The Multiverse

[EKUMA1981]

Anybody believe in the Many Worlds Interpretation or Multiverse? I've thought about this theory many times over the years.

One problem I found with the idea is the absence of alien intelligences. I mean if there are an incredibly large number of universes (possibly infinite) then there should be huge numbers of civilisations. We should be surrounded by these beings and clearly we are not. The Fermi Paradox becomes even more weird.

Of course, some intelligences might choose to remain distant and never make contact, but there still should be a large percentage that do want to say, "Hi!" What's stopping them?

One explanation is the vast distances they'd have to travel. Another is the fact that it may be impossible to traverse universes; or travel through the 'bulk' as some physicists call it. However, I find these explanations unlikely as some of these civilisations would be God-like and surely find a solution to the problem of 'inter-universal travel'.

Biocentrism could be the answer to this mystery. Basically, we are truly unique. It's us (consciousness) that creates the universe (or multiverse) and everything in it; the multiverse is ours. If we want other life forms maybe we have to bring them into existence. If enough people want it to happen it probably will.

Has anybody wondered why the universe is so hospitable to us. Why the laws are nicely fined-tuned, why the quantum laws allow us to have all the modern technology; it's possibly all down to consciousness.

Another possibility is that we are living in a simulation created by some intelligence and it has been deliberately programmed to feature no other advanced life forms.

Whatever the truth is it's fun to ponder.

 

[jamie]

"We should be surrounded by these beings and clearly we are not."

Personally I think we are surrounded by many other beings.

 

[EKUMA1981]

Could be, Jamie. They might exist in other dimensions or Hyperspace and that's why we can't directly detect them. But, there should be others like us that we CAN detect directly, huge numbers in fact, if you believe the multiverse concept.

These other beings you speak of, Jamie. Have you had an experience/communication with them?

 

[ewok]

One problem I found with the idea is the absence of alien intelligences. I mean if there are an incredibly large number of universes (possibly infinite) then there should be huge numbers of civilisations. We should be surrounded by these beings and clearly we are not.

Isn't the idea every possibility that could happen has happened as a separate universe. So yes there would be huge numbers of civilizations but doesn't mean they would be part of the universe we inhabit. Our universe is just one possible outcome in another there could be alien intelligences that contact or visit the earth of that possible universe.

 

[Maharanj]

Anybody believe in the Many Worlds Interpretation or Multiverse? I've thought about this theory many times over the years.

One problem I found with the idea is the absence of alien intelligences. I mean if there are an incredibly large number of universes (possibly infinite) then there should be huge numbers of civilisations. We should be surrounded by these beings and clearly we are not. The Fermi Paradox becomes even more weird..

We are most likely surrounded with life on other planets, within our own galaxy. We just dont really know it yet. And im not necessarily talking about intelligent life, but microbic atleast (Extremophiles). Theres this basic equation, called drake equation. It estimates the number of alien civilisations we possibly could make contact with. This is done by multiplying a few factors, like fraction of stars who have planets, number of which could support life, has water etc.

Now, this may be a very basic formula and is likely not 100% correct. (not accounting for all factors required to support intelligent life) But it does give you a rough number, a few 100k for our Galaxy alone, as far as i know. Also, more and more planets are discovered everyday.

Of course, some intelligences might choose to remain distant and never make contact, but there still should be a large percentage that do want to say, "Hi!" What's stopping them?

One explanation is the vast distances they'd have to travel. Another is the fact that it may be impossible to traverse universes; or travel through the 'bulk' as some physicists call it. However, I find these explanations unlikely as some of these civilisations would be God-like and surely find a solution to the problem of 'inter-universal travel'...

Distance, technology and time are the biggest obstacles. If we were to encounter intelligent alien life someday, it is much more likely that we come across an unmanned alien spaceprobe, an A.I., or some other machine, than any living creature. It is just more practical to send a robot into space. No need for food & oxygen, also time isnt a factor.

Biocentrism could be the answer to this mystery. Basically, we are truly unique. It's us (consciousness) that creates the universe (or multiverse) and everything in it; the multiverse is ours. If we want other life forms maybe we have to bring them into existence. If enough people want it to happen it probably will.

Has anybody wondered why the universe is so hospitable to us. Why the laws are nicely fined-tuned, why the quantum laws allow us to have all the modern technology; it's possibly all down to consciousness.

Another possibility is that we are living in a simulation created by some intelligence and it has been deliberately programmed to feature no other advanced life forms.

Whatever the truth is it's fun to ponder.

Dont get me wrong, not trying to be rude or anything. But in my opinion theres no real point arguing about this. Because it wouldnt really change anything. Nothing you could do about.

Also, the universe is FAR from hospitable to us. You will notice this as soon as you leave earths orbit, go outside your spacecraft and remove your helmet. It is also evident in the severe muscle loss in zero g without hours of daily training. Not to mention radiation.. The only thing hospitable is our biosphere - earth, where we had millions of years to evolve and adapt.

Peace

 

[endlessness]

But cant life elsewhere just work on a completely different basis? Why do we always suppose it will work under the same principles as us, with need for oxygen or water etc ?

Reminds me of mckenna saying how looking for alien life through radiowave transmissions was like searching the galaxy for a good italian restaurant

 

[Citta]

Biocentrism could be the answer to this mystery. Basically, we are truly unique. It's us (consciousness) that creates the universe (or multiverse) and everything in it; the multiverse is ours. If we want other life forms maybe we have to bring them into existence. If enough people want it to happen it probably will.

Biocentrism doesn't really explain anything, and it's full of holes and misunderstandings of basic science, as well as flat out ignorance regarding recent advances in understanding consciousness through a scientific perspective. We are not unique, as science and reason have perpetually dismantled such ideas throughout history. However, the impulse to see ourselves as somewhat central to the existence of the universe is an old one, and the emotional response to the dismantling of such silliness through science and reason makes people come up with stuff like biocentrism to paint over the gaps in our knowledge with the brush of mystical mumbo-jumbo. Sadly, however, it doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny.

Has anybody wondered why the universe is so hospitable to us. Why the laws are nicely fined-tuned, why the quantum laws allow us to have all the modern technology; it's possibly all down to consciousness.

The universe is not fine-tuned for us at all, in fact it's quite the opposite - life is obviously fine-tuned for the universe. It is not even quite hospitable, because we live in a universe that seems pretty bent on destroying us. Claiming that the laws of the universe are fine-tuned for us is something one hears from time to time, but it generally arises from uneducated people that don't really know what they're talking about. There is in fact great room for variations in the constants that actually will have an effect on the universe without making life as we know it impossible. Also, there is the fact endlessness mentions; that life as we know it here on earth need not be the only form of life possible in this universe.

The fine-tuning argument is a fallacy. If you want to learn more about this, I recommend "The Fallacy of Fine-Tuning" by physicist Victor J. Stenger, where he thouroughly explains why there is no fine-tuning going on in our universe. The book in a short-version can be found here, but I recommend reading the whole thing.

 

[EKUMA1981]

Thanks for the link, Citta.

Maharanj mentioned AI and robots. Exactly! If a civilisation(s) in our universe had a head-start of us (say a million years) they should have gone through a hypothetical 'technological singularity' by now (of course, if they didn't destroy themselves first) and colonised most of the universe. We should see evidence of Von Neumann probes/self-replicating machines. I believe we should also see huge artificial objects out in the depth of space, because I think a lot of them would want to make themselves known.

Also, going back to how unique/special we really are. Some physicists like Frank Tipler believe that the universe requires intelligent life for it to evolve to the next level. He talks about the Omega Point and us playing a big part in it. It also reminds me of Ray Kurzweil's 'The Six Epochs'. In Epoch 6 we gain control of the universe... "Patterns of matter and energy in the universe become saturated with intelligent processes and knowledge...the universe wakes up!" We might see this happen in the next few decades. I'm sure real AI is only a few years away too.

 

[Doodazzle]

The Lovecraft story called "from the beyond".

A "machine" that activates the pineal so you can see all the enities that surround us all the time. Soon enough these entities somehow manage to break through into our world...

The "machine" was even powered by a bundle of copper mesh!


(no wait, I lied about the mesh)

 

[EKUMA1981]

That would be great to see in real life, Bedazzle. If we could somehow coerce them to materialize into our reality. :d

 

[Maharanj]

@EKUMA1981

As to why we havent found anything yet.

We simply can not see or go that far. Theres 2 methods (currently known to me) to detect planets orbiting other stars. First one is to measure the stars "wobble", this means a planet trapped in a stars gravitational field affects the star with its own mass, causing a measurable movement when you look at the star - wobble
This usually works for big planets only, roughly the size of saturn. Its almost impossible to detect faraway earthlike planets with this method, unless they orbit neigbouring stars.

Second method is to measure a stars light-shift at the exact moment a planet passes infront of it. This allows detection of smaller planets, but needs good timing and patience i guess.

I assume with artificial objects you mean huge space stations etc. Well i hate to disappoint you, but unless it was placed in our front yard (Sol-system) theres no way to detect it, unless it was truly massive or a deep space probe flew right past it.



Here are three more links. First one is really cool, its an interactive scale model of the universe. You can start with an atom and zoom all the way out to the observable universe.
Scale of the universe - Interactive

2nd is a atlas of the universe, this helps to comprehend the universes vastness.
Atlas of the universe

Third is a vid. Starting from earth zooming out to the cosmic horizon, and back in to earth. Also helps to understand the scale.
The know universe - Video

 

[DeMolecularTraveler]

But cant life elsewhere just work on a completely different basis? Why do we always suppose it will work under the same principles as us, with need for oxygen or water etc ?

Reminds me of mckenna saying how looking for alien life through radiowave transmissions was like searching the galaxy for a good italian restaurant

:thumb_up:

 

[Doodazzle]

I like the multiverse idea, always have.

I do not like it when it is used in a way that limits or negates personal creativity..

"Anything that can be imagined has already happened, exists somewhere..." No no no no no no no, I am calling bullschtick on that. HOWEVER, my personal inclinations are happy to turn that notion around and spin it differently-- perhaps once it is imagined it sparks something and then it does happen, somewhere. It's all about consciousness. I got no science here, just a "feels right".

@ Endlessness--personally I love the new data that stars are emmitting organic matter all the time. On star trek TNG there was an ancient race that seeded the universe with organic life, a genetic code, aeons ago, hence explaining why klingons, human and romulans all look similar. Well, that is fantasy (and irl I doubt the annunaki played any such role) but if the stars are seeding worlds then recognizable forms, carbon based life and all that just may be the norm. Prokaryotes altered our planets atmosphere a long time ago, making our life possible...perhaps such prokaryotes are an inevible result of this star emitted organic matter thing. Perhaps this happens all over the galaxy, turning lots of worlds into hospitably places.

The above paragraph however relates to our universe, the multiverse is a whole 'nother enchillada.

As to why we have not found anything yet. Hmm, has anyone here ever heard of Hyperspace?

Follow me down another rabbit hole for just a minute.

An artificial reality, accessable by any sentient life-form with the proper tryptamine based consciousness (tryptamine being a morphogenetic form which can exist outside of the physical mind matrix what seemingly birthed it...) A shared "reality" inhabited by all sorts of bumbling fools like us, deamonoids, elves, aliens with amazing technologies as well as god-like beings who perhaps are merely have a few billion year head start on us...

 

[EKUMA1981]

@Maharanj Thanks for links, but I already know all of this info. I've studied cosmology and astronomy for many years.

By artificial objects I meant things that Type 3/4 Civilisations (Kardashev Scale) might be able to construct. Whether or not a civilisation could ever attain this level of advancement, who knows. But, if they do it is theorized they might be able to do 'miraculous' things to space-time. Astro-engineering on galactic scales or higher, for example. Far-fetched, possibly. Perhaps they could tow entire galaxies, merge them and create a super-powerful beacon that everybody could detect (well, in the observable part of the universe.)