How long should I hold down the brew?

[Uiui]

So last night I tried ayahuasca. B. Caapi and chacruna. Never done them both only caapi. I felt a little nausea then suddenly I just threw up without have the controll to holding it back down. It happend so quick.
I read in a book that you have to atleast hold it down for 30 min so it has time to get into the bloodstream. And I held it down for maybe 30-35 mins. I took 110g caapi and 30g chacruna. Should I take more chacruna next time or try to hold it longer?

And another question, I dont feel anything special when I only take the vine. Almost nothing, and no nausea. Only when I moved my hand infront of me it was like "slow motion", like several hands, very blury. Also the same with all my surrounding. Is this because I need more than 110g ? Or is this normal for some people?

 

[polytrip]

110 grams of caapi usually is way more than you need, unless you have realy weak vine. Some people need only 40 grams, others a little more than that. If i where you, i would try 50 grams. There's a good chance that you won't have to purge, and if you still have to, you will be able to hold it down a little longer.
I don't realy know for how long you have to hold it down, i hardly ever have to puke. Datura seeds (you only need a few of them and too much of it is realy VERY dangerous) can also help prevent nausea and puking. Filtering your brew and using the egg-white technique to get rid of tannins may help as well.
If you boil your brew down to only a cup or glass, your brew is more concentrated and it will enter the bloodstream faster. If you still find the brew very hard on your stomach, then maybe eating a little rusk or some toast right after you drank it, would help.

But if all of this doesn't work it's maybe a good idea to have a second dose of ayahuasca present, so you can immediately take a new dose if you haven't managed to keep it in long enough.

30 grams of chacruna isn't much, but normally you should get at least some mild psychedelic effects. 50 grams is a normal dose.

 

[soulfood]

I need 100+ white caapi to really feel it. With other types apparently a lot less is needed. What vine are you working with?

I too find the addition of DMT to be the most nauseating part of the experience as I always take my doses seperate as they don't seem to work when they are mixed together. However I have had some rather intense experiences that don't feature any nausea at all.

I recommend cold filtering/ fridge decanting for 4 or 5 days to let a lot of the loose particles drop out of the brew as that always seems to let things settle a bit more smoothly, though some say this reduces the potency of the brew.

 

[Uiui]

Thanks for the information. I will try 50grams of charuna next time and cut down a little on the vine, I can have 50gram more if I need it.
I work with Terence Mckennas red vine from a known vendor.

Its better to take them both together right? Otherwise the trip last much longer if I take the chacruna 60-90mins later, right?

Many thanks

 

[soulfood]

Its better to take them both together right? Otherwise the trip last much longer if I take the chacruna 60-90mins later, right?

Many thanks

Everyone seems to be different. If I take them both together no matter how high the dose, the admixture has no effect. I usually wait 30 minutes after the vine.

Traditionally they are both drank together, but I think in that practice it's also quite common to brew more than is needed so a second dose is available which for me would have the same mechanism as dosing seperately albeit in a less conservative manner.

I wouldn't cut the vine dosage, but rather just raise the chacruna. Chacruna can also be an unreliable plant at times so it's becoming more and more common that people are using small doses of filtered Jurema tea with their brew.

 

[kemist]

From what you wrote it seems that swim had enough harmalas in body to inhibit mao.

Problem must be in chacruna used. If is an old one or weak one even more then 50 g would be needed for decent trip.
ILPT has bad luck with chacruna and abandoned this plant. Mimosa is more rewarding, although he never used it plain but always extract it.

What acid did swim use in his brew ?

 

[Uiui]

Thanks now I think I know how to do it next time. I go for 100g vine and 30min later I take 50g chacruna. Hopefully it will give effect. Im so scared of taking to much so I take it easy with the doses. Done that mistake before with shrooms, dont want to make this mistake with holy ayahuasca.

I use a generous tablespoon of vinegar per of liter distilled water.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Im so scared of taking to much so I take it easy with the doses.

Then allow me to suggest starting at around 50g caapi and 50g of chacruna. 100g of caapi is way more than necessary to have an authentic ayahuasca experience and begin to immerse yourself in the cosmic waters. 50g of each should still be a solid experience and while potency does vary widely with P. viridis, if you are wary of taking too much, I would not exceed 50g of caapi along with that 50g of chacruna.

 

[olympus mon]

How long should I hold down the brew?

until a elf or alien type creature says its ok to puke :lol: by then your in the clear!

 

[Cindor]

I have to agree that 110g of caapi seems too much.
For preventing nausea you can use some herbs, like a ginger, a few datura seeds, a green herb, among others. Also a cold water extraction, the herbal percolator or a clarification can help a lot.

 

[soulfood]

I have to agree that 110g of caapi seems too much.

This really depends on what caapi is being used. For some caapi, 50g is way too much and for others 200g can be just about right. You'd be surprised how much caapi that has been used in some brews. I've heard as much as 500g per person in some recipes.

 

[Uiui]

Thank you all for the posts. I did a new try today. I took 50g B. Caapi and used the herbal percolator and boiled 60gram chacruna.

First I took the 50g B. Caapi, ive read that the herbal percolator makes the brew stronger. Anyway I felt like on 100g so I think 50g is enought of the caapi. I drank the caapi first then 35min later I took 50g chacruna and waited 1h30min and then took 10g. I got very very little visuals, it was so dark so it was hard to tell what it exactly was but I think I saw some skullheads talking, a snake crawling around and some other stuff that was hard to identify. Next time, maybe tomorow I try more. Maybe 80-100gram of chacruna?
Im still unexperienced with this brew so im not really sure about anything but im experienting.

I got a good feeling of that this is what I was suppossed to do in the first. I mean take ayahuasca.

 

[polytrip]

Thank you all for the posts. I did a new try today. I took 50g B. Caapi and used the herbal percolator and boiled 60gram chacruna.

First I took the 50g B. Caapi, ive read that the herbal percolator makes the brew stronger. Anyway I felt like on 100g so I think 50g is enought of the caapi. I drank the caapi first then 35min later I took 50g chacruna and waited 1h30min and then took 10g. I got very very little visuals, it was so dark so it was hard to tell what it exactly was but I think I saw some skullheads talking, a snake crawling around and some other stuff that was hard to identify. Next time, maybe tomorow I try more. Maybe 80-100gram of chacruna?
Im still unexperienced with this brew so im not really sure about anything but im experienting.

I got a good feeling of that this is what I was suppossed to do in the first. I mean take ayahuasca.

Visuals are best perceived in a dark environment. If you didn't get a good look because it was too dark, then you didn't have a full blown ayahuasca experience.

I think you waited too long before taking the chacruna. I would try taking it immediately after you've taken the caapi, or to take them simultaneously within one single brew. Then you wouldn't need 100 grams of chacruna. 50 grams should do, or maybe 70 if you have very weak chacruna.

If you wait too long before taking the chacruna, there is a chance that the MAO-inhibiting effects are starting to wear of by the time chacruna is ingested. This probably also depends on you metabolism.

 

[Uiui]

Thank you all for the posts. I did a new try today. I took 50g B. Caapi and used the herbal percolator and boiled 60gram chacruna.

First I took the 50g B. Caapi, ive read that the herbal percolator makes the brew stronger. Anyway I felt like on 100g so I think 50g is enought of the caapi. I drank the caapi first then 35min later I took 50g chacruna and waited 1h30min and then took 10g. I got very very little visuals, it was so dark so it was hard to tell what it exactly was but I think I saw some skullheads talking, a snake crawling around and some other stuff that was hard to identify. Next time, maybe tomorow I try more. Maybe 80-100gram of chacruna?
Im still unexperienced with this brew so im not really sure about anything but im experienting.

I got a good feeling of that this is what I was suppossed to do in the first. I mean take ayahuasca.

Visuals are best perceived in a dark environment. If you didn't get a good look because it was too dark, then you didn't have a full blown ayahuasca experience.

I think you waited too long before taking the chacruna. I would try taking it immediately after you've taken the caapi, or to take them simultaneously within one single brew. Then you wouldn't need 100 grams of chacruna. 50 grams should do, or maybe 70 if you have very weak chacruna.

If you wait too long before taking the chacruna, there is a chance that the MAO-inhibiting effects are starting to wear of by the time chacruna is ingested. This probably also depends on you metabolism.

I had my eyes closed in dark so it wasnt anything actually. Soon im gonna do 55g caapi with 75 chacruna. Hope it works better this time. Im gonna take them both as you say.
Thanks alot!

 

[Uiui]

Yesterday night I took them together and I feelt nothing not even nausea, didnt have to shit or vomit it up. Very strange gonna try it again tomorow maybe same dose or more? Im gonna drink them separate this time. Always when I drink this wine before anything starts I have to atleast take a shit.
This is my third attempt mixing both chacruna and the vine without any results. Hope it works tomorow.

 

[polytrip]

This is weird. I'm starting to wonder whether you have either weak vine or weak chacruna or both. At some point it ought to do something amazing.

There are some things that maybe could help induce lift-off.
-Buy a new batch of chacruna from a vendor with a good reputation to make sure it's potent enough. (plenty of good vendor's mentioned in the nexus suppliers section)
-Up dose of chacruna.
-resort to mimosa instead of chacruna...could be problematic because more likely to induce vomiting.
-Eat a few datura seeds (you need less than 10 of them and too much is realy VERY dangerous).
-Add a small dose of shrooms. That can realy help to boost the DMT.
-Simmer brew to increase the rate of absorbtion in the bloodstream.

If you realy want to make sure that it will work next time i would do the following: 1-first make the brew with a normal amount of good hawaian chacruna (around 50 grams) Don't use too much water. A total amount of around 0.75 liters is optimal to start with. You cannot extract all of the chacruna in one time with this amount of water so extract an amount that fits, discard the extracted leaves and then start with a new amount of fresh leaves untill you've extracted all of the 50 grams. Don't boil the chacruna for too long. 5 minutes will do. Your end product should then be about 0.3 to 0.5 liters so it's quickly absorbed by the stomach. 2-Add either chaliponga or mimosa: 5 grams of chaliponga boiled with the chacruna will do. Mimosa is a different story: wait until the chacruna brew has cooled down to room temperature, then add 5 to 10 grams of powdered mimosa rootbark, let it sit in the cold chacruna brew for a few hours and stir a few times in between. then filter the brew. 3-Eat less than 10 datura seeds right after taking the brew. 4-Take the brew immediately after you ingested the caapi or simultaneously with the caapi. Ingest the brew as fast as possible. No matter how it tastes, you should have ingested it within 10 minutes. 5-Make sure there is another brew ready with both caapi and chacruna in case of vomiting before desired effects have started. Drink the second brew immediately after you've emptied your stomach if this occurs. 6-Eat something light, about 4 hours before you take the brew so your stomach is comfortable. A very full stomach as well as a totally empty stomach are sub-optimal conditions.

This should definately work.

 

[obliguhl]

I took 50g B. Caapi and used the herbal percolator

I would try to do a regular 3x3 hour brew. I recently used The herbal Percecolator and 30g worth of brew was weaker than 10g regularly brewed. Use vinegar to acidify the water.

 

[Uiui]

Thanks for the response guys
I first did The herbal Percecolator then I boiled it and added the chacruna in the in the boil. Maybe that was wrong thing to do? Im gonna cook them separately this time. Then in the end I added some ginger. I have a little mimosa but I want to try more chacruna first. Because I bought 1 kilo.
Im gonna boil the chacruna 5min x3 ?
And about the The herbal Percecolator, I think its working because I feel the same as when I have boiled it 3x3 regular style.

 

[prottel]

Sounds like weak chacruna and somewhat weak caapi. 110 gram caapi should usually give more than just slight tracers. More like needing to crawl to the toilet to purge. When you see tracers, it should give at least enough inhibition for a decent journey. And I would also suggest getting hawaiian chacruna. If that doesn't work, mimosa should do it.

 

[Uiui]

Yes I think my chacruna is weak should I go for 100 grams ? And if I go for the jurema how much is a normal dose ?