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GVG vs. Nectar Collector
- Thread starter zikzak
- Start date
GVG is ultimately the superior device what with the heat stone that allows for convection heating of the material.
Nectar Collectors are awesome and fantastic for dabs, but they use conduction heating in which the heated tip is applied directly to the material, pyrolizing it to some extent. Not to mention that now you have to deal with safely stowing a very hot-tipped nectar collector in the few seconds you have before the tryptamine freight train overtakes you.
Nectar Collectors are awesome and fantastic for dabs, but they use conduction heating in which the heated tip is applied directly to the material, pyrolizing it to some extent. Not to mention that now you have to deal with safely stowing a very hot-tipped nectar collector in the few seconds you have before the tryptamine freight train overtakes you.
I had the impression that nectar collectors if used properly never really came into contact with the material as the vaporization would be done by the heat around the tip and not the tip itself. But that isn't the case?
As for safety I wouldn't trust myself with either but would use a stand for both if I didn't have a sitter..
As for safety I wouldn't trust myself with either but would use a stand for both if I didn't have a sitter..
This is the whole dab vs a true convection vaporizer debate again.
In theory, sure the heat around the surface should vaporize the material before it actually comes into contact with the surface, assuming you can hold it at exactly that perfect distance and maintain exactly the right temperature and so on, it would work pretty great, but in practice one very rarely accomplishes this to perfection. You are still bringing the material to the heat source and using the conductive heat energy to vaporize it, this is why a temperature controlled electric nail is a better choice than one that you heat with a torch because it gives you that extra level of control. It's not that a nectar collector or dab rig or what have you doesn't work, they most assuredly do, but a true convection vaporizer will always give you a higher quality, cleaner, vapor with much less chance of pyrolysis.
The way a true convection vaporizer works, ala the GVG or a volcano or similar device is that air is forced through a heating element located a sufficient distance away from the material such that the material is not being vaporized by the conductive heat from the element itself and instead is only coming into contact with the heated air that has been forced through the element. A volcano or other temperature controlled, ceramic heating element based, fan forced, convection vaporizer accomplishes this quite a bit moar effectively than something like the GVG which is operated manually with a flame based heat source buffered by a ceramic disk. It's really quite easy to overheat the disk and pyrolize or even combust the material in the genie. However the advantage of the genie is in the size, a volcano or arizer or something like that is a much larger unit and the bag (or whip attachment with an arizer) has a much larger amount of surface area for your vapor to begin recrystallizing on, these units also tend to run pretty slowly as the fan fills the bag. With the GVG, the material vaporizes and gets to your lungs very quickly with a minimal amount of surface area exposure, while still allowing one to take advantage of a true convection heating method. It's kinda the perfect happy medium and that's why it's generally regarded as the freebase spicecraft of choice.
Of course this whole question is moot anyway, because everyone knows the the absolute best administration method is changa in the bonga. 8)
In theory, sure the heat around the surface should vaporize the material before it actually comes into contact with the surface, assuming you can hold it at exactly that perfect distance and maintain exactly the right temperature and so on, it would work pretty great, but in practice one very rarely accomplishes this to perfection. You are still bringing the material to the heat source and using the conductive heat energy to vaporize it, this is why a temperature controlled electric nail is a better choice than one that you heat with a torch because it gives you that extra level of control. It's not that a nectar collector or dab rig or what have you doesn't work, they most assuredly do, but a true convection vaporizer will always give you a higher quality, cleaner, vapor with much less chance of pyrolysis.
The way a true convection vaporizer works, ala the GVG or a volcano or similar device is that air is forced through a heating element located a sufficient distance away from the material such that the material is not being vaporized by the conductive heat from the element itself and instead is only coming into contact with the heated air that has been forced through the element. A volcano or other temperature controlled, ceramic heating element based, fan forced, convection vaporizer accomplishes this quite a bit moar effectively than something like the GVG which is operated manually with a flame based heat source buffered by a ceramic disk. It's really quite easy to overheat the disk and pyrolize or even combust the material in the genie. However the advantage of the genie is in the size, a volcano or arizer or something like that is a much larger unit and the bag (or whip attachment with an arizer) has a much larger amount of surface area for your vapor to begin recrystallizing on, these units also tend to run pretty slowly as the fan fills the bag. With the GVG, the material vaporizes and gets to your lungs very quickly with a minimal amount of surface area exposure, while still allowing one to take advantage of a true convection heating method. It's kinda the perfect happy medium and that's why it's generally regarded as the freebase spicecraft of choice.
Of course this whole question is moot anyway, because everyone knows the the absolute best administration method is changa in the bonga. 8)
^^^ good explanation.
once you dial in where to hold the lighter and how much air to draw in, it's by far ime the most potent and effective device out there for dmt freebase.
once you dial in where to hold the lighter and how much air to draw in, it's by far ime the most potent and effective device out there for dmt freebase.
Haha yea changa in the bonga 
Very nice explanation dreamer042 :thumb_up:
Which begs the question: what is the best temperature to use for the GVG? Wouldn't it be nice to have a heat gun that provided the perfect temperature?
Very nice explanation dreamer042 :thumb_up:
Which begs the question: what is the best temperature to use for the GVG? Wouldn't it be nice to have a heat gun that provided the perfect temperature?
Hi ZZ,zikzak said:
If you would use a heat gun that represent the temp of a flame, like an extreme hot air stream, this very hot air blast would probably heat the whole top glass section (as a whole) far too high. The flame tip of a (torch) lighter is a pin point little target on the ceramic stone so the glasswork is spared at max. Overheating the glass can crack it. Never point torch flame tip on the glass. With an air stream from an air gun just as flame hot, you cannot avoid to heat the glass.
The stone needs that hot temp just above it (not the glass) so the chamber under the stone reaches temp high enough in one rip/took. Lowering the heat guns air flow temp to glasswork safe levels then this air flow temperature would be too low for the stone to heat up fast enough. The gvg stone is made for flames temperatures especially to operate well.
Removing the stone top and relying on an air flow (e.g. heat gun with some distance to pipe) that would evaporate/not-burn spice perfectly (this temp might be very well safe for the glass parts) then it might be doable, but you would not necessarily buy an expensive pipe for that kind of setup. The power of gvg (vg) lies exactly the stone's principle in combination with a flame, the stone's dimensions are set to that.
Secondly, a running heat gun or a lighter have very different hazard implications when dropped while going deep in the realm. People have broken gvg and dropping lighters without much of a dangerous spin off. Heat guns is another thing I suppose.
zikzak said:
This is the case. The tip of your straw should never come into contact with your material holder or the material itself. A small hand torch should be plenty to heat it until it starts glowing red at which point simply putting it near the material should be enough to induce a Leiden frost effect and inhaling will direct the vapors upwards.
As far as safety goes, I generally have enough time between my initial windup and final hit to gently lay the collector on its side on something near by. So long as you don't touch it and remember to keep the tip away from the carpet and such you should be alright. Generally however I have a sitter near me and we do a dry run of how and when what will be handed off and stored where after so there's no confusion seeping into the pretrip.
That said I've never had occasion to use a GVG but nectar collectors are absolutely dazzling so long as you understand it's the HEAT -OF- the straw and not the STRAW ITSELF that is making the material vapirize.
Nope said:
Thanks Nope
I have a small nectar collector that I've only used (my friend did) once. It was for 5-MeO-DMT and it seemed very effective. I have ordered some small glass tubes with rounded bottom. My idea is to put the nectar collector in at stand and then just move the small glass tube close to the NC. I also usually have a sitter but if I'm gonna take off alone I'll try this. With 5-MeO-DMT I don't have time to put it down safely
I did however notice that it seems like the material melted into a puddle which not all got vaporized. Mayne it was just bad technique that one time but that's why I have ordered the small glass tubes with rounded bottom. Do you experience leftovers?
Yes that is just the material that was heated but not to the point of being vaporized. I've left mine there because it never seemed significant enough to recollect and when the pile gets big enough it yields clouds of effective smoke so I wouldn't worry about it. You can probably recover the leftovers with vinegar and re-x if you want to.
I personally prefer the NN. It take approx 2 and 3/4ths of a hit but the visuals are much preferred. Anytime I don't have "true visions" on a substance I am let down and dissapointed. I can see why you would want a setup like that and I think you should totally go for it. I've never had a problem setting my tools down and assuming a child's pose or some such but I have years of martial arts experience and a mind trained to do things while under extreme duress so I don't recommend it to anyone, it's just my personal experience that while the carrier wave is beginning I have been fortunate enough to not have an issue with my apparatus.
Use what works for you
I personally prefer the NN. It take approx 2 and 3/4ths of a hit but the visuals are much preferred. Anytime I don't have "true visions" on a substance I am let down and dissapointed. I can see why you would want a setup like that and I think you should totally go for it. I've never had a problem setting my tools down and assuming a child's pose or some such but I have years of martial arts experience and a mind trained to do things while under extreme duress so I don't recommend it to anyone, it's just my personal experience that while the carrier wave is beginning I have been fortunate enough to not have an issue with my apparatus.
Use what works for you
Jees said:
Maybe using a heat gun of this type with a nozzle could work:
It's not portable and it would require some kind of setup maybe. But anyways you could play around with it I guess.
I have just ordered this type of to see if I can use it with a health stone. Portable and with adjustable heat (range I can't find):
Draper Flameless Gas Torch 78775 | eBay
Features instant electronic ignition, adjustable heat and a refillable tank. One fill of standard butane lighter fuel will give up to 20 minutes (approx.). continuous work (at mid setting). Supplied with a dual purpose detachable lid/workstand.
www.ebay.co.uk
Perhaps it can.
It should switch of automatically when dropped.
Best is, when dropped there should be no big hot metal touchable. That Draper seems to have a protector nozzle that goes over the metal.
Still wondering if it matches flame temperatures.
If not it might be doable without the VG stone, just the liquid pad.
An uncertain factor is if these apparatus will work well upside down, flame down.
It should switch of automatically when dropped.
Best is, when dropped there should be no big hot metal touchable. That Draper seems to have a protector nozzle that goes over the metal.
Still wondering if it matches flame temperatures.
If not it might be doable without the VG stone, just the liquid pad.
An uncertain factor is if these apparatus will work well upside down, flame down.
Jees said:
Yes I saw mentioned that the Draper had problems upside down. I'll see. And yes I'm going a bit off topic here since I think I'd mainly be interested in using the Draper with either a Health Stone or a glass disc (like for the Aromed for example) on its own, not with the GVG. I'm guessing that using it that way could yield good results if it's possible to get the temperature where you want it..
