Is DMT a 5ht3 agonist?

[Sabnock1990]

It does not seem that harmalas have any direct effect on 5-HT3, so DMT likely does something at this receptor site (other than nausea) that has an influence on anxiety and visual hallucinations.

I think this action of antagonizing 5-HT3 is very telling as to how DMT works whether or not DMT has any direct action on 5-HT3.

People seem to get a similar lack of visuals with lemon EO on DMT as well as other psychedelics. The mechanism of lemon EO is not entirely understood, but it is known that it does have some 5-HT3 binding properties, so it is at least in the same arena as Zofran. And much of the same applies to ginger and peppermint.

Well i'm thinking neither Harmalas nor DMT have actions on 5-HT3. I've experienced an alteration of the Harmalas and the DMT by Zofran when i took too much Zofran those few times, as well as with Ginger a few times. I don't think it's so much that it's counteracting anything the Harmalas or DMT are doing, but rather, Zofran has it's own effects because i for one certainly notice effects from Zofran by itself, and combined with the Harmalas and DMT, it alters both in a very weird way. I remember the Harmalas feeling nearly non-existent, and the DMT being very altered and weird, same goes for Ginger. It's like the effects of too much Zofran or Ginger overpowers and can alter the effects of the Harmalas and the DMT, so it's not necessarily counteracting anything the Harmalas or DMT are doing, it's exerting it's own effects and overriding/overpowering the effects of the Harmalas or DMT.

As for Lemon EO, i've had it with Acacia/Mimosa and Rue/Harmalas a few times before, and it seemed to do fine though i do think it altered the DMT part but in an interesting way so i've really gotta re-investigate that, but so far it seems that it cleans up the Rue/Harmala's physical feelings/effects, much like Lemon Balm does, and the Lemon EO seems to reduce or prevent nausea and perhaps vomiting from the Harmalas (at least enough to build up the Harmala reverse tolerance so that the Lemon EO is no longer needed). I can't speak to if it reduced visuals or not, but most of the reports i've read people have had success with it and didn't mention any reduction of visuals. With that said though, Alpha-Pinene is said to be a positive allosteric modulator of GABA-A, and so too much Lemon EO could potentially reduce visuals, but i say just use as much as necessary to deal with the nausea/vomiting or to flavor/color/alter the experience without using too much. Lemon Balm contains Rosmarinic Acid which inhibits GABA-Transaminase and i've mixed that with Acacia and Rue/Harmalas quite a lot, wonderful synergy, but too much Lemon Balm does seem to dull things down, it's about finding that right balance. As for visuals though, i rarely get visuals even with super strong dosages for some odd reason, though i get visuals with Psilohuasca, but even if i did i wouldn't focus on the visuals so much, Aya/Pharma for me anyways is more about feeling, the mental stuff, and some spiritual stuff, but it's never been about visuals for me, i think people who focus too much on visuals can miss out on some of the other aspects of this kind of medicine.

 

[Sabnock1990]

I would also like to point out that for me, the nausea from Aya/pharmahuasca is a completely different animal than what I feel on harmine alone. It is not enough to say that DMT amplifies the nausea from harmine. I don't get anything remotely like food poisoning from harmine. It's more like, "Oh shit, the room is spinning and it's making me nauseous." When mixing in the DMT, it feels more like I just ate a pile of rotten meat and pathogens are destroying my gut. The vertigo effects from the harmalas are still there in the background, but unless I'm consciously thinking about it, it doesn't even matter.

I realize that this is very subjective, especially since I'm inebriated, but this is how I experience it.

If you were to take a higher/heavier dosage of Harmalas or Harmine, you'd get the same sickness. Harmine, from my understanding, is pretty weak and gentle compared to Harmaline, Harmaline is much more potent apparently or has other effects that Harmine doesn't have that makes it more noticeable. But the reason you don't get that sickness from Harmine alone, is because you haven't taken enough Harmine for those effects to become noticeable. As i said earlier, adding the DMT in the mix brings out the Harmala's effects more, so you notice effects of the Harmalas that you don't notice with a moderate dosage of the Harmalas by themselves, unless you take a good strong dosage of the Harmalas. Because Harmine is weaker/gentler, you're unlikely to notice much of anything sickness-wise with a moderate dosage of Harmine by itself, but the more you consume, the stronger the dosage gets, and the more the side-effects come out.

 

[syberdelic]

delete me

 

[syberdelic]

delete me

 

[syberdelic]

The lack of excitement over this discovery is very disheartening.

Nobody has anything to say about this?

 

[SnozzleBerry]

The lack of excitement over this discovery is very disheartening.

Nobody has anything to say about this?

Ok, I'll bite. It seems like you're painting with an incredibly broad brush and making extrapolations that appear (to me, a complete and utter nonexpert in the subject matter) to be unfounded and unsupported by the literature you're citing.

Please forgive my bluntness, but I just don't see any clear connections between these findings and DMT. If you look at the papers cited by the paper you cited they don't actually provide evidence to support your extrapolation. One of the papers deals exclusively with the administration of SA4503 and the other paper has nothing to do with DMT, instead presenting a select list of σ ligands that support the assertion you are holding up.

Again, forgive me for saying so, but this isn't the first time you appear to be making rather tenuous extrapolations based on sources that really don't say what you seem to be attributing to them. I don't mean this as an attack on you, but I think it may explain why there's not much excitement about this...there's not really evidence for what you appear to be asserting. Is it a possible theory? Sure, why not. But it doesn't seem like there's data that should lead to excitement/adherence to the theory. If I'm missing something, please let me know

 

[syberdelic]

delete me

 

[Sabnock1990]

I for one am willing to put almost anything to the test, but i'm currently on a break, when i get back to my experimentation though i'm definitely going to find a good Acetylcholinesterase inhibitor and mix it with Moclobemide+Acacia or Mimosa and see what, if anything, comes from it. I really do think the Acetylcholinesterase inhibition from the Harmalas plays a large role, i could be wrong, but that's what it seems like. I'm not sure that the Acetylcholinesterase inhibition is all that's going on, but i feel like it's a big part of it.

I do hope we get this thing figured out in the time to come though, it's all well and good to just accept the purge as part of an experience, but i've had plenty of purge-free experiences and i much like the purge-free experiences better, allows me to better focus on the glory and power of this medicine without being distracted by the physical sickness.