Tetrahydroharmine (THH) sublingually

[69ron]

SWIM and his friend took 200mg of THH HCL each last night. The THH was dissolved in tap water. Effects were very mild for SWIM, and mild to nonexistent for his companion. Moods were elevated, minds were clear, and slight tingling/warmth were experienced in limbs about 30 min into the experience and for the next 2 hours afterward. During those 2 hours, SWIM and his companion ate a small meal. Looking to possibly jump start the sensations, SWIM and his companion smoked a bowl of MJ each roughly 2 hours after initial ingestion. These were the same decent mids that they had been smoking all week, yet this particular session took them to another place. Definite CEV were experienced, with vibrant colors and patterns, and minor OEV were noted as well. They spent the next 3 hours entranced by fractal zooms on the computer screen while listening to various songs. The THH vendor nicely supplied SWIM with a free pair of 'Lazer 3d' glasses, and these were put to use, to amazing effect.

SWIM is experienced with MJ and his companion smokes even more, and the consensus was that the THH had a definite, strong effect on the experience.

SWIM never tried mixing it with MJ.

That sounds awesome. It sounds like it altered the effects quite a bit.

This morning SWIM felt refreshed without any side effects at all. If SWIM experiments with THH again, it will be with 300 to 400 mg of the THH HCL instead. Would tap water have had a negative effect on the solution?

Tap water should be fine I think.

The effects of THH alone orally, are not that noticeable until about 300 mg are taken, unless you do it sublingually or you snort it, then it’s a lot stronger. The mostly consist of tingling sensations, some euphoria, and mild visual effects when taken alone. But when taken with other psychedelics the effects are very noticeable.

THH is best used in combination with other psychedelics.

200 mg of THH with 20 mg of DMT orally is an amazing experience beyond words. It’s a must try experience. For SWIM it was the best psychedelic experience he ever had with DMT.

 

[IcerX]

Is 200 mg of THH enough to be an effective MAOI and allow oral DMT ingestion?

also, SWIM decided to use a damp qtip to wipe up the powdered residue left on the inside of the vial he recieved, and tried then placing it under his tongue for several minutes. There was a very gentle buzz experienced, very pleasant.

 

[69ron]

Is 200 mg of THH enough to be an effective MAOI and allow oral DMT ingestion?

Yes. SWIM took 200 mg of THH HCl with 20 mg of DMT orally and had one of the best psychedelic trips he’s ever hard. It was utterly amazing. From now on, that’s how SWIM will take DMT.

also, SWIM decided to use a damp qtip to wipe up the powdered residue left on the inside of the vial he recieved, and tried then placing it under his tongue for several minutes. There was a very gentle buzz experienced, very pleasant.

It’s much more potent that way. SWIM took 100 mg of THH HCl under the tongue and experienced pretty strong visual effects in about 20 minutes. Hit room started pulsating in different colors for a few minutes, similar to an acid trip. But the visuals didn’t last long, just a few minutes, and they were mild. The best effects SWIM has had was by mixing THH with other compounds. It seems to greatly amplify the psychedelic effects of other compounds.

So far the best combination was 200 mg THH HCl with 20 mg DMT orally. It blew SWIM away. It was better than acid, more clear headed than ayahuasca, it was just amazing. From that combination SWIM experienced what seemed to be telepathy, and other things he never experienced before from DMT.

 

[boylobster]

200 mg of THH with 20 mg of DMT orally is an amazing experience beyond words. It’s a must try experience. For SWIM it was the best psychedelic experience he ever had with DMT.

Oh man. This makes me very, very excited, not in the least 'cause I'd be willing to bet that SWIY has plenty of delightful DMT experiences under their belt already.


I have a couple of questions, if SWIY doesn't mind.

So far the best combination was 200 mg THH HCl with 20 mg DMT orally.

That's 200mg THH HCl dissolved in water and imbibed, yes? And as for the spice, what it freebase or a salt? Should it matter much which form the spice is in for this application? How long did SWIY wait before ingesting the 20mg DMT?


Whew... just one more, if I could beg the indulgence of SWIY.

It blew SWIM away.

Sold. I don't need to know anything about what it might be like, but it might be beneficial to know how long the effects of this particular cocktail lasted for SWIY.

This report has me very happy. I have some dear friends with whom I'd love to share the magic of the spice, but who have great difficulty with the harshness of the smoke, and for whom insufflation is very unappealing. This is a wonderful revelation; my thanks to SWIY for sharing!

 

[69ron]

200 mg of THH with 20 mg of DMT orally is an amazing experience beyond words. It’s a must try experience. For SWIM it was the best psychedelic experience he ever had with DMT.

Oh man. This makes me very, very excited, not in the least 'cause I'd be willing to bet that SWIY has plenty of delightful DMT experiences under their belt already.


I have a couple of questions, if SWIY doesn't mind.

So far the best combination was 200 mg THH HCl with 20 mg DMT orally.

That's 200mg THH HCl dissolved in water and imbibed, yes? And as for the spice, what it freebase or a salt? Should it matter much which form the spice is in for this application? How long did SWIY wait before ingesting the 20mg DMT?

Yes, 200 mg THH HCl dissolved in a glass of water. About 100 mg of citric acid was also added, and then freebase DMT was added to the water. It was left to dissolve. It was drunk down really fast in one big gulp. Right after it dissolved, he had some bread and juice to make sure it all when down and to clear the bitter taste from his mouth.

It should NOT matter if the DMT is a salt or not. But if added to water, and it’s freebase, you need to add acid to the water, or it won’t dissolve.

SWIM took both the THH and DMT at the same time, but taking the DMT after taking the THH might work better. He hasn’t tested that yet.

Whew... just one more, if I could beg the indulgence of SWIY.

It blew SWIM away.

Sold. I don't need to know anything about what it might be like, but it might be beneficial to know how long the effects of this particular cocktail lasted for SWIY.

This report has me very happy. I have some dear friends with whom I'd love to share the magic of the spice, but who have great difficulty with the harshness of the smoke, and for whom insufflation is very unappealing. This is a wonderful revelation; my thanks to SWIY for sharing!

The effects started after about 10 minutes. At 20 minutes there were visuals. It peaked at 45 minutes for about 10 minutes. At the 60 minute point it was quite a bit weaker, but still pretty strong. The entire trip lasts about 4 hours with a little bit of a lingering effect for another few hours. The main part of the trip though happens at about 45 minutes. At that point SWIM had what seemed to be telepathic effects, he was also visited by an ancient shaman in a vision (I get shills thinking about it), multiple things happened really rapidly, the experience was extremely accelerated, and at one point time seemed to completely stop.

What’s interesting to SWIM is that there was no sense of panic or anxiety, but instead there was a calmness to it. It’s hard to explain. The experience is extremely energizing, with your brain feeling supercharged with immense energy, but at some level you feel tranquil, peaceful. It’s as if the THH has put a warm loving protective force field around your soul, and is letting you go much deeper into the experience, and also adding to the experience by opening up new pathways for the DMT to bring you to. I’m sorry, I’m not that gifted with language, and I’m finding it hard to convey the experience.

It was the only time SWIM felt so energized and so tranquil at the same time. SWIM’s mind was bursting with boundless energy, and yet instead of feeling overcharged, SWIM felt tranquil and very capable of controlling it. It’s like riding a dragon and being completely in charge. None of SWIM’s DMT experiences were ever like that, not even his ayahuasca experiences. With DMT alone, it’s like the spirits are in the driver’s seat. With ayahuasca it’s like you’re allowed to drive sometimes, with THH and DMT, it’s like your in a super charge car that you’ve been driving all your life and you know exactly how to turn, when to turn, how fast to go, etc. Somehow the THH puts you in control of the DMT trip. It clarifies your mind and really puts you in the driver’s seat. SWIM likes it a lot.

To put it simply, THH harnesses the power of the DMT making it much more useful. Harmaline does the exact opposite with DMT, making it a wild uncontrollable experience (which can also be good to, in a different way).

EDIT: there was a typo in a sentence above where the word NOT is in bold: it was missing. Sorry about that. It completely changed the intended meaning of the sentence.

 

[boylobster]

No need to apologize. If THH in conjunction with DMT is a more potent combination than the just the spice, it's a small wonder that words seem lacking. So you drank a dissolved DMT salt - that's mostly what I wanted to know with that question. I suppose it wouldn't really matter whether you dissolved a salt, or encapsulated either a salt or freebase and ingested them directly.... or do you feel that there's an advantage to dissolving the spice into solution? Faster or more complete absorption, perhaps?

Well, again, I really appreciate your sharing the experiences of SWIY. I'm ordering a batch for... ah... SWIM... and will have a report soon as well.

I'd also be curious, if SWIY tries this combination again soon, if the results seem consistent. DMT is a wily beast... but SWIM hasn't ever really tried to isolate the compound from mimosa extractions. I take it the spice used by SWIY was relatively pure DMT?

 

['Coatl]

Have y'all noticed the new stuff on our favorite vendors page?

Ok everybody stop telling people about it, ok? Unless you wanna see it made illegal (they're now advertising it as "Ayahuasca glow without the plant") and the price go way up.

 

[Jorkest]

[quote='Coatl]Have y'all noticed the new stuff on our favorite vendors page?

Ok everybody stop telling people about it, ok? Unless you wanna see it made illegal (they're now advertising it as "Ayahuasca glow without the plant") and the price go way up.
[/quote]

its also an HCL so its got more THH in it per gram

 

[69ron]

No need to apologize. If THH in conjunction with DMT is a more potent combination than the just the spice, it's a small wonder that words seem lacking. So you drank a dissolved DMT salt - that's mostly what I wanted to know with that question. I suppose it wouldn't really matter whether you dissolved a salt, or encapsulated either a salt or freebase and ingested them directly.... or do you feel that there's an advantage to dissolving the spice into solution? Faster or more complete absorption, perhaps?

If taken as a capsule it’s slightly weaker because it takes longer to digest. Alkaloids dissolved in water are digested many times faster and so they hit you faster and stronger. This is a near universal rule for all drugs.

Well, again, I really appreciate your sharing the experiences of SWIY. I'm ordering a batch for... ah... SWIM... and will have a report soon as well.

I'd also be curious, if SWIY tries this combination again soon, if the results seem consistent. DMT is a wily beast... but SWIM hasn't ever really tried to isolate the compound from mimosa extractions. I take it the spice used by SWIY was relatively pure DMT?

The DMT was extracted from chacruna and was completely white crystals, so it was probably at least 98% pure.

 

[69ron]

[quote='Coatl]Have y'all noticed the new stuff on our favorite vendors page?

Ok everybody stop telling people about it, ok? Unless you wanna see it made illegal (they're now advertising it as "Ayahuasca glow without the plant") and the price go way up.

its also an HCL so its got more THH in it per gram[/quote]

THH HCl is 1.6 times more potent than THH citrate, so if you calculate the cost based on that it’s actually a price drop.

There's little reason to make it illegal. I wouldn't worry about that. Only a small handful of people in the entire world even know what THH or ayahuasca is.

In the US, THH has been classified as a drug with no potential for abuse for many years. In order to make it illegal, they’d have to change the classification of it, and that’s something they almost never do. It’s not like savinorin which was not even classified for a long time. It’s not a new alkaloid. THH has been known for a long time and so has ayahuasca.

Harmine has been used far more than THH has (look at all the reports on Erowid of its use with other drugs), and it's still legal in almost every part of the world.

In combination with DMT and other psychedelics, THH is a powerful alkaloid, but when taken alone, it's relatively weak and not something I would ever see getting popular as a stand alone drug.

 

[boylobster]

If taken as a capsule it’s slightly weaker because it takes longer to digest. Alkaloids dissolved in water are digested many times faster and so they hit you faster and stronger. This is a near universal rule for all drugs.

Yah, that's what I'd figured; thank you.

The DMT was extracted from chacruna and was completely white crystals, so it was probably at least 98% pure.

Hm. SWIM has a an order that ought to be arriving any time, and is debating whether to purify the raw mimosa extract SWIM has (which they've never bothered to do), or to take a chance and go dancing in the jungle. Especially when attempting experiences of heightened intensity, SWIM usually tries to err on the side of caution, but... SWIM also has an attraction to reckless abandon.

Without the obvious benefit of having any experience with the extraction SWIM has, does anyone have any advice on that front for SWIM? 69ron? It seems SWIY has the most experience with this combination thus far... any wisdom to share?

 

[boylobster]

Update:

23mg THH HCl insufflated. Mild to very unpleasant burning in the sinuses and back of throat was experienced by SWIM for about half an hour, with almost no other detectable effects. SWIM did note that an aching jaw injury felt painless and fluid at what must have been the "peak", and the soreness returned shortly after the burning ceased.

SWIM was a bit dissapointed, but SWIM also doesn't have a great deal of experience jamming stuff up his nose. SWIM notes that user error is a possibility, though not likely. SWIM has even less experience administering anything rectally, but that's exactly what he's going to try tomorrow. Seems to SWIM that it'll be hard to F that up. More to come.

 

[Jorkest]

SWIM finds doing it sublingually works the best...snorting the stuff is a bit rough on the throat and nose...

 

[69ron]

Snorting THH is unpleasant and doesn’t work for SWIM. When SWIM snorted tetrahydroharmine citrate, he got nausea, felt sick, and got no other effects from it. That was from the same dose that produced great effects sublingually without any nausea or other side effects.

He’s got best effects from sublingual use. Oral is also pleasant. He’s not tried smoking it or taking it any other way yet.

 

[boylobster]

Mm. Rough, unpleasant, sick... yeah, SWIM reports that these are all good adjectives.

SWIM would've gone the sublingual route, but was concerned about two factors: One, the mild chemical burn mentioned earlier in this thread (though I believe that was THH Citrate, and packed between the lip and gums), and two, the practicality of sublingual application. SWIM thought that trying to keep saliva away from his tongue or out of the bottom of his mouth for 10-15 minutes sounded like a bit of a hassle, and more importantly, introduced more potential for user error.

SWIM is perfectly happy to experiment with all methods sans injection, and will give sublingual a go tonight. Does anyone have some good tips with regard to application technique? I've read about clamping saliva out of the bottom of the mouth with the tongue, or smearing the ~20mg on the bottom of the tongue and keeping the tongue elevated... but I don't know which would work best for SWIM. Naturally, this won't keep SWIM from trying until he gets it right.

 

[Jorkest]

SWIM mixes his THH HCl with a little bit of water..until its all absorbed..then he just puts it in his mouth and tries to keep it under his tongue..it doesnt burn...the hardest part is when you first put it in your mouth..but once its there you cant taste it...he just moves it around inside his mouth for about 10 minutes..and then swallows..seems to do the trick fine

 

[boylobster]

Huh! Sounds relatively painless. Thanks, Jorkest! SWIM will make use of that technique tonight, and I'll report his results.

 

[boylobster]

SWIM reports very curious results from a variety of tests, and I'd love to see any input you guys might care to provide.

Last night, SWIM and a friend gave Jorkest's sublingual method a try. 25mg THH HCl per person was dissolved in 3ml water, and allowed to sit in the basin under the tongue. Not feeling strong results, they allowed this to continue for ~25 minutes before swallowing. Effects, if present, were only very barely noticeable, though the numbness in the tongue that's been reported was present in both individuals at the "peak". The tongue-numbing sensation was easily more pronounced than anything else.

After ~10 more minutes had passed, unsatisfied and thinking they may have a) made some error in the application, b) not used a high enough dosage, or c)both, SWIM and their friend decided to apply *another* 25mg each sublingualy, but as a powder, clamping the tongue to the bottom of their mouths. This only lasted ~10 minutes as the friend of SWIM coughed and involuntarily swallowed most of their dose. SWIM followed suite, to keep results consistent. Tongue numbness was still present during and after the second sublingual dosage, but little else was felt by either party. Both agreed that a very subtle, almost indetectable sense of relaxation may have been present.

After another ~10 minutes had passed, the two, frustrated, decide to try yet another delivery method... the big guns, as it were. 20mg THH HCl was dissolve in 3ml water (per person), and administered to both intrarectally. Based on previous reports, SWIM expected dramatic results from this, but little was felt. The sensation of relaxation became *slightly* more perceptable. ~10 more minutes pass and SWIM and friend decide to try one more time, and 30mg THH HCl were dissolved in 4ml water, and another rectal administration was attempted.

Finally, both agreed that about 10 minutes after the last dosage, they could perceive a distinct feeling of looseness in the body, with the heady feeling a bit "floaty". After ten more minutes, however, SWIM began to also feel distinctly nauseous, and the floating sensation in the head is tinged with dizziness or vertigo. SWIM reports that the body felt incredibly relaxed, which was pleasant, even though though the sensations of dizziness and nausea were growing stronger. The friend concurred that the body relaxation was present, though probably not as strong as for SWIM, and was experiencing no adverse effects.

Thankfully, the peak of the nausea passed after ~30 minutes. During that time, SWIM felt very heavily sedated, and sick. For him, it was not entirely unlike having taken too many muscle relaxants. There were no tingling sensations for either SWIM or his friend, and certainly no vibration or "ogasmic" sensation that has been reported by others.

Today, SWIM feels fine. I have to say that given what I'd read about THH, I'm both confused and disappointed by these results. SWIM feels his results are so divergent from expectations, though highly unlikely, he's willing to consider that he received a mis-labeled vial from the vendor. SWIM has no experience with pure Harmine or Harmaline extracts. His THH HCl is a slightly yellowish, slightly brownish powder with no obvious crystaline structure even when viewed under 80x magnification. The taste was bitter, but little else.

If anyone can shed some light on these results, I'd be very grateful.

 

[69ron]

Well, when SWIM tried snorting THH, he got nausea, felt sick and got no other effects. That sounds just like SWIY’s rectal experiment. However, the same batch was quite effective sublingually and orally and was without side effects.

I think it is likely that SWIY developed tolerance to the THH while testing it. For SWIM the tolerance lasts about 18 hours or so. It’s best not to take it more than once in a day. At least it’s that way for SWIM.

Try skipping a day, and then try 50 mg sublingually. It should be very noticeable. 20 mg sublingually is barely detectable, but enough to develop tolerance to it for SWIM.

The color of THH HCl powder is sort of a grayish straw color and pretty bitter tasting. It tastes far more bitter than freebase harmine or freebase harmaline does.

I doubt it was mislabeled. If it was either harmine or especially harmaline, SWIY would feel somewhat drugged from it after taking so much. 10 mg of harmaline taken sublingually is very noticeable and it takes a lot to develop tolerance to either harmine or harmaline.

 

[boylobster]

Yeah, I was whether wondering SWIM and his friend didn't unintentionally edge themselves out of effective dosage range by taking dosages at the outset that were too small. Just to be accurate, rectal administration wasn't all nausea for SWIM - there was profound relaxation of his body at the peak. His thinking was clear, but he felt very sedated, and very relaxed. His pulse rate seemed slower than normal. All of this would've been fine (less than expected, but not unpleasant) had it not been accompanied by slight dizziness and much worse nausea.

SWIM's earlier attempt at nasal administration was worthless in exactly the way you describe - lots of burning and discomfort, and little else.

I also find it highly unlikely that SWIM was sent the wrong substance, but from what I've read, 50mg is a lot to take up the butt and not really feel anything, so other possibilities had to be considered.

Thanks for your kind advice; SWIM and friend will give a large sublingual dosage a try again tomorrow via Jorkest's method, unless anyone has serious objections as to its efficacy.

What do you think is the smallest volume of water into which SWIM could dissolve 50mg THH HCl?