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Is our reality a school/prison also after this life?

Migrated topic.
Your conspiracies are the wood that fuels the fire against every sensible drug law that has ever been attempted.

I'll just repeat every time you say something destructive. There isn't any convincing you yourself, of course, but perhaps I can prevent others from falling prey to such ideas. Just know that you are hurting every practical cause related to entheogens with your behavior.
 
Obviously.

The only laws that we can hope for are ones that allow people to use entheogens for genuine spiritual purposes. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act has already been adopted, but courts have not applied it favorably. We need precedent in our favor to change that.

Additionally, I believe your ideas to be childish. They quite literally sound like a child's nightmare after watching a horror flick that they were too young for.
 
Kartikay said:
Additionally, I believe your ideas to be childish. They quite literally sound like a child's nightmare after watching a horror flick that they were too young for.

About your ideas, not you. i.e. About your topic. If you didn't spread such foolishness, I would have no reason to condemn your ideas.
 
I think its all too personal now.

people seem to be taking this discussion as some sort of attempt to overthrough the government or humanity as we know it:shock:

lets just calm it down do a FRENZY for a moment:d :d :d

I feel like observationtype is being made out to be some sort sort of antichrist here lol ( please forgive my intented religious pun)

observationtype without doubt is articulate even dramatic and poetic in his replies, but hey guys/gals they are only replies which clearly are highly questionable, subjective and imaginative. infact such claims should be subject to extreme scrutiny!!

but are we debating about his theory now or his intentions??? it seems the latter. why has this thread caused such a panic stricken overreaction in terms of someones intentions??

I respect the scientific approach and indignation expressd from some of our well informed and educated individuals but cant you see that in the OP's proposed theoretical setting, science exists as part of his prison, within pre determened perameters, so therfore is void and has no validity in his proposed world.


infact arguing science here is like banging against a brick wall:d
is this not playing into his hand so to speak?

myself being a self confesed drama queen ( lol just ask OAC lol) who enjoys the challenge and imaginative wonder of letting the mind escape ( no obso! behave yourself not form the prison!:d :d )from such pre determined and perceptually definitive frames of mind to atleast humour such grand and incredible alternitives to our existence. I have been able to accept that this as a concept is neither here nor there, we can not prove it wrong, obso can certainly not prove it right..

so instead of turning this into a bitchfest why dont we relax a little and explore further, maybe then obsorvatintype could seriously be shot down and have his own theory ridiculed and dismisssed from a soapbox he could not destroy....THE IMAGINATTION


in referance to katikay who may i add even within this discussion has proved to be a great, intelligent and diverse member of this community with life experience and skills and Im sure experiences we will be privaliged to hear in the future... I however disagree with your damming verdict regarding ( now please correct me friend if i have misuderstood, its possible:d )

you feel that people expressing their deeply personal and yes subjective experiences with dmt and other entheogens specifically regarding alien/entity contact jeapordises and threatens our world wide community in terms of how we are perceived by the law?

my man, if this is the case then what are we to do? bottle it all up? god dam I would endup in the next padded cell to obsevation type :)lol: ) trying to suppress such profound and tangible feelings.

and having a signature preaching against obsorvationtpes theories actually looks like a conspiracy theory in action against anothr conspiracy theory, who is more paranoid here you or him??

for what its worth I can see you are incensed at his claims, i respect your fury kari, but this kind of thing turns a discusion in to A witchhunt however unintentionally , you may be influencing others opinions yourself by taking such action.
I admire your enthusiasm but im sure the readers can make up their own minds.

the traveler would close this thread faster than a glasgow city centre hooker drops her panties if it was as dangerous as you think friend, so leave it up to him.

finally as it seems to be now relevant I do understand the fear and defense mechanism automated towards conspiracy theories,
when such theories become obssessive they threfore may result in danger to others in the wrong hands/minds.

obsrvationtype is not quite at the gallows yet

did he fall or was he pushed:?: :d

:)d good grief, did i mention i was a drama queen lol)

take care you all:wink:
 
Observationtype is clearly either a fruitcake or a "matrix agent":shock: , so why is so much time and energy being devoted to this?


Pokey the Matrix Agent:shock:
 
I actually got really excited because I didn't see the CAPS LOCK thread title anymore and thought the Traveler had taken it down. But no such luck :(

You're right, ambi, others do talk about aliens and such conspiracies too. This particular time, though, it is every conspiracy I've ever heard combined into a single thread! But yes, others will make up their own mind either way. I guess I'm terrified that phrases like "matrix-agents" will make its way into the wiki and destroy the legitimate culture that exists here. Probably an unfounded fear... I really just hate the idea of those ideas becoming even semi-popular among one of the leading psychedelic communities, like (god forbid), these ideas making it out of the Nursery. DMT-nexus is one of the few good communities that exist for this culture. We've talked about aliens and the like in other threads... but nothing this extreme. This really is very extreme. I don't want to see it associated with psychedelics of any kind.
 
observationtype said:
I have not yet used DMT, although the day is fast approaching.

Have you considered not taking it and to rather try meditation? Just completely still your mind or think of your true being. Seriously, I believe this to be a saner approach even though it is harder. I believe, that the intensity is equal in the end. Well, it is your decision. I do not want to arrogate to myself making any decisions for you.


I don't believe more than a miniscule percentage of people could reach the level we do, just on meditation. Especialy without a master guide and following one of the ancient systems... The plants on the other hand, gives every one a fair chance to experience more of our true nature.
 
observationtype said:
Anyone ever heard of what Carlos Castaneda/Don Juan Matus taught? His teachings are also somehow related to the Toltec Shamanism.


They also mention some kind of predatory entity which sucks on your lifeforce.

Enigma of a sorcerer Confusion about Carlos - Open Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Hell yeah watch out for the "inorganic beings" and the "Eagle at the end of time" they will suck you dry.
I am well aware believe me. I woke up long ago sometime I wish I was still asleep.

Carlos has passed away I wonder if the "Blue Scout" is still alive you know the apparently human being that was rescued from the "Second Attention" I bet the Blue Scout had a hell of a Time getting proper ID with no birth certificate or other proof of existance:lol:

Yes friend I have all the early books in my library as well as many other esoteric books. I really enjoy the Human religious experience as well as Human Mythology. I am also a science hard head yes i have the best of both worlds and have been spending way to much time reading both of them for many years. I read everything it does not mean i am easily brain washed in fact it is quite the opposite.

The only prison is the mind of someone who believes with out questioning and that is a shame.

Best wishes to you my friend:)

Peace
MV
 
Observation if anything you should write a sci fi novel about all this. If your really that into it. That would be interesting and productive and I always thought themes like this make cool stories. But beyond that:

I wouldn't go that far and stating that. I understand very well that reality can also be (only) subjective. I mean, I could exist alone and not realize it. Still, I believe that we are bound by the same laws of nature.

There is an objective component to reality. Anyone who claims that reality is only subjective never explains how you can have a subjective experience without an objective world. It doesn't even make sense and believe me if you read some of the debates we've had on this website I've heard all the claims you can think of. None are satisfactory.

Why does the word "consensus reality" exist?

Because people believe pseudoscientific nonsense sold in the bookstore or they think "what the bleep do we know" is an accurate description of modern physics and science. Well its not and I'd rather not explain why (AGAIN! not to you but I've explained this many times to others). But I can give you some interesting articles if you want to know why its a modern day myth?

There is another thing which I would like to mention if you face spiritless humans. If you somehow wonder about their quickness or eloquence in reaction to your words; in the sense of "No, I do not believe that he is a spiritless human, I can sense this by noticing how he/she reacts" then please think about what DMT users report: they realize that time does not exist in higher realms. This means that any being inhabiting this timeless space can always answer and think more quickly than you can; the spiritless humans can answer and think more quickly then you can because they are steered from this place. Keep this in mind and think twice if you evaluate.

If you actually believe this I dunno. First I would say you might be schizophrenic. But you seem coherent you can use the internet you can type whole sentences you can follow one train of thought into another train of thought. So I don't think thats the case.

So I ask why? Why the hell would anyone in their right mind believe that there is such thing as spiritless human beings and spiritful human beings? I don't believe in the concept of spirit so to me all your arguments are totally meaningless.

But seriously this kind of paranoia that your indulging in is very similar to that which sociopaths and psychotics talk about. Pod people this sorta thing. Be careful with your brain. I don't think someone like you should use psychedelics it might send you over the deep end.

The only laws that we can hope for are ones that allow people to use entheogens for genuine spiritual purposes. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act has already been adopted, but courts have not applied it favorably. We need precedent in our favor to change that.

I disagree. Science can show that psychedelics can be used safely and for therapuetic benefit. THis alone is enough to change their status. More importantly though it should be viewed as a personal rights issue and not a religious/spiritual issue. I've personally benefited enormously from psychedelics and am not a spiritual or religious person at all.

But I do agree that psychobabbling about conspiracies and associating them with psychedelics does nothing but create a negative imagine of psychedelic drugs. It really does.
 
Hmmmm, i may sound dumb but...

So I ask why? Why the hell would anyone in their right mind believe that there is such thing as spiritless human beings and spiritful human beings?

Short GeorgeCarlinesque answer: Because it makes them feel good about themselves. /me looks at the audience with the get-off-my-patio-crancy-old-man comical expression.

I think because people like distinctions of "Us VS Them",where one group is thought to be somehow superior and the other one inferior ( or to use deeply rooted ,heh almost archetypal /primary school terms, Good and Bad - bad not in the form of evil always but in the form of carrier of non desirable trait). This "Us vs Them" notion exists i think for any trait imaginable, from political/sexual preferences to <insert your favorite or humoristically obscure> trait. Its funny though ,that with almost mathematical certainty, when one plays the "Us vs Them" card is always considering himself to be on the "good"/favorable side.Heh, it would be fun to see the opposite, personally i think a monologue on it could make amazing stand up comedy material : "Well i am a filthy <insert stereotypically "inferior" category and continue in the Us vs Them line of thought>"

I am not attacking anyone, i am just stating that such a notion is all too familiar and different circles have different values they consider "Us" : you have the Rich, the Awakened*,the Enlightened*, the whites, the swallowers, the spitters ,those that preffer the crust on their bread, those that preffer the morning crust on their lips.Hey, why not soulful and souless? Such a distinction could be fundamental down to the core,an ultimate distinction!

I wonder though...Isnt it a Global feeling? Maybe what "Us" believes about "Them", "Them" believes about "Us" each using as a criterion an X value.

In the present case, i think a comic speaks louder than words :

sheeple.png





*Hmmm, lemme try my hand on inventing a catchphrase. "The only Enlightened and Awakened people i have met, are the ones that pay their electricity bills and never forget to set their alarm clocks on!"
 
Ah thats the thing,i did not speak about your intentions but about human psychology ;)

"Us vs Them"

"Us -the free ones- vs Them -those you want to keep you imprisoned-"

Archetypal Good vs Archetypal Bad.

While there are consiracies*, i think the most dangerous "those" resides within us,our selfimposed limits and norms. It takes two to tango,and under the context it is discussed here you shouldnt worry about "those" : they need your permission, your signature, your explicit cooperation to get to you. One can escape the "imprisonment" in norms/societal limits/stereotypes without getting imprisoned or having to live outside of organised society as we know it.

So are all OTHER people glassy eyed automata and we the blessed ones?

Cant we understand and accept one another without resorting to generalizing inferior/superior dualisms ?

*important!!! This term is misused manytimes. I use it as : People that will harm you or limit your freedom not because they get some twisted pleasure out of it (just for the hell of it) -for many its not an end in itself- ,they just hunt their own gain not considering if someone gets hurt in the proccess.There is a big difference here,if we consider someone out to get you/harm you then as a target its easy to get into the "worthy survivor/hero" mentality and consider others "enslaved sheeple". If we consider someone trying to have personal gain and harm caused to you for him/her is irrelevant, then one just has to...step aside and not be a target,no need for "Slaves" and juxtaposed "Heroes" infront of an all controling Pursuer.

Yup, sounds less glorious and noble but...it might be the case also!You might be awestruck at how many people would not self-identify as "Sheeple" or might identify "you" or "us" as Sheeple,with them being the thinking ones.

I can aknowledge though that we come from different paths propably, and we have different understanding of the world, different worldview. Its nice to share.
 
Because if i was refering to you,with utmost certainty that this is your motive, i would have said so clearly and beyond any room for doubt. Even better it would be to ask you if you perceive it to be true about yourself,then we would move from general to personal ,but i do not know if this is the point of this thread or if you want to keep it in a more general context.

I read the thread indeed.Lets substitute the "blessed ones" with "spiritful ones" juxtaposed to the "spiritless ones". You gave me the impression that you consider for example yourself having a spirit and being able to see if others are spiritless,commenting also that its easy for you to distinguish between a spiritles one and one with a spirit.

From your own understanding, do you perceive yourself as spiritless or spiritful?
 
Whatever your totally deluded and not worth argeuing with.

Just so you know. You can always tell someone who is not worth argueing with when they completely ignore all your points and only refer you back to their original points which are just as baseless as they were in the beginning of the conversation. Soliphism is not excuse to believe in bullshit you dumbass.
 
Ob, interesting topic. I had stumbled upon a rather interesting and lucid trip report that has certain similarities to what your implying:

I have had much experience in the realm of the unknown. DMT had opened many doors in the past... or is it the future, I sometimes forget. At any rate, that doesn't matter much right now. It was around 12pm, the sun was in full view, and the wind was gently blowing through the window, the fans catching the breeze. I was ready.

T -24hr

I had fasted for 24 hours, drinking only water, and excercising moderately over those hours, and sleeping for a full 7 hours.

T -5hr

I drank a lot of water early in the morning and went for a walk to prepare my conciousness for the journey I was about to go on.

T - 10min

I packed my handmade inline perc, with a rather large pinch of Salvia extract. I have had a select few experiences with it before, and had rather profound visions of alternate realities. The DMT packed on top was fresh, made a couple days before by a friend from M.Hostilis. It was a clear/yellow shard, and very dense. I prepared myself by putting on a DNA activation mp3, which was a very dull tonal synth melody.

T - 5min

I stripped down to my boxers, to avoid any potential constriction whilst rolling around.

T- 2min

I sat on my bed, meditating for a time. Finally, once I was in the zone, I put the screen over the bowl so as to not burn that beautiful DMT crystal.

T +/- 0

I exhaled deeply, and sparked the bowl. I slowly pulled, Taking care to fully expand my lungs. With the tube cashed, I sat it down on the floor and layed back, whilst holding my breath.

T + 30sec

I lost the ability to see the material world almost immediately, and was sucked into the bed, enveloped by a technicolour web of energy and light. It was soon replaced with what I would call dark matter. A black hole was swallowing me, swirling and enveloping the universe from where I had been blasted off. I had become a singularity, if only for a glimpse of a second.

T + 1min

The feeling of dark pressure had finally torn me apart, I was no longer in my physical vessel. I had become an interweaving series of these multi coloured tubes, which formed into a great machine of sorts. I drifted away from my own soul, as those I were becoming something more... or like I was being reconstructed. I awoke, and I was in a morgue? It was more like a research labratory, everything was white, Immaculate. These pulsating sounds, like a piledriver, were rhythmically breathing.

T + 3min

I became aware of the situation. My face was in front of a screen. I was inside a casket? or a drawer of sorts. I was not breathing, I was back in material form. Naked. I am freezing. I realized the situation as I saw metallic tubes sticking out of my every joint, pumping a metallic crystal substance into my lifeless body... Am I dreaming? What the hell is this? I forced the drawer open, pulling the tubes out of my body.

I was not expected to wake up, was I?

I jump out, only to find an infinite number of all of these drawers. They were neatly aligned, like a library. They had humans, humanoids, outright monsters, and beings that I just couldn't begin to understand, and all of them were in the catatonic state I had previously been in. It was just beyond my comprehension. Immediately, I came to the conclusion I was not supposed to be standing up, awake.

Where am I?

How did I get here?

What is the meaning of this?

Immediately, a voice jumps into my thoughts, explaining that this is where you go when you fall asleep. All of the races go there. Together, in their slumber, their thoughts intertwine, intermingle, to form the web I would best understand as the multiverses. The voice explained that our collective conciousness is what keeps the multiverse in existance.

It was horrible. We are enslaved in our sleep, harvested to allow this garganttuan machine made out of glass and light to pump all of our energy around at high speeds. I ran. I knew exactly where to go. I found the tremendous disk. It was silver, and solid to the touch. I pushed on it slightly, and it bounced back, resonating my own voice. It asked me why I wanted to escape, if I knew the implications of returning with this knowledge. I didn't care. Do what thou wilt. That is the power of man. I pushed through, I jumped sooooo slowly. Finally, as I flew through this tunnel with alternating perpendicular rungs of a ladder, they slid this way and that, forcing me to take alternate routes. It seemed as though I never had a choice in the matter.

T + 15min

I opened my eyes and I was naked, staring at myself in the mirror in my bathroom at home. How did I end up here? Where was this place? Was I really just in my head? My eyes were flickering different colors, they were phasing through a rainbow, finally settling at silver blue for a time... Which is odd because my eyes are normally honey brown. I was sweating profusely. I ran to my notepad, and scribbled down a little drawing of what I saw and what you read right now. My radio was not playing what I had set it to. It had a faint voice coming from it, very distorted and synthesized. It was mumbling things that I will never repeat.

T + 22min

I am finally back to baseline. The afterglow from this is mind numbing. I am coughing up weird dry chunky white stuff... what is this? I am very very parched. I am starving.

T + 25min

I am back. This place is so strange. So pointless. We all need to set aside our differences, our greed, our anger. We need to live in a state of love, rythm, joy. I hope one day we will all wake up, and smash that fucking dream machine. It is a trap. It is there to enslave our energy. We should be in control of our own souls, our own destiny. Collectively as a race, and separately. No more war. I am not afraid of death, but I truely appreciate the beauty of life quite a bit more.

I may further experiment, but the lessons I learned internally are so profound I think I may take a break from tryptimines.
 
burnt said:
Whatever your totally deluded and not worth argeuing with.

Just so you know. You can always tell someone who is not worth argueing with when they completely ignore all your points and only refer you back to their original points which are just as baseless as they were in the beginning of the conversation. Soliphism is not excuse to believe in bullshit you dumbass.


OK Burnt I am calling you out Bro you can not be calling people dumb asses. Your adding fuel to the fire and disrespecting the rational view point. No need for insults directed at individuals:lol:

Lets stick to a philosophical debate format individual arguments hold no validity as we all know the opinion of one no matter how visionary or personally important means nothing in the face of the big pix.

I am proudly the number one user of the word bullshit but I try to direct it at entire belief systems not individuals.
My argument is not personnel but factual. There are plenty of dumbasses around we all know that already friend. Please do not point out another I have seen enough already.:lol:


Peace
MV
 
yes please, lets remain civil here, no need for personal attacks no matter how wrong someone else may be.. If one feels the other is VERY mistaken, well, then better to maintain the higher ground and be calm and objective and have your conscience clean, than to resort to personal attacks when being frustrated at the lack of expected responses, no matter how obvious something may seem.

peace :)
 
What bothers me a bit about this Spiritless People Theory is the following -

My brother received my Mother as a Spiritless being until he tried to strangulate her to death -
ignoring every crocodile tear she wept along the way. What was his motivation ...?

He sees most people as worthless , spiritless beings ,his whole family and "friends" + girlfriend included,
its part of his philosophy/pathology. And there he sits on top of his throne of self hatred - projecting outwards.

His fight against humanity isnt over yet , i suppose .

Aren't all so called spiritless ,the victims of tele-vision ?
Should they explore the Realms of BDSM instead of the Realms of DMT ?

Who are those Suicide Bombers ?

*stuck in complexity*
 
Nobody here should be disregarding a viewpoint as irrational. I mean, if you are you need to take a step back and look at what we are talking about on this website. We have all driven ourselves insane in the pursuit of knowledge through spice. All viewpoints are rational when it comes down to it. Jewish space zombie? Pft. Chinese sun-birds? Pft. Hyperspace? Pft. Aliens? Pft. Matrix-Agents? Cuhhhraaaazyyyyyy!

We're all crazy here people, do not put your insanity above someone else's.
 
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