Ketamine also leads to problems with thinking, memory, and concentration.

[Daquan Gibson]

Hello to all,

Ketamine also leads to problems with thinking, memory, and concentration.

Ketamine, which is used as an anesthetic in veterinary medicine, gives its users hallucinations, an “out of body” feeling, and feelings of euphoria or a dream-like state. It is swallowed, injected, or snorted. Ketamine also leads to problems with thinking, memory, and concentration.

A new study followed over 1,200 people who had used ketamine in the last year. Of the users, 17% were addicted to it, and 26% of users had experienced urinary problems, including pain in the lower abdomen, burning or stinging during urination, bloody urine, and incontinence (urine leakage).

The severity of urinary symptoms was connected to how often and the size of the dose of ketamine the participants used.

Half the participants reported that their symptoms improved after they stopped using the drug. A small minority (4%) said they continued to have symptoms after they ceased use.

Ketamine is known to cause irritation and inflammation of the mucous membranes, as well as thickening of the bladder wall and kidney problems. But the exact mechanisms by which ketamine actually causes these changes in the urinary tract are not well understood.

With Regards,
Daquan Gibson

 

[Leon Trout]

ketamine has also been reported to cause me to have problems with gaping holes in my finances...

:shock:

 

[Kash]

Ya something about ketamine just tells me to stay away... Its really popular at music festivals right now it seems to be everywhere.

 

[cirquefreak333]

I read I think on erowid that it can cause lesions in the brain. I've tried it, it wasn't really a pleasant experience, it was interesting though, it was like I didn't exist. I don't think it was exactly ego loss though, more like I was sucked into a black hole.

 

[The_Aviator]

This is mostly the fault of the users, not the substance itself. People will find ways to damage themselves with almost any drug.

Ketamine has some very legitimate spiritual and otherwise philosophical uses. But I prefer methoxetamine over ketamine. Some of the revelations and ideas that I have had on dissociatives (mxe) have been just as useful and important as revelations I have had on psychedelics. Unfortunately people are more interested in getting "fucked up" so this can lead to addiction, health problems, and general misuse.

 

[Guyomech]

My few experiences with K were vibrant and ecstatic. But the crackhead-style cravings the next day gave me pause. None of my preferred substances of choice have that effect.

Meanwhile, I have two good friends whose lives have gone down the crapper from using K (in both cases, injected daily). Poor health, bad memory, no money, failure to live up to the simplest commitments. Again, none of my preferred substances of choice seem to have this effect.

I don't mean to disagree with The Aviator, as I have had legitimate psychedelic revelations on K. But I do believe that its potential users need to clearly understand that it can suck you in- and down- in a way that other psychedelics generally don't.

 

[VibeCatalyst]

This is mostly the fault of the users, not the substance itself. People will find ways to damage themselves with almost any drug.

Ketamine has some very legitimate spiritual and otherwise philosophical uses. But I prefer methoxetamine over ketamine. Some of the revelations and ideas that I have had on dissociatives (mxe) have been just as useful and important as revelations I have had on psychedelics. Unfortunately people are more interested in getting "fucked up" so this can lead to addiction, health problems, and general misuse.

Yup... I believe dissociatives espessally ketamine, if used properly can certainty give an altered state trip to the user to allow spiritual experiance and deep philosophical thinking, I think by calming down/ shutting off certain parts of the brain it allows you to spend less brain power on typical sober brain activity and environmental Distractions that the mind is so used to interacting and focusing on. Yet its seems that it can be more disorienting and harder to recall the trip. And of course it can lead to psychological addiction if used enough especially when using for euphoric purposes alone.

 

[Global]

This is mostly the fault of the users, not the substance itself. People will find ways to damage themselves with almost any drug.

Ketamine has some very legitimate spiritual and otherwise philosophical uses. But I prefer methoxetamine over ketamine. Some of the revelations and ideas that I have had on dissociatives (mxe) have been just as useful and important as revelations I have had on psychedelics. Unfortunately people are more interested in getting "fucked up" so this can lead to addiction, health problems, and general misuse.

Yet isn't it possible that even for a user who only has philosophical/spiritual trips, that this in and of itself does not make them immune to the nasty physical side effects?

 

[MomentOfTruth]

Maybe this is an obvious question, but... is anyone suprised?

I mean... you're injecting cat tranquilizer! What did you expect? lol

I've tried it twice, both times were just a couple weeks ago after a local festival when my buddy had it. I snorted a line both times. Both times were very strange, but somewhat pleasurable. I didn't find it to really have any kind of long term appeal to myself, but i figured i'd atleast try it to see what all the hype was about.

I am fairly certain i will never purchase any of this stuff.

 

[polytrip]

I find these class of dissociatives (nmda-antagonsists) a bit scary to be honest. It´s true that higher doses can make you enter other worlds and other reality´s like DMT can, but your awareness is definately lowered. They don´t realy allow you to experience anything very counsciously. Especially with high doses the chance of just blacking out is huge.

I would also be very carefull with stuff like MXE. These type of drugs tend to be quite addictive. It´s like taking a psychedelic version of heroin in that sense.

 

[benzyme]

I find these alarmist/reductionist thoughts on the arylcyclohexylamines rather amusing.
If you want to talk about actual neurotoxicity, and lapses in memory, behavioral changes, mood, etc., we could make a case for MDMA (yes, even pure MDMA).

Sernylan (PCP HCl) was found to reduce the excitotoxicity-induced brain damage following a stroke. Ketamine is a very effective antidepressant. Addiction from these substances are largely psychological, not physical dependence.

NMDA-antagonists have therapeutic value, but like anything else, it's a matter of dosage.

 

[polytrip]

I find these alarmist/reductionist thoughts on the arylcyclohexylamines rather amusing.
If you want to talk about actual neurotoxicity, and lapses in memory, behavioral changes, mood, etc., we could make a case for MDMA (yes, even pure MDMA).

Sernylan (PCP HCl) was found to reduce the excitotoxicity-induced brain damage following a stroke. Ketamine is a very effective antidepressant. Addiction from these substances are largely psychological, not physical dependence.

NMDA-antagonists have therapeutic value, but like anything else, it's a matter of dosage.

You´re probably right. My judgement ain´t fair. I don´t like the effects of NMDA-antagonists. They remind me of operating-rooms.

 

[Eliyahu]

Ya something about ketamine just tells me to stay away... Its really popular at music festivals right now it seems to be everywhere.

I was doing Ket for a while hear and there, actually had some rather profound LSD like experiences off it as I was getting a super high grade form of it for a while...

As I kept doing it I noticed that the quality varied greatly from one batch to the next...
some K would make me very nausiated and some K was smooth.

The last time I did "K" it turned out to actually be PCP that was very cut(weakened).

Because the threshold efects of the 2 are similar I didn't notice the MAJOR diference until I smoked some..........IT SUCKED. I felt an array of rather unpleasant flashback like effects for 2-3 months after using it...I took it as a sign to cease and decist my K usage.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

As someone who is generally a fan of the dissos, and finds them to be immensely useful and therapeutic... I must concur that they can be moar-ish in ways that classic psychedelics simply are not.

DXM never made me want to redose the next day, but MXE, Ketamine and (to a far lesser degree) the meo PCPs can be wicked like that. It is not unlike the craving to smoke a bowl on your 1st day of quitting weed. There is clear addictive potential there... Comparing it to heroin, cigarettes or crack is kind of ridiculous though.

MXE especially was just too easy, comfortable and clear. Ket and the various PCPs have an edge to them that pushes me away from them. MXE is just clear. In fact, I felt it was improving my memory and concentration. I still think that it did. Whereas DXM was clearly memory inhibiting and had minor cognitive isues... and ketamine to some degree as well... MXE made my thinking more sharp and logical. And furthermore, there was none of that delusional thinking that sometimes causes you to question your amazing revelations on good LSD. L always makes me feel like my mind is operating on 400% and to some degree it is... but it also causes me to make connections that don't always hold up under scrutiny the next day in the glare of a sober sun. My MXE experiences were basically always sharp and my mind as good or better than normal.

3 meo PCP was interesting, and had some of the clarity of MXE for me... but has a kind of manic schizo edge to it, with no real K-hole, M-hole, or 3rd Plateau (the part I liked best about those dissos). I never even bothered to finish off the sample I had of that stuff, but rather gave it away to others who wanted to play with it.

Anyway, I suppose it was the mu receptors and slightly opiod-ish aspects of MXE that made it addictive for me. I had to force myself to stop using it and still occasionally get the urge to dive into it. Sadly, though, a little binge period on MXE left me with a ridiculous tolerance to the stuff... one that carries over to the other dissos as well. I don't really see how people can get so abusive with these things for that reason alone. After a while, you can take ridiculous doses of the stuff and still never get to the realms that you used to reach with moderate dosages. For me that means time to quit.

As for the bladder and urinary issues... I think i started to experience them as well. Hard to say, as it wasn't severe, and the swollen feeling in the lower abdomen wasn't exactly where the bladder should be... and felt more like I might have tugged the cord to my left nut. A very mild hernia perhaps. The couple times I came down from a disso binge and peeing was mildly problematic made me think that this stuff is for the birds if it makes you feel like you might have a very mild UTI or venereal disease. But then it occurred to me that these compounds are seriously dehydrating. They rival hard alcohol in that respect, but often this is not accompanied by being thirsty. Combine a night on dissos with some whiskey, and coffee and mate in the morning without hydrating, and it is a recipe for disaster. I find you really have to force yourself to chug a few liters of water if you don't want problems. If you do hydrate well, the urinary thing disappears right away... so I hypothesize that the bladder and urinary issues that people say we haven't quite discovered the mechanics of is actually a very specific kind of dehydration. In such instances, your piss can be so thick and mineralized that it is really no wonder that it might irritate certain sensitive membranes.

 

[jamie]

^ I must say, you have been the sole factor sparking an interest within me over the last year or so in DXM! I have spent some times here and there just trolling sites like the dextroverse because I find some reports so facinating..and if I was to try any pharma NMDA antagonists I would try DXM I think.

Im not really interested in going there myself though..at least not atm..I have become more interested in the plant based NMDA antagonists like ibogaine and voacangine etc..

 

[Eliyahu]

^ I must say, you have been the sole factor sparking an interest within me over the last year or so in DXM! I have spent some times here and there just trolling sites like the dextroverse because I find some reports so facinating..and if I was to try any pharma NMDA antagonists I would try DXM I think.

Im not really interested in going there myself though..at least not atm..I have become more interested in the plant based NMDA antagonists like ibogaine and voacangine etc..

From my understanding DXM freebase is the way to go...I have not tried it myself yet though...

I have drank larg amounts of Deylsum cough syrup and experienced a "robo-walk" I found it to be very non-enjoyable at high doses but the freebase may be different...

Honestly I feel like DXM is one of the more toxic ones.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

^ I must say, you have been the sole factor sparking an interest within me over the last year or so in DXM! I have spent some times here and there just trolling sites like the dextroverse because I find some reports so facinating..and if I was to try any pharma NMDA antagonists I would try DXM I think.

Im not really interested in going there myself though..at least not atm..I have become more interested in the plant based NMDA antagonists like ibogaine and voacangine etc..

From my understanding DXM freebase is the way to go...I have not tried it myself yet though...

I have drank larg amounts of Deylsum cough syrup and experienced a "robo-walk" I found it to be very non-enjoyable at high doses but the freebase may be different...

Honestly I feel like DXM is one of the more toxic ones.

In a weird counter intuitive fashion, lower doses of DXM (the kind you might robo walk around on) are not nearly as comfortable or enjoyable as the 3rd Plateau IME. Of course, for most people, 3rd plateauing means finding a safe place to curl up in as close to complete darkness as possible.

People who chug some syrup and then want to use it like some poor man's Candy FLip (MDMA with a half hit of L) will be disappointed.

1st, don't chug syrup. If you can't find pure freebase or Hbr then extract.
2nd, DXM (and most dissos for that matter) don't shine if there is light. Hallucinations really are inversely proportional to the amount of light reaching your eyes. Even a couple stray LEDs in your room can bring the visuals down by a factor of 3 or 4. Be prepared though if you do achieve total darkness, as the hallucinations will be so real and vivid that you will find it very hard to feel your way to a light switch.
3rd, do your research. This is a very profound drug and one that can take you places that only Spice can surpass. 3rd plateaus done correctly can cause journeys with fully immersive visuals that actually surpass aya. At the very least, search these forums for my DXM redux thread and read through that.

DXM is not for everyone. Some people can't even digest it properly due to an insufficient liver enzyme. And a substance that can give you mad diarrhea, cause you to itch, and give you hotflashes... is bound to put off other folk as well. Emptying your bowels on the way up, taking a bath or shower at some point (be careful), and drinking plenty of water will get rid of those side effects... and to be honest, the Aya purge is more intrusive and annoying if only because dissos tend to make you not care about such minor inconveniences.

Having said all that, I do find that 2nd plateau doses can be mood elevating and anti depressing. The mild dissociation is also a nice platform for other drugs. (i.e. take a 2nd plateau DXM trip and then dose shrooms, L or cacti on top of that for a best of both worlds high... hit some spice and N20 just after the peak for some truly incredible easy access to hyperspace. Still, I don't recommend 2nd plateau DXMing, as at this level, and for the purpose I describe... MXE and other dissos work better. At least they are more reliable in typical set & setting scenarios.

Anyway, I guess I will shut up. I don't really relish my sometimes position on the Nexus as the go-to advocate for the dissociatives. There are real reasons to be careful with them... they just aren't nearly as toxic, dangerous, 2nd rate, or worthless as many make them out to be. Done correctly, they can be profound and life changing compounds. I will always treasure my experiences in that über cosmic headspace. Where most hallucinogens force you to wrestle with your egoic monkey mind... disso's simply dissolve it away. Before you really even recognize it, you have expanded into a vast mindspace in which ego is either lost and somewhat catatonic... or simply doesn't exist. Easiest ego death hands down.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

Oh, and jamie... glad that I sparked your curiosity.

I am fairly certain that you will do it in what I feel is a proper way, and I think you will find the experience to be impressive and worthwhile when all is said and done.

Take care my friend. Happy hunting.

HF

 

[benzyme]

I'd be interested in seeing what piri piri (cyperus articulatus) is all about.
the way to go about this is an alcoholic soxhlet extraction, to create a concentrated extract, the way salvia and kratom tinctures are (or at least should be) made.

 

[Kalagan]

Interesting.

I have only used it a few times and haven't experienced any of these complications, but my brother has been doing Ketamine for years (snorting) in good amounts, sometimes ending up in quite alarming states. I myself never really enjoyed it much...I mean once you've snorted that line, IMO you're pretty much on your own for the next hour or so..communication is difficult, moving around is challenging ect..unless you're used to it and have developed a tolerance to it I guess. But that's just me, I don't have much use for these effects.

I didn't know about the data on urinary problems until now, but it makes sense, in the past my brother has told me he had times when he experienced such things. Like Hyperspace Fool said, it could be due to dehydration. It probably affects the stomach and digestive system too if its use is regular and if you swallow instead of spitting while the drug is making effect, I've seen him having strong stomach pains actually, and he even told me that once he pooped blood :surprised

As for being spiritual, I don't know, it doesn't seem to have the profile for it but people have been reporting have spiritual insights while under its influence. Actually, I think that any perturbation of normal daily consciousness can lead to something apparently spiritual, depending of your definition of it.

Taking it from my brother again, he had OBE with it, open eyes hallucinations with higher doses, like seeing the skin of his hand melt and make bubbles etc..

I agree with The Aviator too, it seems people use it more for fun than its spiritual potential, would be interesting to see what it does with meditation and such.