Tetrahydroharmine (THH) sublingually

[69ron]

SWIM doesn't use water. He just places the powder under his tongue and holds it there by pressing his tongue against the bottom of his mouth for 10 minutes and then swallows. SWIM has tried up to 100 mg that way and experienced mild visual effects similar to DMT for a few minutes during the peak. No side effects were experienced. That was after not having any THH for 2 days. I think it won't work well unless you skip at least 1 day.

 

[Nanaki]

SWIM just put 15mg of THH powder under his tongue. He could have fit 50mg most likely. Produces a lot of saliva. He doesn't see the need to dissolve it in water. It does burn just a hair, but not bad at all.

15mg was enough to feel some slight effects, clear headed, after 20 mins of sublingual method.

 

[69ron]

If you're going to pre-dissolve it in anything, DMSO would probably be the most effective sublingual carrier for it, and might possibly increase the potency quite a bit.

 

[Nanaki]

Wow, never heard of DMSO before. Does that work with anything that will dissolve in it, to carry it into the bloodstream?

 

[69ron]

It only works with some compounds. For example, DMT dissolves in it completely, but is still nearly ineffective sublingually. It works best for things that are normally active sublingually, for example it works really well with 5-MeO-DMT and salvinorin A, and most likely will also work great for THH.

 

[Nanaki]

So this DMSO could potentiate a Salvia quid then?

How's the DMSO taste?

 

[boylobster]

SWIM doesn't use water. He just places the powder under his tongue and holds it there by pressing his tongue against the bottom of his mouth for 10 minutes and then swallows. SWIM has tried up to 100 mg that way and experienced mild visual effects similar to DMT for a few minutes during the peak. No side effects were experienced. That was after not having any THH for 2 days. I think it won't work well unless you skip at least 1 day.

Yes, SWIM and friend will give any developed tolerance time to subside... and will try applying 50 or 60mg of the powder dry.

DMSO seems to be readily available online, and SWIM would be happy to give it a try and report. Is it necessary to request a recommendation for a specific vendor, or will just about anything do? The second item in this google shopping list seems promising, but I have no experience with DMSO. Advice?

DMSO - Google Shopping

www.google.com

I gather it's not kosher on the Nexus to mention specific sites or vendors, and I've no wish to violate site policy, so please let me know if I'm out of line here.

 

[69ron]

That one looks good to me. It's a different brand that what I have. As long as it's 99.9% DMSO with nothing else added it should be good. You might want to check if it’s food grade or not before buying it. Most 99.9% DMSO being sold at health food stores is actually food grade and meant to be used to help other nutrients absorb sublingually, however the FDA doesn’t allow DMSO to be sold for ingestion, so they legally have to say it’s for solvent use only. Many doctors swear by using DMSO despite the FDA’s negative position on it.

 

[amor_fati]

SWIM's noticed very little difference between insuffulation and sublingual use, at least when smoking in conjunction. They both work quite well for that, but sublingual is preferable.

 

[Jorkest]

yeah its not quite so abrasive feeling sublingually

 

[prottel]

After ten more minutes, however, SWIM began to also feel distinctly nauseous, and the floating sensation in the head is tinged with dizziness or vertigo. SWIM reports that the body felt incredibly relaxed, which was pleasant, even though though the sensations of dizziness and nausea were growing stronger.

His pulse rate seemed slower than normal.

Sounds like decently strong caapi to me.

 

[boylobster]

So. SWIM and friend attempted sublingual application again last night, per 69ron's suggestions. 60mg THH HCl per person was dropped into the basin underneath the tongue and allowed to sit for ~17 minutes, at which point the mouthful of bitter saliva that had accumulated was swallowed. After another 20-30 minutes, SWIM and friend could feel identifiable relaxation of the body, and a *very* faint sense of the "floating head" sensation experienced previously. Neither party experienced any nausea. Interestingly, SWIM seemed less affected this time around than his friend, who experienced pronounced relaxation leading to drowsiness. Still no tingling, vibration, or sense of "orgasmic" well being. The effects were very subtle, short-lived, and pleasant.

It seems strange to me that other people seem to report such distinct activity at comparably low doses (25-45mg), while SWIM and friend have had great difficulty achieving a similar experience.

SWIM will take a break for a couple days, and then resume testing with higher dosages and different methods. Oral ingestion and sublingual application with DMSO are at the top of the list. If anyone has further advice for SWIM, I'm certain he would find it valuable. Cheers!

 

[Jorkest]

try mixing it with other psychoactive's..you will notice a big difference

 

[Nanaki]

try mixing it with other psychoactive's..you will notice a big difference

Definitely, more than you realize, so I'd recommend starting small if you're going to mix. It has a tendency to potentiate other entheogens.

 

[69ron]

So. SWIM and friend attempted sublingual application again last night, per 69ron's suggestions. 60mg THH HCl per person was dropped into the basin underneath the tongue and allowed to sit for ~17 minutes, at which point the mouthful of bitter saliva that had accumulated was swallowed. After another 20-30 minutes, SWIM and friend could feel identifiable relaxation of the body, and a *very* faint sense of the "floating head" sensation experienced previously. Neither party experienced any nausea. Interestingly, SWIM seemed less affected this time around than his friend, who experienced pronounced relaxation leading to drowsiness. Still no tingling, vibration, or sense of "orgasmic" well being. The effects were very subtle, short-lived, and pleasant.

It seems strange to me that other people seem to report such distinct activity at comparably low doses (25-45mg), while SWIM and friend have had great difficulty achieving a similar experience.

SWIM will take a break for a couple days, and then resume testing with higher dosages and different methods. Oral ingestion and sublingual application with DMSO are at the top of the list. If anyone has further advice for SWIM, I'm certain he would find it valuable. Cheers!

That’s weird. Has SWIY ever tried peganum harmala or banisteriopsis caapi before? If so, was it anything like either of them?

 

[boylobster]

try mixing it with other psychoactive's..you will notice a big difference

Yah, I'm aware of its MAOI and potentiating activity, but thank you! SWIM figured it would be best to investigate the compound on its own and get a feel for it before combining it with other substances. Plus, the descriptions of the THH experience alone were enough to pique the curiosity of SWIM... unfortunately, SWIM hasn't been able to really attain an experience as strikingly positive as some have reported.

That’s weird. Has SWIY ever tried peganum harmala or banisteriopsis caapi before? If so, was it anything like either of them?

SWIM has very limited experience with harmala and none with caapi. SWIM once tried a solution from boiled harmala seeds - a very small dose, ~2g seed material. SWIM was being cautious... he felt no effect from the seed solution, but when he smoked ~30mg spice, he felt suddenly *overwhelmed* with nausea halfway through the second hit, which had never happened previously with DMT. He fought through it an had an otherwise unremarkable journey (as unremarkable as it gets). He tried another journey half an hour after that, and thought that he was going to have a f-ing heart attack, which was also a new experience. As clearly as he could comprehend anything, for the first portion of the journey, he *thought* he was experiencing dangerously high blood pressure and heart rate, and seriously thought he might die. SWIM has no way of knowing how much of that was real. Then tranquility set in, and a quite remarkable journey was had.

SWIM has not since had the balls to venture further into MAOI land. Since the seed solution didn't make itself felt, and since SWIM hasn't tried DMT with THH (yet), SWIM has little effective basis for comparison.

That was probably much more than you cared to know, but hey... why not?

 

[Nanaki]

From what I've read 2 parts THH + 3 parts Harmine + a little bit of Harmaline = Caapi.

Or so I assume from an ayahuasca analog recipe that 69ron gave to me a few days ago.

SWIM will soon have experience with this analog, when he receives his Harmine.

I believe also it's a common misconception that these harmala alkaloids are RIMA's not MAOI's. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[69ron]

Yes, they are RIMAs. RIMAs are a subclass of MAOIs that are reversible (very short acting) and only affect MAO-A and not MAO-B, meaning they are much safer than typical MAOIs and don’t require special diets. But even so, they could still be dangerous when mixed with other drugs. DMT has been used orally with these alkaloids for a very long time in the form of ayahuasca without any known fatalities, so it seems to be a relatively safe combination.

 

[Nanaki]

69ron, I do also remember reading that you do not fast before SWIY does an ayahuasca analog with these harmala alkaloids. Is it best to not have a full stomach, and maybe give a few hours after eating, or for most people should they have an empty stomach?

SWIM would like to try this some night, but he eats dinner and even a few hours afterwards this might be a problem. He could wait till morning, but would probably need to wake up around 5am so that his hours-long journey won't occur when the other house guest wakes up.

 

[69ron]

69ron, I do also remember reading that you do not fast before SWIY does an ayahuasca analog with these harmala alkaloids. Is it best to not have a full stomach, and maybe give a few hours after eating, or for most people should they have an empty stomach?

SWIM would like to try this some night, but he eats dinner and even a few hours afterwards this might be a problem. He could wait till morning, but would probably need to wake up around 5am so that his hours-long journey won't occur when the other house guest wakes up.

If taken on an empty stomach it will hit you faster, a little harder, and also not last as long. If taken on a full stomach the trip will be smoother and slightly weaker because it takes longer to absorb. SWIM actually prefers it more drawn out.

SWIM never fasts. The only times SWIM really got sick form psychedelics is when he fasted. Having a completely empty stomach, and then introducing alkaloids into the stomach is a very good way to shock your stomach and cause nausea. On an empty stomach SWIM’s digestive system is better able to detect the alkaloids and is more likely to attempt to eject them. At least it’s that way for SWIM. Normally SWIM eats dinner and then uses ayahuasca a few hours afterwards, and always has a drink and some solid food immediately after having the ayahuasca. If he doesn’t eat or drink directly after having the ayahuasca, he’s more likely to get nausea.

Basically, your stomach is stimulated to begin digestion when sweets or other tasty foods are sensed by the nose and tongue. This gets your stomach ready for digestion. Bitter tasting things like alkaloids have the opposite effect on your stomach. Bitter tastes indicate the presence of poisons so they slow down digestion and can also cause your body to reject what’s entering into your digestive system. This is why SWIM eats and drinks something tasty right after taking ayahuasca. The good smells and flavors overpower the bitterness of the ayahuasca and trick the body into thinking it digested food rather than a bunch of poison. Anyway, it works for SWIM.