This is not what I conceded. I said that there are people who use the terms as you do. It is a bit of a stretch to say many. Of the 100 or so books I have read on the subject... ALL OF THEM use the Theist - Agnostic - Atheist spectrum. This includes all the big atheists like Dawkins, Hitchens et. al.Garyp88 said:As HF has already conceded, many people disagree with that way of looking at it and as far as I can tell the words them self back up the people who disagree, since theist/atheist is to do with belief and gnostic/agnostic is to do with knowledge.SnozzleBerry said:Theists-------Agnostics-------Atheists.
Linguistically your dual axis model makes sense, and there may even be some merit to some ways of interpreting such labels as some seem to think (especially in agnostic circles). But this is a philosophical debate that goes back for centuries... it has pre-existing terminology, and this terminology is simply not your dual-axis model my friend.They are not on the same axis, throwing a position pertaining to knowledge in between two positions pertaining to belief doesn't make sense. Agnostic doesn't tell you anything on it's own, it is generally used as shorthand for agnostic atheist... but agnostic theist is just as valid. An agnostic atheist doesn't have any god beliefs, but doesn't claim to know there is no god either (how many people have any of you seen ever claiming to *know* that there is no god?). An agnostic theist does believe in a god, but doesn't claim to know they are correct.
Your assertion about "not having any god beliefs" is patently false as we have been showing over and over on this thread. One must have some belief in this regard if one is aware of the subject at all. The belief might be that you can't know, or that you can but don't know, or that you don't care to know... you can be leaning in one direction or the other... as well as have the basic knowing in the positive or negative. No belief is simply not feasible if you have thought about it even for 1 minute.
You don't seem like a very strong atheist to me. A strong atheist would own that he believes there are no gods. You seem to want to say that... thus your Santa analogy, but you have hedged your bet with the typical (and very rational I might add) stance that you can't be completely sure of anything.As it goes, and I hadn't bothered mentioning this earlier since I don't think it is relevant, I am a fairly strong atheist. Every god proposition that has been given to me seems to collapse with a bit of thought. The bible is full of contradictions and paradoxes, so I have to assume that it wasn't inspired by an omniscient, omnipotent being. Same goes for the Quran, it has less contradictions than the bible and has a mechanism for dealing with them which the bible lacks, but it still has many things which seem to be written from the viewpoint of an ignorant man and not from the viewpoint of an all knowing creator of the universe, so I strongly reject both of these... I am as sure about the non-existence of the Abrahamic god as I am about the non-existence of Santa. I still wouldn't claim certainty though, since really I don't feel certain about anything at all (and that's not just a handy escape route to avoid taking a stance, I just think claiming certainty about anything is naive).
At any rate, since it seems you want to duck out of this debate, I will just say that the Bible and The Quran are not the totality of theistic conception. They barely scratch the surface really... even among religious theism. It is quite possible you might find a branch of Theism that actually makes sense to you. I would look to the non-religious concepts of deity. If your willingness to entertain the concept of deity is limited to cursory inspections of the Jehovah of the Bible and the Allah of the Quran, then it might be more proper to think of yourself as simply anti-Christian and anti-Muslim (again both very rational stances to take).

(j/k)