different type of crystals and each one consistently provides a different experience and im not talking about intensity and of coarse it cannot be scientifically explained im mean common trying to explain profound experiences scienfically is just silly IMHO explain why 2 people can share the exact same experience together. with psycho actives ther is more than meats the eye
kiang said:
Fascinating. Defenitely like the negative pressure-experiment you proposed.
With Negative pressure I guess you mean a partial vacuum?
I'm guessing, since the density would be much lower, the fluffy crystals might make them alot more active than dense dmt crystals, having alot more surface area then dense crystals.
I guess that fluffy structure would distribute applied heat much more evenly and vaporise alot faster and more completely.
By this logic, if you were to evaporate a DMT-saturated solvent in a high pressure enviroment(relative to ambient pressure levels), you should get very dense, hard DMT crystals, right? Great to know that pressure affects crystal density.
Is pressure also the sole influence on the crystal's shape?
Or are there other factors involved in the shape of growing Crystals?(Other than purity)
keleblin
Rising Star
kiang said:
Despite the fact that these crystals are diamond shaped, rather than the more traditional tabular-acicular forms you normally see with DMT, they're still monoclinic crystals with 2/m symmetry.
In fact, Falkenberg lists DMT as being capable of of two point modifications within the P2/m space group. If anyone has access to this full article, it might explain the exact crystallization differences in DMT. Unfortunately, I only have access to papers going back to 1997.
<= igneous petrology student
keleblin said:
apologies for not doing a proper, more searchable citation
but unless it's a weird tor (running noscript) ip thing, you can download the full pdf from your link like i just did. it asked for a login before. it might be temporary access either way.