Impending legal issues????

[Vikingsc]

Regarding this story:
Canadian Police Seize 120kg of 'DMT' (assumed to be mhrb), One Arrest

Canadian Police Seize 120kg of 'DMT' (assumed to be mhrb), One Arrest - Coalition for Entheogenic Liberty - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I am also a fairly new vendor of ethnobotanicals including MHRB here in Canada and I fear that the long arm of the law wants me in a cell beside this poor fellow. I have been purchasing bulk mhrb from the same bulk supplier as this guy was. (I am not going to mention the company's name as this is not the best advertisement for it, although I'm sure a lot of you will have a good idea of who it is) I actually have this guys tracking numbers and I was debating on posting them here because they don't seem to give up his identity, but I decided to paste the contents of one of them instead:

Track History
Date Time Location Description Retail Location Signatory Name
2012/04/13 AM NAPANEE Item on hold at postal facility to verify address of recipient
08:10 NAPANEE Item out for delivery
2012/03/15 14:09 MISSISSAUGA International item arrived in Canada and will be reviewed by Customs
2012/03/06 08:39 International item has left the origin country and is en route to Canada
08:26 International item processed in origin country




He had 5 separate packages that basically all looked pretty much the same as this. As you can see his packages were held at customs for 2 days short of a month and it appears that they made the delivery as a "sting" operation and must've immediately arrested him upon accepting his delivery. This is a sad state of affairs when(if) our government is arresting and charging people for mimosa.


Now what frightens me is I also have a large package of mimosa from this same bulk supplier although 2 of the boxes made it through fine, 1 of them is still in customs since May 2 2012 and says the exact same thing his did "International item arrived in Canada and will be reviewed by Customs".



First of all I want thank everybody for pitching in and making this great community here. It has been a great value to me for quite some time. And if I make it through this (possible) impending legal issue that the Nexus will be the first place that I will become a sponsor with, although there's a good chance I'd only be shipping mimosa within Canada from now on.


So now I have a few questions for the community. What does everybody think my best option is? As a fellow ethnobotanical enthusiast my house would be a nightmare to some jack booted thug kicking down my door(not even to mention the bulk quasi-legal ethnobotanicals) and I would much prefer that this didn't happen. Do you think that they'd be able to attain a warrant/kick down door if I just didn't sign for the package and disavowed knowledge of it? This fellow was less than 3 hours from the customs office and it took nearly a month. I'm on the other side of the country, so I'm guessing that if they planned the same thing with me it would take at least as long to organize? Does anybody know whether this fellow actually got charged? Or any follow up details to this story? Including does anybody know if there is any legal precedent here in Canada of charging anybody with mimosa as DMT? I should probably begin scrubbing my house of all things considered by the state to be illegal/quasi-legal just in case?


Any advice is greatly appreciated and because of the pressing nature of my circumstance is there any chance of either going straight to full member to post this in the original thread? and/or if somebody who has the capability to post a link to this in the original thread?



Thanks guys

 

[changalvia]

Hey Vik

Firstly, I would post it for you in the correct place but I too am not a full member yet.

Secondly, I would not worry about it too much. That guy was found with 120KG. Whether it was MH or d*m*thyltrypt*m*n* doesn't matter, it still equates to a massive amount, and I honestly don't see why anyone would order so much unless they had intentions other than personal consumption.

Although some advice I can give you is maybe don't accept the parcel? Stash the bark somewhere else off of your property... At least until you know you are not suspected of anything. Maybe even set up a clothing thing where you can state it is for dye purposes and back it up, and do a little bit of research on MH in respect to clothing dye and not just d*m*thyltrypt*m*n*.

Good Luck

 

[jdf121]

Changa, The guy that got busted was a reseller of bark, not extracting massive amounts to sell.

Viking, First of all, I would get everything illegal and kinda illegal out of your home. Put that stuff somewhere else and safe. A place they cannot obtain a warrant for. Secondly, unfortunately, I don't know of the precedent (if any) that exists for hostilis bark in Canada. DMT containing plants are somewhat protected in the US by Supreme Court precedent, but that doesn't hold for Canada.

Maybe it just takes a bit to get through customs.. Hope everything turns out well. Keep us posted.

 

[anrchy]

^^ I agree. Clear your house, and I wouldn't accept that package. If its being checked by customs then something for sure is fishy. If it were nothing I would think they would have cleared it more quickly. Better safe than sorry. More importantly if you could afford it consulting a lawyer would be my next step. I might be going over board but that's what I would be doing.

 

[endlessness]

Maybe contact a lawyer if you know somebody, because each country will have a different law, but it could be the case that if you never were in possession of the material, you cannot be charged. Think about it, anybody can send you anything through post, but until you accept it, its not yours.

So just ignore this parcel, have your house as clean as possible at the very least of the directly illegal things (and be sure to have a good story for the plant material, stock up on non-psychoactive herbs, dont have the nexus page open in your computer or any other information on extracting/ingesting the substances) and be careful not to slip up legally some other way in the meanwhile. If you dont accept the package I think its quite possible they cannot do anything to you, but better safe than sorry (and do contact a lawyer if you can! )

I wish you all the best! Let us know how this develops!

 

[changalvia]

jdf121, noted point, however he still had intent. The government isn't as stupid as one might like to believe

 

[tony]

jdf121, noted point, however he still had intent. The government isn't as stupid as one might like to believe

He had intent to sell the mimosa to people, same as the people we all buy our mimosa from and same as the original poster of this thread. If no one was buying bulk amounts and reselling it then we wouldn't be able to buy it The government either shouldn't have taken it since it is not illegal, if it has recently been made illegal or something then that is different though. Regardless, they should never have labeled it as 120kg of DMT, that is just intentional misinformation.

EDT: I'm working from the assumption that the guy who got charged was in fact a reseller, which I think is probably a safe assumption. Even if someone was daft enough to be buying mimosa to extract it and sell the spice they probably wouldn't need to be buying those kind of bulk amounts of mimosa.

 

[The Day Tripper]

Correct me if im wrong here, but you haven't broken any laws as of yet. Your not consuming the bark, not selling it for consumption, and are not doing anything illegal with it.

AFAIK, theres no laws prohibiting importation of mhrb, so long as they cannot prove you intended to consume it. Even if you resell the bark, as long as its all nfhc, you should be kosher, even if they decide to pay you a visit and/or you get arrested.

Make sure theres nothing at your residence that can incriminate you, and contact a lawyer. I'm not %100 sure about the law in canada, but if it only prohibits plants containing dmt when they can prove you intended to consume/extract that dmt, you are well within the law.

 

[Deliria_Oilbird]

plants are illegal, welcome to modern times :/

stash your stuff somewhere else just in case. might save you from time consuming bs

 

[jamie]

Well, I am guessing you are where I am on the west coast. I am in Vancouver and have never experienced customs seizing anything like this or heard of anyone else experiencing this sort of thing..it seems to be happening more on the east coast..I tend to think of the east coast a slighly more conservative when it comes to this sort of stuff based on the fact that it is there where all of this seems to be going down.

Either way if i was you I would seek some legal advice..maybe get a lawyer so that if this ever does go that way in the future you will be at least prepared. Mimosa, as far as I know is NOT illegal in Canada. We do not have the same sort of laws here as in the US where mimosa is actaully illegal, do we?

Anyway I want to thank you for doing this work. It is important and very much appreciated Be well.

 

[Vikingsc]

Tony, yes you are right. I know for a fact that this man was a legitimate reseller of MHRB. He had the site juremaincense.com, as well as apparently one other site. And I believe it's just speculation that he was extracting and making large quantities of changa as the supposed 120 kg. of DMT I know for a fact that he had ordered 121.5 kg of root bark. He may or may not have been extracting either personal or large amounts. The only issue I care about is whether or not they can and did charge him for root bark. It is rather hypocritical to say nobody should have large quantities of root bark and then turn around and order root bark from somebody who will obviously have to have large quantities of root bark. If all of your vendors got arrested where would you purchase root bark?


I'm thinking I will buy a camper or trailer; as I would like to get one anyways and put anything incriminating in there and park it somewhere off site where it won't be found.

So most people believe that If I don't sign for it, they probably wouldn't be able to get a warrant for the house anyways?

 

[Vikingsc]

Hey Jaimie. Yeah I am in the west. Not on the coast. I'm originally from BC, but living in Alberta. That's what I had always experienced and heard of so I wasn't worried, but I got this from a certain supplier everybody knows in Brazil and he doesn't ship it priority mail so it ended up going through the same customs office in Missisauga as the one from the story above. My site is down right now, but if I continue to sell MHRB I think I will have to make sure it gets air mailed to me that way it doesn't go through this east coast customs office in Missisauga.

 

[tony]

I can't speak for Canada, but certainly in the UK there's no way they'd get a warrant just based on you buying mimosa, no matter how much it was. Mimosa is sold legally, so they would have no legal justification for a raid unless they had other evidence relating to something illegal... and even then it would need to be something pretty substantial for them to get a search warrant.

 

[Vikingsc]

Hey Tony, this appears to be exactly what happened here in the story above.

 

[tony]

Hey Tony, this appears to be exactly what happened here in the story above.

Yeah good point, lol. If they really got a warrant just for MHRB then that is ridiculous. Not a great time to be an ethnobotanical supplier :?

 

[Vikingsc]

Oh and Day Tripper I didn't think I had done anything illegal when I ordered it(and still don't) but the fellow in the story above hadn't either before they entered his house. What else they may have found in his house I don't know or really care. That's his purogative.

 

[Guyomech]

So, you ordered 3 packages of MHRB... 2 arrived and the other is sitting in customs. So if they try delivering the third and you refuse it, you may derail their sting for that moment but you are still on record as having accepted those two packages.

Clean up, call a lawyer. Your van idea might be a good temporary fix too.

Another thing you can look into is do a search on customs delays. Find out if a long time in customs is rare or typical. Government offices can be amazingly inefficient. But this could give a sense of whether this delay is rare or routine, and might give you an idea of exactly how much to panic.

One thing that may be happening here is a new official harassment of MHRB buyers. Even if no law is being broken, enough ugly raids would be a real deterrent.

Definitely have to talk to those suppliers about using air mail! Now is not the time to be frugal.

 

[Vikingsc]

Yeah, I ordered it as one large order, but they had to ship it as 3 separate boxes and the one box has been in customs since May 2nd. I order a lot of ethnobotanicals and other products either for personal use or bulk for my company and anything more than a couple days in customs is rare. Often it's scanned in and scanned out in minutes. The 2 boxes that did make it through, one was delivered on May 7 and the other was delivered on May 8. One was dropped off with my roommate and the other I was home for and had to sign for. It's the fact that it's the exact same customs office and shipped from the same bulk supplier as the story above that I know in no way will I sign for that now, especially if it sits there for a couple more weeks like his did and I'm pretty sure mine will. To be honest I'm hoping it sits there for a couple more weeks now; just to give me lots of time to get my ducks in a row. I'm not thinking that the 2 initial deliveries will hurt me too much

 

[cplus]

I ordered powdered MHRB back in march 2nd its still being held in Mississauga customs... Haven't received any seizure letter. Also check your inbox I have a question...

I should also add I just decided to check the site i ordered from and it has been shutdown.

 

[Vikingsc]

Hey man, can you keep me updated if the status of your mimosa in customs changes at all? If it's been in that same Mississauga customs for 2 1/2 months, under no circumstances should you sign for that package if it does make its way out of there.

I'll reply to your message right away here.