Spiritual Journeys

[Walter D. Roy]

I watched a documentary on shamanism and the use of Ayahuasca. It brought up some interesting questions for me. Hopefully these questions aren't to irrelevant, and you guys might have some input.

Here is a link to the documentary if any want to reference it:

Well the main questions that arose for me are:

1. Is there real practice needed to enter the "spirit realm"?
Even if the spirit realm is a sort of place inside your head where you are shown your deep desires. To effectively reach this state the shamans seem to rely heavily on rituals. Saying that even before the sacrament is done, they are in contact with the spirits. So if I take a normal dose of ayahuasca on any day, without specific rituals. Can I effectively reach this state of mind?

2. To obtain the purest form of healing, must one make a "shamanic" journey, or be guided by a shaman?
When he accounts of his trip, he speaks of how the shaman's chanting guides him. Calms him, and makes the negativity of the trip disappear. When the shaman stops he says his vision turn dark and start to scare him. So you take this without the guide of a shaman, is it still possible to make peace with our dark side to? People seem to mentally prepare themselves a lot for these types of journeys. But do they have any true meaning if we have no guidance. We get concentration on staying away from the "bad" and going toward the "good". So is this really beneficial?

So those are a couple questions that really rose to the surface and seemed important to me. Any input from you guys is appreciated. Sorry if they are pretty irrelevant though.

Walter

 

[obliguhl]

I have written a bit about shipibo ayahuasca shamanism, so what i'm saying is referencing that.

The Shaman basically undergoes training, sometimes for years to interpret and stir his visions through the use of ritual and music. During his practice, he develops a second identity. He stops being only a human, but also becomes a "spirit" and this makes it possible to navigate the spirit world and work with spirit helpers. I think you could reach interesting realms...but the places of shipibo ayahuasca shamanism? Propably not without being an apprentice. Their culture provides a whole framework of healing and shamanistic travel which makes it possible to deal with ayahuasca in a special fruitful way.

Question 2: I think a lot is possible on your own. But experience of quite a few people, some also on this forum, has shown that a guided journey can be extremely helpful too. I think it is foolish to assume that you can only be healed if you visit a shaman. Do not forget, ayahuasca tourism is huge and there is $$ involved. Think for yourself.

 

[Eliyahu]

Hello Walter.

Hope your doing well just dropped by to put in my two cents...

In my opinion, psychedelic plants contain a spirit force. These spirit force are commonly known as Allies. Ayahuasca, Peyote/San Pedro and Iboga are sort of the big three of the most powerful plant Allies in the world IMHO.

I believe that in order to have a proper experience that one must be "accepted" by the Allies.
So one of the main purposes of a Shaman is that they can help you get accepted.

This is why some people have a difficult time when the Shaman leaves the room...
It is because essentially they are just riding on the coat tails of the Shaman, energy wise.

The Shaman has already been accepted by the Ally and so part of his/her motive is to teach one how to be accepted by the Allies as well. Until the student is accepted they sort of just borrow the acceptance of the shaman.

It is not required that one have a Shaman in order to be accepted, but I believe it is a lot easier with one.

The only thing is it probably is not so easy to find "Shaman" that are really well meaning and not just out to take you for your money or your soul...

As far as I am aware there are way more "evil" sorcerers than "good" ones so be careful who you choose.

 

[aliendreamtime]

I would get this book: "Plant Spirit Shamanism" by Ross Heaven and Howard G Charing.

While it doesnt focus on ayahuasca necessarily, it lays down the basics of Plant Spirit Shamanism, which is essentially what you're looking at and imho, is essential for understanding how to gain allies and heal with plants in a traditional manner.

If you just take a psychedelic drug, the potential for healing is there, as well as the potential for harm. Much like a chainsaw, very powerful plant spirits can be used as 'tools' that provide some kind of benefit. However, you wouldn't necessarily want to pick up a chainsaw and start felling trees in your yard, knowing nothing about chainsaws or logging. At the very least, I would get a good chainsaw manual (DMT-Nexus) and a good book (Above) and once I feel comfortable, cautiously try my hand at it.

While I wouldn't quite consider myself a shaman(I have no community that comes to me for healing), I am undoubtedly in tune to 'nature spirits' and have gained a few allies.

If you make the effort to learn and seek out allies, you will slowly be 'taken' into a new way of being (thinking, understanding). It may sound wishy-washy, and as soon as I began investigating these matters, upon reading that my life would change and never be the same, I thought it was mumbo jumbo. However, you may eventually learn how to talk to, and more importantly, listen to, spirits. They definitely are not like some ghost out of a Disney movie haha. They are subtle for sure.

You can heal yourself if you gain allies and learn through reading and your own trial and error. You dont need a Shaman, and in my opinion, are safer without one. What you DO need are allies. Dont forget that allies can also consist of your ancestors and animal spirits.

If I were you I'd get that book or one like it though its the best I've found(...no I'm not affiliated with them! haha) and read it. Use it as a manual to gain a plant ally [this will become more clear once you've read it] that is local, and ideally gorwing wild in your yard. Gain its favor, use it and the techniques in the book, and try to heal whatever your thinking about healing with ayahuasca. If all of this interests you, only then would I begin using ayahuasca to try to heal myself.

If you finally to get to the vine, dont use enough for a psychoactive dose. Treat it with the utmost respect, and introduce it to your body.

Just one more thing worth mentioning. This is no joke, and the number one thing it takes to practice shamanism is a large set of Kahonas. Ayahuasca will eat you alive, convince you you've died, all while growling and bearing her teeth. But she will never leave you that way if you come to her respectfully. She will tenderly explain why she had to put you through what you went through, and gingerly rebuild your being purer, stronger, and wiser.

Another book that would help is Dan Millman's "The Sacred Journey of the Peaceful Warrior" but its less informative and more of a joy read. Take it with a grain of salt. I read it a long time ago, but I often remember parts that make me think twice about certain things.

Sorry for the long post! Good Luck!

 

[Walter D. Roy]

Just one more thing worth mentioning. This is no joke, and the number one thing it takes to practice shamanism is a large set of Kahonas.

What are Kahonas?

I believe that in order to have a proper experience that one must be "accepted" by the Allies.

Do you think that the only way to be accepted by these Allies is through actual experience with Aya? Or can you do premeditated preparations to help the acceptance?


Thank you for the answers guys! You have shed some light on the subject, and given me some stuff to think about. Whereas I do not intend to do Ayahuasca any time soon, I think that I must start on the journey of understanding it first, before I make any foolish endeavors.

Walter

 

[ziggus]

What are Kahonas?

Pretty sure he meant cojones.

 

[Eliyahu]

IMHO The allies do not require all that much and what they do require is simple. To be accepted by the allies one must live a humble yet strong and deliberate life and one must also possess a certain degree of relatively pure intention. To put it cheesily, one must be somewhat pure of heart.

The main thing that offends the allies and will serve to repel them is EGOISM..because any other type of flaw they are able to work with but a person with a huge EGO cannot be helped.

The allies are the teachers and protectors...in my opinion they are analogous to the Sepherim (a certain class of angelic beings) mentioned in the book of genesis who......Stand guard at the path that leads to the tree of life and are armed with a flaming swords that shines both this way or that -To me this means that the "swords of the Sepharim" flash back and forth from judgment to mercy. In other words the psychedelic experience itself constantly switches back and forth between states of judgement and states of mercy.

Of course that is just my take on it.

 

[Walter D. Roy]

What are Kahonas?

Pretty sure he meant cojones.

haha okay makes more sense now