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That ugly heroin thread
- Thread starter Opiyum
- Start date
Opiyum
Rising Star
Didn't eat anything fatty that day no and no I don't have a weight problem...never have. 5'11" 178lbs without breakfast this morning.
What would be pretty interesting is if next time I smoked DMT after coming back to life I found myself in a opiate nod. That would be something else.
What would be pretty interesting is if next time I smoked DMT after coming back to life I found myself in a opiate nod. That would be something else.
I'm not sure if this adds anything to the discussion, but I have, in the past, used oral morphine and DMT in the same day. While I was not on a full nod from the morphine, I did not notice much difference in the DMT experience, other than it being a bit more frantic than normal.
It is possible that something in the cut may have triggered this reaction...no herion, unless gotten straight from the cook shops next to the fields will be 99% pure..it gets stomped on before many times before it comes to the streets.
It is possible that something in the cut may have triggered this reaction...no herion, unless gotten straight from the cook shops next to the fields will be 99% pure..it gets stomped on before many times before it comes to the streets.
How is what jorkest asked "not nice" in any way? Jorkest's logic maybe was that eating something fatty while doing pharma brings on the trip, he waas asking whether something similar happened here.1664 said:
On the contrary I believe that you making assumptions about Opiyum's weights wiith respect to his habits is rude and prejudiced.
Let's just call this thing a 'freak-event' instead of speculating about heroin/DMT synergy's.
There is probably no such synergy at all.
The most likely explanation for the phenomenon is just that the heroin triggered a very short flashback, just like heroin is known to be able to trigger psychosis.
We don't know the exact biochemical responses behind such a psychosis either, but heroin can unleash something in the brain that's just sitting there and waiting to happen.
Let's just say that a flashback is a sort of very short, benign temporary psychosis and that heroin can trigger it, like cannabis and many other substances.
We will never know exactly what neurochemical mechanisms are behind it.
There is probably no such synergy at all.
The most likely explanation for the phenomenon is just that the heroin triggered a very short flashback, just like heroin is known to be able to trigger psychosis.
We don't know the exact biochemical responses behind such a psychosis either, but heroin can unleash something in the brain that's just sitting there and waiting to happen.
Let's just say that a flashback is a sort of very short, benign temporary psychosis and that heroin can trigger it, like cannabis and many other substances.
We will never know exactly what neurochemical mechanisms are behind it.
Opiyum
Rising Star
acolon_5 said:
I was thinking the same thing. Sure it was good dope and many people are saying the best that's been around in years though I can't really say since I haven't been using all that much in the last six months but no doubt there is still an unknown cutting agent involved that could be the culprit or at least part of it.
Opiyum
Rising Star
polytrip said:
I understand what your saying and it may be true that it was just a freak event but heroin use causing psychosis? That's a new one to me. I'm sure, like any active compound, there can be extremely rare side effects and maybe heroin has but people in a psychotic state a handful of times in it's history other than times when it was cut with something other than heroin. The fact remains that Heroin itself is a completely benign substance. It's is not nuerotoxic, is easier on the liver than tylenol, has almost zero negative side effects other than constipation (which by the way saved millions of people lives) which can actually be good for the smooth muscles in the GI tract. It really is one of the safest drugs you could ever take much like DMT except of course that it is extremely addictive. It's the lifestyle and the result of the war on drugs and a lack of harm reduction that cause all the physical and metal side effects you see in most heroin addits, not the heroin itself.
I'm interested to see where your getting this information that a single dose of heroin can cause psychosis and/or flash backs because to me that is unheard of. If we are talking about withdrawaling that's another story but I don't think we are so passing it off as a flashback I think is a bit of a cop out and I don't think there is any history or evidence to prove such a thing but I'm eager to be proven wrong here.
Yeah, I would be interested to know where you're getting your information as well, because I think it's 100% inaccurate. It's easy enough to demonize heroin without resorting to making shit up. I've never heard of a single case of heroin induced psychosis, and I honestly believe that it doesn't exist.
Uncle Knucles said:
Agreed, in my 8years of opiate addiction I have yet to come across heroin (or opiate) induced psychosis (did you get that from TV?). While I'm not saying that it was made up, I believe that it is so uncommon that it really is not something to be considered here.
The information i have is that many people who end up in psychiatric clinic's are heroin addicts.
But it's true that you can never proof that it's the heroin doing this.
I know it's a benign substance.
But that doesn't matter much in this case, because it's a general profile of people who're heroin addicts that end up in mental institutions: people who live unhealthy lives, little food of low quality depleting the brain from essential sources, getting infected with nasty things, lack of sleep, and most importantly poly-drug use.
It's the lifestyle that's putting too much strain on people's brain.
But alcohol can just as easilly trigger psychosis in such situations.
Anyway, whatever your lifestyle has been in the past few years, it is likely to have at least put some strain on you and made you susceptible for flash-back's, wich i would say is a mild psychiatric phenomenon and not too much to worry about.
I think that alcohol could just as easily have done the same thing. It's a freak event that may happen occasionaly in one in a million people or so.
I once started hallucinating from an injection i got from my dentist, wich probably was procaine or something simmilar, and a couple glasses of wine. Nothing more.
But it's true that you can never proof that it's the heroin doing this.
I know it's a benign substance.
But that doesn't matter much in this case, because it's a general profile of people who're heroin addicts that end up in mental institutions: people who live unhealthy lives, little food of low quality depleting the brain from essential sources, getting infected with nasty things, lack of sleep, and most importantly poly-drug use.
It's the lifestyle that's putting too much strain on people's brain.
But alcohol can just as easilly trigger psychosis in such situations.
Anyway, whatever your lifestyle has been in the past few years, it is likely to have at least put some strain on you and made you susceptible for flash-back's, wich i would say is a mild psychiatric phenomenon and not too much to worry about.
I think that alcohol could just as easily have done the same thing. It's a freak event that may happen occasionaly in one in a million people or so.
I once started hallucinating from an injection i got from my dentist, wich probably was procaine or something simmilar, and a couple glasses of wine. Nothing more.
Opiyum
Rising Star
polytrip said:
Addicts end up in psych wards because that's where they send detoxing addicts voluntarily or involuntarily to detoxify. They end up in mental institutions because that's where insurance companies decided a long time ago they should go. Lots of people end up in psychiatric clinics, even people just under the normal strain of existence in this fucked up society we have created with the insane rules and regulations that the authorities impose on us.
As far as my mental state I was upset that day and pining over a woman and having issues with money, both of which have been resolved, but now and prior to then I'm very mentally stable now and more emotionally stable than a lot of sober people I know. I do still over react to certain stressful situations but for the most part I'm a pretty healthy person and I always eat well even when actively using I do my best to eat as best as I possibly can.
I just don't think this was a flashback, whatever that really means. Freak occurance maybe but nonetheless a freak occurance worth nothing and looking into.
Were it easier to study illicit psychoactive compounds in the more advanced parts of the world these are the kinds of drug combinations and such that could teach us so much more about the brain and these substances and how they work and work together.
It's true anything herein is only speculation but there's nothing wrong with that...it gets people brains working and possibly thinking in different ways than they had before.
I'm gonna look into this.Opiyum said:
This was one of my 'freak-events', for wich i still don't have any explanation.
Alot of people that live on the streets are heroin addicts as well..at least here in vancouver..its very bad for heroin here..and the way the RCMP and VPD treat these people is god dman discusting...Id probend in in a psych ward aftr living through all this shit as well..heroin or not...I can see how that would leave someone a bit psychologically disturbed.
Opiyum
Rising Star
fractal enchantment said:
You know what though the NAOMI project and the safe injection sites that they have been experimenting with there in vancouver and other parts of canada and a few other parts of the world signify a giant step in the right direction and in fact they have been very successful. It's amazing and I'm so proud of Canada and the people who had the balls to start safe/cleen injection sites and then the Naomi project ontop of that is just remarkable...I just hope it isn't forgoten when the politicians who enacted it are gone. I hope these projects these trials are the first of many...Go vancouver!
You canadians are amazing. So compassionate.
In terms of potential for harm and actual harm caused there most certainly are better and worse drugs, we all know this. I rub shoulders with both aya users and junk users. I agree that post about 'genetic waste' was hateful, and I'm not happy with hearing innocent children described in that way, but I can entirely understand where the poster's frustration is coming from. The people who tried to mug me and have mugged many of my friends were not addicted to aya, they were addicted to junk- the few who the police managed to be competent enough to catch all had it in their blood after arrest. It's not easy to sympathise with a person who attacks you. The parents who neglected and abused their children then surrendered them to the state such that my friends were moved to adopt them and spend their lives trying to repair these unfortunate kids both psychologically and physically... these people were not addicted to aya- they said they're heroin addicts. The people selling stolen bikes on my street, the people shoplifting in my local shop, the people aggressive begging at scared lone girls as they walk home... junk, junk, junk, crack, some now onto junk because of the time they couldn't get hold of crack. Aya doesn't rot anyone from the inside out until they commit evil acts every day of their lives. I know that not all junkies become criminals, but all the ones I know personally certainly went down that road, including family who had no unfortunate upbringing to blame. The most fortunate has ended up a prozac zombie, the majority are in and out of prison, and the worst case scenario is the one who died of AIDS. Anyone who prescribes junk for themselves is a fool. Fine, take your choice and take your ride if that's what you want for yourself, but then leave the rest of the population alone. I wouldn't have anything against junk if it wasn't detrimental to my life, to my community, and to anyone other than the people who choose to use it.acolon_5 said:
I'm not surprised your friends are calling us snobs, elitists, and assholes. I've met psychedelic users with their attitude too (they often combine psyches with MDMA etc to turn them into thrills instead of lessons), I used to be a bit of a hedonistic thrillseeker when I was a kid... but junk is a whole other level. I'm ranting I know, but this is an emotive subject here.
Opiyum it was not cool for you to direct your friends from that 'diametrically opposed' forum to this thread, couldn't you remove the link/thread over there? What is the point of it other than causing conflict? Traveler has enough problems with troublemakers signing up to try to take advantage of his good intentions for a selfish laugh, he doesn't need a campaign by your angry mates. He's a nice guy, I wish people would quit messing with his site. If you're one of those people who doesn't like the Nexus, better to ignore us and spend your time doing something you'll really enjoy instead. Play computer games, shoot heroin, whatever. The fact is this place is meant to be about genuine entheogens, not kicks, and for anyone who wants kicks surely there are more appropriate sites elsewhere that you'll find far more satisfying. Don't waste your time doing less fulfilling stuff like I just did writing this! :lol:
Opiyum
Rising Star
ohayoco said:
Before anything I want to state that I love the Nexus and it has changed my life immensely and the potential for it to continue doing so is remarkable.....
I read your post even though it became clear very quickly that you haven't read this entire thread (if you have then what you said is even more baffling) and have three things to say and then a bit to say in general about myself and other miscellaneous stuff. One. The Traveler himself said it was alright and said the thread had merit as was going just fine as did two of the other mod/admins (I'm not sure what they are). Also I'm sure Traveler and the other mods are all grown men or women who can take care of themselves. They don't need you to protect them.
Two, It's because of the war on drugs and prohibition that people addicted to drugs like Crystal and coke and heroin that they, some of them, resort to lying cheating and stealing.
Three I already explained why I opened each forums ability to view the thread and won't repeat myself again but I will say I didn't do it to create conflict. I did it with best of intentions. You should read the entire thread on both forums before replying....better yet if you don't like the topic and have such negative feelings and emotions because of it you always have to option of not reading it.
There are plenty of people from both forums who understand why the thread was created and are able to think about it rationally instead of letting their emotions get in the way and keep them from positive and progressive thinking. Both of which are qualities that lead to things like decriminilazation (?sp?) of things like say....DMT and LSD but when you get a hysterical mother in court crying about her child that jumped out a window high on shrooms, or you get a sister who has to visit her brother once a month for the rest of both of their lives in the mental hospital because he took way to much Lsd in the late 70's and is now a full blown paranoid schizophrenic (he's my uncle and he had a predisposition but still had he not taken such a high dose he would probably have been okay) then your not going to see people thinking about the big picture objectively but rather how it has effected their lives.
This is a normal human reaction and I completely understand it but we do as humans have the ability to transcend our baser human instincts and find the divine within ourselves. You too are quite capable of doing so and because of what I've learned in my life especially over the last six years studying all things psycho active compounds and in the last year entheogens (namely DMT) I am able to better understand what it is I am truly capable of but of course I am not near perfect and never will be.
Lastly didn't it occur to you that you are being extremely judgemental? Why are you being so? What purpose and or good is it really doing?
I'm actually anti-prohibition too, check out the LEAP link in my signature. The only way I'm really being judgemental is in judging skag as bad news and a poor choice. Do you disagree? If so, why? I also already said that I am against the irresponsible use of psychedelics, so you don't need to bring that up. Without being a scientist in the relevent area, you can't really say your uncle wouldn't have developed schizophrenia at some point, and even if he wouldn't have, you say he took "way too much LSD" which is not responsible use, so this runs contrary to my personal attitude to psychedelics. I agree that the mental health issue is worrying, which is why it's an area I try to keep an eye out for develops in, and why I'm now cautious in promoting their use.
As I already said, if a heroin user wants to use and doesn't impinge on my freedom and the rights of others, then I'm fine with that. But every heroin addict I have personally come into contact with HAS impinged on my and my friend's freedoms, sometimes violently, so I think I and others are justified in disliking heroin. Don't brush that aside as just 'judgemental'. I'm not saying you are like that, just the addicts who have impacted on my life to date, which has made me think that skag just isn't worth the heartache. When people start talking about cocaine on here, there are similar reactions from a Brazilian guy, and others, and I don't begrudge their point of view based on their personal experience, despite knowing people who take cocaine. I appreciate why they would have such a view, and actually he altered my own Western view of cocaine, and I'm grateful to him for opening my eyes. Whereas you seem to want to brush what I have experienced under the carpet.
I agree, the government should just give those who need it heroin for free... I may as well tell you that I think they should get it free if they agree to have the snip (with their eggs/sperm frozen in case they can prove themselves responsible one day). You're going to hate me saying that, but it's less of a travesty than the horrific child abuse that goes on every day and people I know have suffered under junky parents. This isn't just crap I've read about in newspapers, I really do know these kids and some of them are fucked for life- such as with attachment disorder, incapable of empathy such that they will always be outcast by others no matter how hard they try to fit in, because they can't help but steal or act selfishly, all because their parents left them crying alone when they needed interaction with a primary carer's facial experessions to develop the part of their brain that provides the ability to empathise. It is heartbreaking to watch a kid with this grow up.
You're right, I'm not Traveler nor a mod, but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion. What purpose does what I'm saying have? I'm happy to say what others are too nice to say, because I think it needs saying. Maybe you'll listen, maybe you won't, it's your choice. But here's what I would change if I were you, and you're free to ignore it because I have no authority here, I'm sorry if my tone and what I'm saying aggravates you but try to overlook it if you can. The title of this thread would be fine as something like "Healing WARNING: could heroin potentiate DMT?". But "DMT50mgs smoked + Heroin(40mgs IV 6 HOURS LATER!!!) = near breakthrough without more DMT....yeah" concerns me, especially the '...yeah', because it associates heroin use with the revered hippy grail on an open forum, so could encourage use with the younger kids who revere DMT. It's also steeped in bravado. And your chosen name, Opi"yum", seems intended to further glorify heroin. And then there's the link from your other forum which I think was manipulative gameplaying. Talk in the context of healing heroin addiction, and then I agree that the thread woud have value. Otherwise, I think you're just taking the piss and taking advantage of well intentioned people, many of whom (unlike myself) would bend over backwards to tolerate you in order to try to help you. Think of me as judgemental if you like, I really don't mind, I probably am a bit. I am actually trying to make the world a better place in my weird way. I'll leave you to it now, and I wish you nothing but good things despite how my posts may read.
As I already said, if a heroin user wants to use and doesn't impinge on my freedom and the rights of others, then I'm fine with that. But every heroin addict I have personally come into contact with HAS impinged on my and my friend's freedoms, sometimes violently, so I think I and others are justified in disliking heroin. Don't brush that aside as just 'judgemental'. I'm not saying you are like that, just the addicts who have impacted on my life to date, which has made me think that skag just isn't worth the heartache. When people start talking about cocaine on here, there are similar reactions from a Brazilian guy, and others, and I don't begrudge their point of view based on their personal experience, despite knowing people who take cocaine. I appreciate why they would have such a view, and actually he altered my own Western view of cocaine, and I'm grateful to him for opening my eyes. Whereas you seem to want to brush what I have experienced under the carpet.
I agree, the government should just give those who need it heroin for free... I may as well tell you that I think they should get it free if they agree to have the snip (with their eggs/sperm frozen in case they can prove themselves responsible one day). You're going to hate me saying that, but it's less of a travesty than the horrific child abuse that goes on every day and people I know have suffered under junky parents. This isn't just crap I've read about in newspapers, I really do know these kids and some of them are fucked for life- such as with attachment disorder, incapable of empathy such that they will always be outcast by others no matter how hard they try to fit in, because they can't help but steal or act selfishly, all because their parents left them crying alone when they needed interaction with a primary carer's facial experessions to develop the part of their brain that provides the ability to empathise. It is heartbreaking to watch a kid with this grow up.
You're right, I'm not Traveler nor a mod, but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion. What purpose does what I'm saying have? I'm happy to say what others are too nice to say, because I think it needs saying. Maybe you'll listen, maybe you won't, it's your choice. But here's what I would change if I were you, and you're free to ignore it because I have no authority here, I'm sorry if my tone and what I'm saying aggravates you but try to overlook it if you can. The title of this thread would be fine as something like "Healing WARNING: could heroin potentiate DMT?". But "DMT50mgs smoked + Heroin(40mgs IV 6 HOURS LATER!!!) = near breakthrough without more DMT....yeah" concerns me, especially the '...yeah', because it associates heroin use with the revered hippy grail on an open forum, so could encourage use with the younger kids who revere DMT. It's also steeped in bravado. And your chosen name, Opi"yum", seems intended to further glorify heroin. And then there's the link from your other forum which I think was manipulative gameplaying. Talk in the context of healing heroin addiction, and then I agree that the thread woud have value. Otherwise, I think you're just taking the piss and taking advantage of well intentioned people, many of whom (unlike myself) would bend over backwards to tolerate you in order to try to help you. Think of me as judgemental if you like, I really don't mind, I probably am a bit. I am actually trying to make the world a better place in my weird way. I'll leave you to it now, and I wish you nothing but good things despite how my posts may read.