Harmalas safety guide

[reun]

Hi all,

I'm new here, I'm planning to experiment with harmalas soon, and I was hoping that members of this forum may be able to offer some sage advice concerning harmalas safety.

While paths of administration are not the point of this thread, I thought I'll mention what I have in mind just in case it will contextualise the rest of this discussion. I'd like to try harmalas:

• Standalone: ~100 mg of harmalas to start off with, just to experience this substance on its own
• Ayahuasca: mix about 50 mg of harmalas (mixed in lemon juice) with about 80 mg of freebase DMT (also mixed with lemon juice and consumed 30 mins later)
• Changa: I'd like to try 3 mixes -- (1) 1g DMT, 1 g harmalas, 1 g herb; (2) 300 mg DMT, 1g harmalas, 1g herb; (3) 500 mg DMT, 500 mg harmalas, 1 g herb

With that out of the way, I'd like to talk about safety. As I understand it, harmalas are actually very safe on their own, but their interactions introduce a lot of potential concerns, so one has to be extremely careful with that. After looking into this, I decided that there is just no way I would be open to facilitating a harmalas session for a friend because the risk here is absolutely catastrophic. As for myself, I've constructed a bit of a cheat sheet that spells out what to avoid and for how long. However, I'm still not sure how complete or how trustworthy is this sheet, and this is where I would love your input.

Would love to hear your thoughts! At least in theory, harmalas seem to be quite a handful in terms of interactions.

 

[northape]

Hi all,

I'm new here, I'm planning to experiment with harmalas soon, and I was hoping that members of this forum may be able to offer some sage advice concerning harmalas safety.

While paths of administration are not the point of this thread, I thought I'll mention what I have in mind just in case it will contextualise the rest of this discussion. I'd like to try harmalas:

• Standalone: ~100 mg of harmalas to start off with, just to experience this substance on its own

100mg is a good starting dose. Go for it.

• Ayahuasca: mix about 50 mg of harmalas (mixed in lemon juice) with about 80 mg of freebase DMT (also mixed with lemon juice and consumed 30 mins later)

Ayahuasca is a caapi vine from the Amazon. We are talking about pharmahuasca here. Your dose of harmalas should be closer to 200mg for a strong experience.

Thread 'How to make pharmahuasca hit reliably'

Sep 29, 2018

Just thought I'd post a little tidbit. Ayahuasca generally, and pharmahuasca especially, can be hit and miss. That is, you consume it, and it may take a long time to kick in, or might not kick in at all. I have discovered a method that makes it kick in EVERY time, 100% guaranteed, no misses, full force, with equal rapidity. Here's how I do it.

With pharma, I either boil 4 grams of syrian rue seeds for 15 minutes and reduce to a shot glass of liquid (no need to grind the seeds! just boil em and you'll be good), remove the seeds and take that, OR, put 200 mg pure harmine OR 100 mg pure...

• OneIsEros
• Replies: 73
• Forum: Pharmahuasca

• 
• 
• 

• Changa: I'd like to try 3 mixes -- (1) 1g DMT, 1 g harmalas, 1 g herb; (2) 300 mg DMT, 1g harmalas, 1g herb; (3) 500 mg DMT, 500 mg harmalas, 1 g herb

Thread 'All Things CHANGA: An Essential Guide'

Feb 2, 2025

All Things CHANGA: An Essential Guide​

This is something that I’ve wanted to write up and detail for a while. My intent is to cover as many bases as possible and make this as comprehensive as possible for all those that are interested in developing a relationship with changa and for those that have already been in the fray.

Let’s start with some links:
The Art of Changa, a guide to making the perfect blends.
Confusing changa guides (how much MAOI ?)
Detailed Changa Explanation (beginner friendly)
Changa Musings
Changa - DMT-Nexus Wiki...

• Voidmatrix
• Replies: 50
• Forum: Changa

• 
• 
• 

With that out of the way, I'd like to talk about safety. As I understand it, harmalas are actually very safe on their own, but their interactions introduce a lot of potential concerns, so one has to be extremely careful with that. After looking into this, I decided that there is just no way I would be open to facilitating a harmalas session for a friend because the risk here is absolutely catastrophic. As for myself, I've constructed a bit of a cheat sheet that spells out what to avoid and for how long. However, I'm still not sure how complete or how trustworthy is this sheet, and this is where I would love your input.

Would love to hear your thoughts! At least in theory, harmalas seem to be quite a handful in terms of interactions.

Harmalas are relatively safe food-wise, but you need to do proper research if you are using any medication. It is good to fast beforehand to avoid food interactions and have clean bowels. Harmalas are purgative. Safe travels.

Thread '[Harmalas] MAOI Drug Interaction Disclaimer'

May 29, 2016

WARNING: There are very dangerous interactions between any MAOIs (including harmalas) and many commonly used recreational drugs and medications, including SSRI medications (such as prozac) and stimulants (such as MDMA and other amphetamines) as well as many others. If you're taking SSRI's, do not consume MAOIs!! Do not mix stimulants with MAOIs either! Mixing stimulants or medications with MAOIs can lead to Hypertensive Crisis, Serotonin Syndrome, and even death. For a more complete list of pharmaceuticals and substances that should NEVER be taken when...

• dreamer042
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Pharmahuasca

• 

 

[new_science]

Yeah, echoing what northape pointed out, taking 50mg of harmalas is not going to inhibit your MAO enough for that DMT to work its magic.

Is that chart your work? It's way too generalized. Each medication or drug has its own half life. To make an example of one you (?) included, tramadol's half life is 8 hours. You shouldn't need to wait 2 weeks after taking tramadol before taking harmalas. If the chart isn't your own work, consider more strongly vetting your sources.

 

[Voidmatrix]

This should provide useful.

One love

 

[blig-blug]

I agree with the previous posts.

Your dose of harmalas should be closer to 200mg for a strong experience.

And, to complement that, your first dose of DMT with 200mg harmalas should be lower than 80mg. Start with 30mg or 40mg, you can always redose.

About the symptoms of serotonin syndrome or hypertensive crisis: while those indeed are symptoms of it, it's not unlikely that you will experience some of them as normal effects of Ayahuasca, and they may feel subjectively extreme. If you are concerned about the possibility of experiencing either an hypertensive crisis or serotonin syndrome (although there should be no reason for it to happen if you don't have preexisting issues and are careful with interactions), have someone that has previously learned to tell actually dangerous symptoms apart from Ayahuasca effects. For example, while you could feel severely hyperthermic, a thermometer most likely will only show slightly elevated temperature.

This is important because calling for unnecessary medical assistance in the middle of an experience is something risky in itself. Everything possible should be done so one can be sure that a medical emergency is exceedingly unlikely, and if the perspective of one worries you (and may worry you during the trip), again have a sitter that has learned the basics about identifying when there's a reason to be concerned.

 

[reun]

100mg is a good starting dose. Go for it.

Ayahuasca is a caapi vine from the Amazon. We are talking about pharmahuasca here. Your dose of harmalas should be closer to 200mg for a strong experience.

Thread 'How to make pharmahuasca hit reliably'

Sep 29, 2018

Just thought I'd post a little tidbit. Ayahuasca generally, and pharmahuasca especially, can be hit and miss. That is, you consume it, and it may take a long time to kick in, or might not kick in at all. I have discovered a method that makes it kick in EVERY time, 100% guaranteed, no misses, full force, with equal rapidity. Here's how I do it.

With pharma, I either boil 4 grams of syrian rue seeds for 15 minutes and reduce to a shot glass of liquid (no need to grind the seeds! just boil em and you'll be good), remove the seeds and take that, OR, put 200 mg pure harmine OR 100 mg pure...

• OneIsEros
• Replies: 73
• Forum: Pharmahuasca

• 
• 
• 

Thread 'All Things CHANGA: An Essential Guide'

Feb 2, 2025

All Things CHANGA: An Essential Guide​

This is something that I’ve wanted to write up and detail for a while. My intent is to cover as many bases as possible and make this as comprehensive as possible for all those that are interested in developing a relationship with changa and for those that have already been in the fray.

Let’s start with some links:
The Art of Changa, a guide to making the perfect blends.
Confusing changa guides (how much MAOI ?)
Detailed Changa Explanation (beginner friendly)
Changa Musings
Changa - DMT-Nexus Wiki...

• Voidmatrix
• Replies: 50
• Forum: Changa

• 
• 
• 

Harmalas are relatively safe food-wise, but you need to do proper research if you are using any medication. It is good to fast beforehand to avoid food interactions and have clean bowels. Harmalas are purgative. Safe travels.

Thread '[Harmalas] MAOI Drug Interaction Disclaimer'

May 29, 2016

WARNING: There are very dangerous interactions between any MAOIs (including harmalas) and many commonly used recreational drugs and medications, including SSRI medications (such as prozac) and stimulants (such as MDMA and other amphetamines) as well as many others. If you're taking SSRI's, do not consume MAOIs!! Do not mix stimulants with MAOIs either! Mixing stimulants or medications with MAOIs can lead to Hypertensive Crisis, Serotonin Syndrome, and even death. For a more complete list of pharmaceuticals and substances that should NEVER be taken when...

• dreamer042
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Pharmahuasca

• 

Thank you!

100mg is a good starting dose. Go for it.

Great, thank you, I'll adjust my dosage

Ayahuasca is a caapi vine from the Amazon. We are talking about pharmahuasca here. Your dose of harmalas should be closer to 200mg for a strong experience.

Yes, you are right, it is pharmahuasca we are talking about here! And also good to know that I would need to bump the dosage here as well

Harmalas are relatively safe food-wise, but you need to do proper research if you are using any medication.

Given that I have little experience here, I got the sense that food-safety is also somewhat questionable here, e.g. soy sauce, beer and a bunch of other innocent-looking regular food products may interact with it negatively, which is what got me rather cautious here. As for medications, yes, that's the most important part, it seems. As I noted earlier, some over-the-counter meds can also have a highly unpleasant interactions with harmalas, such as cold medicine, and that got me even more cautious.

Personally, I only take various dietary supplements (even those need to be double-checked) and DORA (dual orexin receptor antagonists) sleep medication, I believe these meds do not interact with harmalas, so I'm safe, I think...!

 

[reun]

Yeah, echoing what northape pointed out, taking 50mg of harmalas is not going to inhibit your MAO enough for that DMT to work its magic.

Is that chart your work? It's way too generalized. Each medication or drug has its own half life. To make an example of one you (?) included, tramadol's half life is 8 hours. You shouldn't need to wait 2 weeks after taking tramadol before taking harmalas. If the chart isn't your own work, consider more strongly vetting your sources.

Yes, thank you, I may indeed need to bump up the dosage. But it still sounds like I may be able to have a mild pure harmalas trip on 100 mg, right?

The chart is mine, yes -- I just had a bunch of notes and I generated an infographic out of it. I realise that it's too crude, but considering that we are talking about broad categories here, I attempted to take a conservative view here -- I thought that it might be particularly helpful for others (e.g. friends and family, but as I also noted, I am reluctant to assist anyone in taking harmalas for safety reasons). One might think that simply looking up the interaction profile between harmalas and whatever medications or recreational drugs one consumes might suffice here, I feel like the problem is that a lot of people might not even realise what counts as a medication -- e.g. over the counter decongestant nose sprays -- I think a lot of people wouldn't bother cross-checking that. Same goes to say for beer and other foods. That said, I compiled this list with the assistance of AI, fully realising that I cannot trust the results, which is why I wanted to cross-check it with this forum. Tramadol is a good example -- since there are so many meds involved here, I simply went with the recommendations of whatever my AI researcher could dig up. I will edit my post to say that the infographic is not trustworthy and that it's only meant to start a discussion

 

[reun]

I agree with the previous posts.


And, to complement that, your first dose of DMT with 200mg harmalas should be lower than 80mg. Start with 30mg or 40mg, you can always redose.

About the symptoms of serotonin syndrome or hypertensive crisis: while those indeed are symptoms of it, it's not unlikely that you will experience some of them as normal effects of Ayahuasca, and they may feel subjectively extreme. If you are concerned about the possibility of experiencing either an hypertensive crisis or serotonin syndrome (although there should be no reason for it to happen if you don't have preexisting issues and are careful with interactions), have someone that has previously learned to tell actually dangerous symptoms apart from Ayahuasca effects. For example, while you could feel severely hyperthermic, a thermometer most likely will only show slightly elevated temperature.

This is important because calling for unnecessary medical assistance in the middle of an experience is something risky in itself. Everything possible should be done so one can be sure that a medical emergency is exceedingly unlikely, and if the perspective of one worries you (and may worry you during the trip), again have a sitter that has learned the basics about identifying when there's a reason to be concerned.

Thank you, this is actually a very useful piece of advice.

First, regarding DMT dosage: alright, so 30-40 is a good starting point, but when you said that you can redose, does this mean that you can take another 30-40 a few hours later?

About the troublesome symptoms: this is a very good point that you may subjectively feel some of those symptoms, and perhaps this is where a low-dose harmalas-only run might be useful at first, just to get the hang of the medicine. It sounds like you are suggesting having a sober trip-sitter for this experience, which might be a good idea, although not always practical.

To be honest, what makes me most uncomfortable about harmalas is their complex set of interactions with all sorts of medications and foods. I don't take any medicines or supplements that have any interactions with harmalas, so as long as I fast (I'm probably just going to stick to chicken, rice and broccoli the day before and the day after, and no food at all during the flight day), I think I should be okay, but I still have some anxiety about this. Also, while pharmahuasca is indeed a full-day experience, I wish that changa didn't require such a rigorous dietary prep, but it seems that I would still need to stick to chicken, rice and broccoli on the day I want to smoke changa.

 

[new_science]

100mg is indeed a fairly mild pure harmalas trip. I started off taking harmalas at 30mg and found that I liked the effect at 50-60mg more. Then I found that I liked 80mg even more than that, but it was getting to the top end of what one could consider a "supplemental" dose. When I started using 100mg regularly I realized that I had a serious affection on my hands. The doses subsequently increased further. Before I could gain my senses and swat it away with a broom, I found myself firmly rooted in the local chapter of the HPC, or Harmala Proselyte Club. I did not invent it. I did not choose it. The HPC life chose me.

You've been warned.

PS: I don't think changa requires a diet prep. Simply pharma/ayahuasca.

 

[reun]

100mg is indeed a fairly mild pure harmalas trip. I started off taking harmalas at 30mg and found that I liked the effect at 50-60mg more. Then I found that I liked 80mg even more than that, but it was getting to the top end of what one could consider a "supplemental" dose. When I started using 100mg regularly I realized that I had a serious affection on my hands. The doses subsequently increased further. Before I could gain my senses and swat it away with a broom, I found myself firmly rooted in the local chapter of the HPC, or Harmala Proselyte Club. I did not invent it. I did not choose it. The HPC life chose me.

You've been warned.

PS: I don't think changa requires a diet prep. Simply pharma/ayahuasca.

Ah, thank you for sharing your experience! A few follow up questions:

• You mentioned a "supplemental" dose -- is this in some form akin to microdosing? If so, does this mean that you can still be somewhat functional during the day?
• It sounds like you're a fan of the harmalas, so I just wanted to double-check: you like to consume harmalas on their own without DMT?
• If harmalas seem to be liked on their own, do people make changa with harmalas but without DMT?

I think I heard somewhere that harmalas diet prep is a lot shorter, so if you want to do it in the evening, you might just have a light, early dinner low on tyramine, but my more recent research is still leaning towards a more cautious diet before changa (although I'm not sure how much I can trust this research!)

As a side note, I have a bunch of Syrian rue and all the necessities to run the extraction process, I just need to do it now and then reserve a spot in my calendar. I also have some DMT, but after extracting it, putting some of it into a vape cartridge and trying it once (albeit poorly, since I didn't have my inhalation technique refined nor did I even use the right voltage), I'm still a little intimidated of doing it again But I will get around to it, and I am looking forward to trying the harmalas recipes

 

[new_science]

Yes, supplemental is not necessarily a microdose however. I would say that's more like 30mg or less even. Once you can no longer safely drive on a substance, I would say you're definitely past supplemental territory. For me, that's probably around the 80mg mark. I haven't driven on that much and I got significant tracers from that amount one time, which would be a solid no-go. So in my opinion only, I'd consider a supplement dose to be more like 50-60 at the most. As always YMMV. We all have different physiologies, not to mention different purities of extract.

I love to consume harmalas on their own, or even with a little bit of weed product. For me that is 10mg of THC or less. Again YMMV. I think it's best for all substances to use them on their own at first before exploring combinations. I did do vaporhuasca (rue tea + smoked DMT) and psilohuasca (rue tea with mushrooms) each one time before exploring harmalas on their own, and I liked those experiences a lot. It gave me the curiosity to go back to it in isolation.

There are people who smoke harmalas on their own, though that hasn't been me. I enjoy them orally so much that my interest for that ROA is not present at this time. My experience with changa is maybe four experiences deep, so I am a neophyte in that regard as well.

If we are lucky enough to see The Sofa Traveler in this thread, he is a great source of knowledge on the subject. If you see his posts about harmalas elsewhere on the forum, read what he has to say. There are obviously many seasoned members on this forum whom you should listen to; I mention TST because I know him well enough by now to understand his full competence.

 

[reun]

Yes, supplemental is not necessarily a microdose however. I would say that's more like 30mg or less even. Once you can no longer safely drive on a substance, I would say you're definitely past supplemental territory. For me, that's probably around the 80mg mark. I haven't driven on that much and I got significant tracers from that amount one time, which would be a solid no-go. So in my opinion only, I'd consider a supplement dose to be more like 50-60 at the most. As always YMMV. We all have different physiologies, not to mention different purities of extract.

I love to consume harmalas on their own, or even with a little bit of weed product. For me that is 10mg of THC or less. Again YMMV. I think it's best for all substances to use them on their own at first before exploring combinations. I did do vaporhuasca (rue tea + smoked DMT) and psilohuasca (rue tea with mushrooms) each one time before exploring harmalas on their own, and I liked those experiences a lot. It gave me the curiosity to go back to it in isolation.

There are people who smoke harmalas on their own, though that hasn't been me. I enjoy them orally so much that my interest for that ROA is not present at this time. My experience with changa is maybe four experiences deep, so I am a neophyte in that regard as well.

If we are lucky enough to see The Sofa Traveler in this thread, he is a great source of knowledge on the subject. If you see his posts about harmalas elsewhere on the forum, read what he has to say. There are obviously many seasoned members on this forum whom you should listen to; I mention TST because I know him well enough by now to understand his full competence.

Great, thank you for weighing in with your feedback.

As noted above, my main concern with harmalas is the tight restrictions that they enforce. If you consume harmalas orally somewhat frequently, do you not find it to be cumbersome from the point of view of your diet? I'm guessing that you'd have to have a strict diet the day before and after harmala consumption, plus an absolute fast on the day of consumption. Is that true, or am I overthinking this somehow?