Solvents in Australia

[DMTPanda]

Taking a stroll through a local Bunnings the other day, SWIM could really only find Shellite and Xylene as solvents for extraction.
Shellite leaving an oily residue and Xylene stinking like a major chemical spill, are there any other solvents that could be suggested to SWIM?

Toluene I believe is highly carcinogenic.

D-Limonene sounds ideal for its smell, safety, and pulling ability however I'm pretty sure it's not an available product in Australia.

Are there any other suggestions of what products that can be used for extracting Obtusifolia?

 

[reun]

Yep, extracting freebase from acacia acuminata. After mini a/b (some people call it a defat or backsalt) if you want solid white crystal and not goo with acacia you need to use shellite or n-heptane to freeze precip, so if your shellite is impure it will leave residue amongst the crystals at the end. I personally would definitely not consume this as it is and would never recommend anyone do so either, however there are a few ways to remove the shellite impurities after this that I'm aware of most of which involve redissolving the freebase in a cleaner solvent. The best way according to what I've read online is to recrystallize with n-heptane but as we know it's difficult/risky to acquire in Aus. Also if you have pure heptane there would not be a need for this as the final product would already be free of impurity from clean evap, assuming appropriate purification steps were taken prior to the final freeze precip. I've also read you can redissolve the freebase in anhydrous acetone to free the remaining shellite impurities and evaporate that. The other options are to use D-limonene for the final pulls of the extraction and slow evap that for a food safe pure dmt goo, or you can make an infused leaf blend by redissolving the freebase in isopropyl alcohol and adding this to a herb/leaf blend, (i just use plain mullein) allowing it to soak for a day or 2 then throughly drying the infused mix over a few days. So far my blends have been without issue, clean smooth smoke and no unwanted side effects. If any experts would like to chime in and explain if any of this is incorrect I'm always happy to learn and definitely don't intend to spread misinformation

Thanks for sharing!

The backsalt option doesn't sound appealing because it still requires heptane, so if you have that, you might as well do it right the first time.

I've found a few chemistry labs that seem to sell lab-grade heptane, but I feel a little uncomfortable about ordering it. You mentioned that it is difficult and risky to acquire this stuff -- do you know anything about that? I was trying to figure out just how risky would that be.

I thought that D-limonene does not freeze-precipitate either, but you're saying that it can be used to extract smokable freebase? It is much easier to find that stuff and it is far less dangerous to work with. It sounds like you've found a tek to extract freebase without heptane or shellite/naphtha -- would appreciate if you could share the details behind this tek!

 

[MrAcuminata]

So, you've been using Diggers even with failing evap tests? I thought it would produce a toxic product, isn't it so?

I'd love to hear about the "infused leaf with isopropyl alcohol to solve the residue problem" part! You are not talking about extracting freebase though, right?

Yep, extracting freebase from acacia acuminata. After mini a/b (some people call it a defat or backsalt) if you want solid white crystal and not goo with acacia you need to use shellite or n-heptane to freeze precip, so if your shellite is impure it will leave residue amongst the crystals at the end. I personally would definitely not consume this as it is and would never recommend anyone do so either, however there are a few ways to remove the shellite impurities after this that I'm aware of most of which involve redissolving the freebase in a cleaner solvent. The best way according to what I've read online is to recrystallize with n-heptane but as we know it's difficult/risky to acquire in Aus. Also if you have pure heptane there would not be a need for this as the final product would already be free of impurity from clean evap, assuming appropriate purification steps were taken prior to the final freeze precip. I've also read you can redissolve the freebase in anhydrous acetone to free the remaining shellite impurities and evaporate that. The other options are to use D-limonene for the final pulls of the extraction and slow evap that for a food safe pure dmt goo, or you can make an infused leaf blend by redissolving the freebase in isopropyl alcohol and adding this to a herb/leaf blend, (i just use plain mullein) allowing it to soak for a day or 2 then throughly drying the infused mix over a few days. So far my blends have been without issue, clean smooth smoke and no unwanted side effects. If any experts would like to chime in and explain if any of this is incorrect I'm always happy to learn and definitely don't intend to spread misinformation

I'm sorry, your question about infusing leaf prompted me to give it more thought and after a bit more research I have realised that this method is probably not viable because if the shellite impurities are solid, rather than what I originally thought about it being able to seperate from the dmt and evaporate out, it would more likely just dissolve and infuse into the leaf along with the dmt. I no longer recommend this as a workaround for impure shellite and apologise for spreading potentially hamful advice. I'm hoping that Sceneys will prove a reliable product and will instead switch to d-limonene to use for leaf infusion or just take the plunge and order the darned heptane.

 

[MrAcuminata]

It sounds like you've found a tek to extract freebase without heptane or shellite/naphtha -- would appreciate if you could share the details behind this tek!

Negative, my tek calls for the use of shellite/naphtha OR heptane before the freeze precip, sorry if that wasn't clear. A backsalt is not really necessary for Mimosa, but essential for acacia if you want crystal and a much higher concentration of JUST dmt and not the other alks present in acacia. If you were to substitute the shellite for d-limonene at the pulling stage you would not be able to freeze it, a slow evaporation would be required and the final result would be a food safe, pure goo assuming your d limonene is food grade. This goo however is still pure dmt freebase and can definitely be vaporized or used to make a leaf blend or to mix with PG for vape carts. The downside is it's sticky, hard to weigh/dose.

 

[reun]

Negative, my tek calls for the use of shellite/naphtha OR heptane before the freeze precip, sorry if that wasn't clear. A backsalt is not really necessary for Mimosa, but essential for acacia if you want crystal and a much higher concentration of JUST dmt and not the other alks present in acacia. If you were to substitute the shellite for d-limonene at the pulling stage you would not be able to freeze it, a slow evaporation would be required and the final result would be a food safe, pure goo assuming your d limonene is food grade. This goo however is still pure dmt freebase and can definitely be vaporized or used to make a leaf blend or to mix with PG for vape carts. The downside is it's sticky, hard to weigh/dose.

I see! I'm not a chemist and I'm still learning about some fundamentals here, so I may be asking naive questions at times!

Well, it sounds like a high-quality shellite is mandatory if you want to extract DMT crystals, however, if, for whatever reason this option is not available, then you can still extract smokable jungle spice, it'll just be harder to manage. That is reassuring to know. While I'd love to try pharmahuasca, I would still love to have the option to smoke DMT, so as long as there is a usable tek to achieve this in the absence of shellite, we have something to work with.

Anyway, as noted earlier, Sceneys shellite passed my evap test, if that failed, I could still try Bosca, and if that failed, then I could attempt to order lab-grade heptane (which I would feel very uneasy about). But for now, I have what I need for a few rounds of extraction.

 

[MrAcuminata]

I see! I'm not a chemist and I'm still learning about some fundamentals here, so I may be asking naive questions at times!

Well, it sounds like a high-quality shellite is mandatory if you want to extract DMT crystals, however, if, for whatever reason this option is not available, then you can still extract smokable jungle spice, it'll just be harder to manage. That is reassuring to know. While I'd love to try pharmahuasca, I would still love to have the option to smoke DMT, so as long as there is a usable tek to achieve this in the absence of shellite, we have something to work with.

Anyway, as noted earlier, Sceneys shellite passed my evap test, if that failed, I could still try Bosca, and if that failed, then I could attempt to order lab-grade heptane (which I would feel very uneasy about). But for now, I have what I need for a few rounds of extraction.

I am no chemist either my friend. The majority of my knowledge has been from info I found right here on the Nexus, reading through all the old threads about any topic you could imagine! I'm hoping to find some of the Sceneys myself at the art supplies stores in my area, if that passes the evap then we're golden. If not, I will be experimenting with using D-Limonene in place of shellite and making a leaf blend using the goo. Leaf blends are handy for people who don't have access to a good vape setup, which is a common issue with vapes being made illegal here in Aus. Will post results when I have them! Also excited to see how yours go too!

 

[reun]

I am no chemist either my friend. The majority of my knowledge has been from info I found right here on the Nexus, reading through all the old threads about any topic you could imagine! I'm hoping to find some of the Sceneys myself at the art supplies stores in my area, if that passes the evap then we're golden. If not, I will be experimenting with using D-Limonene in place of shellite and making a leaf blend using the goo. Leaf blends are handy for people who don't have access to a good vape setup, which is a common issue with vapes being made illegal here in Aus. Will post results when I have them! Also excited to see how yours go too!

Just wanted to make a suggestion concerning vapes: I will be travelling soon, so I might be able to get some overseas, but my backup option is BrandMyDispo, which seems to offer international deliveries. It'll be quite expensive, but may be worth a shot.

 

[Transform]

If you get really desperate, you may have to considei growing a plantation of Pinus jeffreyi:

Pinus jeffreyi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit: maybe Pittosporum resiniferum would be quicker:

Pittosporum resiniferum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MrAcuminata]

If you get really desperate, you may have to considei growing a plantation of Pinus jeffreyi:

Pinus jeffreyi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit: maybe Pittosporum resiniferum would be quicker:

Pittosporum resiniferum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's actually fascinating, is there a plant source out there for a suitable base to replace NaOH? If so one could literally have a self sufficient dmt farm if they were to grow that, mimosa/acacia, the heptane plants mentioned, whilst having the appropriate distilling equipment.

 

[Transform]

That's actually fascinating, is there a plant source out there for a suitable base to replace NaOH? If so one could literally have a self sufficient dmt farm if they were to grow that, mimosa/acacia, the heptane plants mentioned, whilst having the appropriate distilling equipment.

Wood ash plus lime makes (potash) lye, after a fashion. This is how the old soap makers did it before industrial soda lye production, although solar-powered membrane electrolysis of brine or other sodium salts would make more sense nowadays. If you chose the right mixture of sodium salts of carboxylic acids - namely butyric, isobutyric, and various isomers of valeric/pentanoic acid, you'd also produce a sort of naphtha via what is called Kolbe electrolysis, although that reaction's rather electrically inefficient. It would still complement the lye production a bit though.

If one starts getting into DIY technologies with lab gear and such, a number of possibilities start opening up. It's just a matter of how far one's willing to take it. Acetone from chalk and vinegar is a bit of a classic as well, for example.

The knowledge passed down to us from the ancients remains especially valuable now that obstacles to retail access on a number of useful materials have come into play. It becomes a matter of ingenuity and motivation on top of optimising ones learning - the force of will over matter to enable the desired transformation.

 

[fartcart]

Mitre10 paint section 4 1L and 4L tins of D-Limonene.

 

[fartcart]

Mitre10 paint section 4 1L and 4L tins of D-Limonene.

 

[MrAcuminata]

I just had a read of the safety data sheet, looks good to me. Can link it for someone more qualified to confirm if it's good if that's allowed?

 

[reun]

Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page here (and hopefully for the benefit of future readers), the D-Limonene & citrus terpene discussion concerns salting methods, not freeze-precipitation ones, right?

Based on my research, D-limonene is pretty straightforward to procure, but if we want to get clean freebase, then I believe we have to use freeze-precipitation methods and that's where we struggle here in Australia. Earlier I shared that Sceneys quality shellite passed the evaporation tests and I managed to successfully use it for my first extraction. I tried to buy more of it, but the seller I got it from is now out of stock and I can't find it anywhere else.

There are only a few other leads that I'd like to explore:

• Bosca Shellite
• Shellite Solvent X55 from Sydney Solvents
• Super Pack Shellite Shell (available on eBay)
• Finisher's Edge naphtha
• Pure Heptane: this one is available from some chemistry labs and some seem to actually sell it to private individuals without asking for ABN information, but I feel very uneasy about approaching them!

I've already tried Diggers Shellite and Zippo lighter fluid, both failed the evaporation test.

As far as I'm aware, this is the exhaustive list of solvents in Australia that are necessary for the freeze-precipitation methods. There are some international sellers who offer the likes of VM&P naphtha and they seem to be shipping to Australia, but that feels very dangerous.

Lastly, if anyone has any tips on how to cleanly dispose of unwanted solvents (e.g. if you get 5L of Bosca but it doesn't work!), then please let us know!

 

[MrAcuminata]

Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page here (and hopefully for the benefit of future readers), the D-Limonene & citrus terpene discussion concerns salting methods, not freeze-precipitation ones, right?

Based on my research, D-limonene is pretty straightforward to procure, but if we want to get clean freebase, then I believe we have to use freeze-precipitation methods and that's where we struggle here in Australia. Earlier I shared that Sceneys quality shellite passed the evaporation tests and I managed to successfully use it for my first extraction. I tried to buy more of it, but the seller I got it from is now out of stock and I can't find it anywhere else.

There are only a few other leads that I'd like to explore:

• Bosca Shellite
• Shellite Solvent X55 from Sydney Solvents
• Super Pack Shellite Shell (available on eBay)
• Finisher's Edge naphtha
• Pure Heptane: this one is available from some chemistry labs and some seem to actually sell it to private individuals without asking for ABN information, but I feel very uneasy about approaching them!

I've already tried Diggers Shellite and Zippo lighter fluid, both failed the evaporation test.

As far as I'm aware, this is the exhaustive list of solvents in Australia that are necessary for the freeze-precipitation methods. There are some international sellers who offer the likes of VM&P naphtha and they seem to be shipping to Australia, but that feels very dangerous.

Lastly, if anyone has any tips on how to cleanly dispose of unwanted solvents (e.g. if you get 5L of Bosca but it doesn't work!), then please let us know!

D-Limonene is non-polar, the same as shellite, heptane, xylene etc, so it will pull freebase out of aqueous solution. However, it is such an aggressive solvent (not referring to toxicity, just how soluble non polar compounds are in it) that even at freezing temperatures the DMT is still too soluble to crash out of it, so freezing won't work. It needs to be evaporated completely to retrieve the final product, which takes a lot longer and typically leaves a lot more impurities afterward. This is why D-Limonene is a great choice for slow-evap, because it is non-toxic so as long as necessary clean up steps are taken during extraction, the end product should be safe to use. I expect the yield from this would be higher than freeze-precip using hydrocarbons as well. I would be interested in seeing how Sydney Solvents products go, as I've been considering making a trip there to get some stuff. They also stock lab grade IPA, which would make for cleaner leaf infusions, I believe lab grade acetone, D-Limonene, among other lab grade materials. No heptane though unfortunately.

 

[Transform]

I just had a read of the safety data sheet, looks good to me. Can link it for someone more qualified to confirm if it's good if that's allowed?

If you can download the SDS and attach the pdf here that would be great. I've had sketchy results sometimes from looking up Australian chemical supplies.

 

[MrAcuminata]

If you can download the SDS and attach the pdf here that would be great. I've had sketchy results sometimes from looking up Australian chemical supplies.

That should be it, let me know if it doesn't work

 

[Transform]

OK, so the yellowish tinge as per the SDS description suggests it would benefit from a rinse with dilute lye, and again with dilute acid, before use.

Bear in mind that limonene is less inert than some other solvents and will slowly oxidise to the less volatile carvone. Not one to leave lying around for too long, the carvone residue sticks to everything leaving a minty/caraway odour.

 

[MrAcuminata]

OK, so the yellowish tinge as per the SDS description suggests it would benefit from a rinse with dilute lye, and again with dilute acid, before use.

Bear in mind that limonene is less inert than some other solvents and will slowly oxidise to the less volatile carvone. Not one to leave lying around for too long, the carvone residue sticks to everything leaving a minty/caraway odour.

Ah I see. So if one had performed a mini a/b to remove the fats/oils etc, basified then used D Limonene for the final pulls after this, simply evaporating this with a fan wouldn't work quickly enough, or at all? You'd perhaps need a rotovap? I assume any result would be goo but I thought this goo would be pure and okay to use in a PG mix or for enhanced leaf/changa. Glad I hadn't tried this yet