The official Ron Paul thread

[SnozzleBerry]

i asked snozzleberry what it is that he wants and he didn;t answer me, much the same as you thought raay of light didnt answer you or snozz...and snozz did your best to shoot him down in flames...Ron Paul knows what is wrong with america and propses to do something about it. Its more than can be said about most other politicians in america.

Now hold on...not only have I already answered your question multiple times throughout this thread...I told you you could find the answer to your question throughout this thread. I didn't ignore...my answer was to actually read the discussion...if my positions are still not clear to you after you read them, then ask me for clarification and I will gladly give it.

I didn't "do my best to shoot [Ray] down". I challenged the reasons that Ray was presenting as reasons to vote for Paul. These were challenges that were never answered other than "he's got a good outlook" and "at least he's willing to try and change things"...which are not answers when the challenge is "The president has not authority over these things".

Finally, your end statement "Ron Paul knows what is wrong with america and propses to do something about it. Its more than can be said about most other politicians in america" is entirely devoid of any political fact and fails to address ANY issue or challenge that has been raised in the prior 17 pages of this thread...we are WAY too late in the game for mindless rhetoric to be flung around this thread in such a sloppy and apathetic manner.


DeMenTed - If you feel my thoughts/opinions are mainstream/brainwashed...I'd love to know what would qualify as radical or "out of the box".

 

[a1pha]

Ray of ligh offered a point in a new and correct direction but snozzleberries political education doesnt allow for new and different thinking. He is entangled in the corrupt system.

No, what Ray offered is numerous threads (four now) with nothing other than YouTube videos. I don't consider this activity open-minded - I consider it conformist internet non-sense wasting valuable hard-drive space on the Nexus Server.

Also, he's not even in this system - he's not an American.

for a guy that wishes the thread didn't exist you sure have contributed a lot to it .

You forced it. I have a deep passion for destroying YouTube propaganda (if you haven't noticed).

 

[a1pha]

PS I still love ya Ray. I know you're a good guy. But certain topics bother me here at the Nexus - and you seem to hit them all. =/

 

[RayOfLight]

thank you Im sorry for hitting topics that bother you , im not trying to anger you.

I know I frustrate you man but I really do post with good intentions , I love you too bro and like I told olympus mon, this is just a discussion and I'm not gonna take anything personally.

I think my world view can rub people the wrong way here, I consider the nexus to something like planet vulcan where logic and science reign supreme.

I'm just the type of guy that goes by my emotional feeling towards something and yes I do have a good feeling about Ron Paul, I don't mind that you guys oppose my opinion I guess thats what this forum is all about.

Can a person like me totally fit into the nexus mold and never rub ppl the wrong way...... probably not but I just wanna say to anyone out there that I have rubbed the wrong way I'm just trying to express things I feel are important, thats all.

Feel free to challenge anything I say.

 

[a1pha]

I don't understand why you resent any information thats presented in video format.

Because I can't address arguments in a video. You need to think critically about the ideas presented, then reflect on those ideas with sound logic.

I also don't understand why you cant appreciate the fact that what happens in america greatly affects me.

I appreciate that fact. But I have yet to see a thread on Canadian politics from you - which leads me to believe you'd rather meddle in the affairs of others before addressing your own.

I also don't really understand your hostile tone towards me in general, its really too bad you can't see that I'm making these posts with a sincere desire to help the current situation.

I'm not hostile. I'm just trying to understand you, since you insist on posting propaganda here.

Its one thread dude , and just because YOU think the topic isn't worthy of discussion and YOU think my arguments have been crushed doesn't necessarily make it so.

It's a very worthy topic. Appropriate? No. This is the DMT-Nexus - NOT Politico.

Also, you have yet to present arguments to me - so I cannot crush them. This entire thread all I've wanted from you is a sound argument, and you have yet to give me one.

 

[DeMenTed]

i asked snozzleberry what it is that he wants and he didn;t answer me, much the same as you thought raay of light didnt answer you or snozz...and snozz did your best to shoot him down in flames...Ron Paul knows what is wrong with america and propses to do something about it. Its more than can be said about most other politicians in america.

Now hold on...not only have I already answered your question multiple times throughout this thread...I told you you could find the answer to your question throughout this thread. I didn't ignore...my answer was to actually read the discussion...if my positions are still not clear to you after you read them, then ask me for clarification and I will gladly give it.

I didn't "do my best to shoot [Ray] down". I challenged the reasons that Ray was presenting as reasons to vote for Paul. These were challenges that were never answered other than "he's got a good outlook" and "at least he's willing to try and change things"...which are not answers when the challenge is "The president has not authority over these things".

Finally, your end statement "Ron Paul knows what is wrong with america and propses to do something about it. Its more than can be said about most other politicians in america" is entirely devoid of any political fact and fails to address ANY issue or challenge that has been raised in the prior 17 pages of this thread...we are WAY too late in the game for mindless rhetoric to be flung around this thread in such a sloppy and apathetic manner.


DeMenTed - If you feel my thoughts/opinions are mainstream/brainwashed...I'd love to know what would qualify as radical or "out of the box".

Snozz please read the very first post made by ray of light at the beginning of this thread. Where does it mention reasons as to why ray wanted people to vote for ron paul? he simply posted a link and you totally over complicated things with political mish mash. The thread wasn't started with that type of mindset, chill out man

You just dont like ron paul, its easy to see. Where as i like hik and so do many other people, they dont "need" go have to explain to you why they think this way. They think this way and that is that, accept it and stop with your literary slight of hand. I can see it and so can many others i presume.

Believing things can actually change is what i would call thinking out of the box stuff, so yeah i would say your thoughts are mainstream or brainwashed, whichever u prefer

 

[RayOfLight]

I think Its amazing that an american politician can stir me up to the point that I'm willing to post about him on an international DMT forum as a Canadian citizen, that right there should tell you that this guy is different.

(Ron Paul is for personal liberty witch includes the right to do with your mind and body as you wish witch is why I think the discussion is relevant here)

I never cared about politics until I listened to Ron Paul speak, everything that comes out of his mouth is gold imo.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Snozz please read the very first post made by ray of light at the beginning of this thread. Where does it mention reasons as to why ray wanted people to vote for ron paul? he simply posted a link and you totally over complicated things with political mish mash. The thread wasn't started with that type of mindset...)

The only mindset worth discussing politics is a pragmatic one...otherwise it's mindless (and pointless) fantasy. If someone says "VOTE FOR PAUL" we can safely assume the reason is because they believe he can achieve something in the political forum. If the individual being touted is a sham (i.e. they make promises they can't keep) that is ENTIRELY the type of thing that belongs in a political thread.

Just because you would prefer if I didn't point out the flaws in a character many people support (despite not having legitimate or even quantifiable reasons why) or would prefer it if I didn't engage the topic analytically/critically doesn't mean that's the appropriate manner in which to discuss things, nor does it mean that I will engage such issues as you would prefer.

Claims require evidence...endorsements are based on claims...Ray chose to endorse, I chose to critique the claims of the man he endorsed as they are flawed. I'm sorry if you would rather I not think critically about this; that's just not who I am.


Ray - How can you say everything out of his mouth is gold when it's already been shown that he can't DO many of the things you're calling gold??? Is a physician's opinion "gold" if they claim to have magical panacea's, yet have no viable means of achieving what they claim their cure-all's can do? No...we'd label him a quack.

 

[jamie]

why does everyone care so much about who someone wants to vote for?..seriousily I just find all of this sort of odd.

 

[RayOfLight]

Im still waiting for you to quote all these specific promises he made, then we can go from there.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Im still waiting for you to quote all these specific promises he made, then we can go from there.

We.

Have.

Already.

Done.

This.

Here's one post...I'm NOT going back through the 17 pages to dig out each one of these already-discussed topics. If this is where this thread needs to be locked/removed, so be it...but if we're not covering new ground, there's no reason for it to exist.

Ron paul says he would end all the unjustified and illegal wars perpetrated by the usa and acknowledge the fact that the terrorist threat is actually created by the US meddling in other nations affairs, that right there is reason enough to vote for the guy as far as I'm concerned. There is nothing lofty or undo able about it, PULL TROOPS OUT , SEND THEM HOME . PERIOD. SIMPLE ...I dunno how I can be any more clear than that.

How? This is not solely a presidential power. Most of this decision making rests with congress. Corporate interests assure that we will be staying in Iraq...we just built the largest military base/embassy on foreign soil anywhere in the world in Iraq. Do you really think we're going to abandon that? We have military troops stacked up in the kandahar valley, getting blown to bits every day (moreso than anywhere else at present, iirc) specifically to open up a trade route from afghanistan to pakistan for Haliburton to move supplies. Why would we abandon these two projects, nevermind the hundreds of similar undertakings that are also going on? We have a vested interest in continuing these wars and plundering these resources.

He would also end the drug war witch would save your country god knows how much money in throwing drug users in jail, that right there should be enough reason to vote for him again. For the life of me I just don't understand what it is about that that is so hard to comprehend.

This power does not lie with the president either, but also with congress. Ray, i respect your right to an opinion, but your posts reflect an absolute lack of knowledge of American civics. Many Americans also lack this understanding, so it's not overly surprising that you are unaware of the mechanisms by which change happens in our country, but you need to understand that the things you are saying simply cannot happen as you present them.

Ray, as to your points about healthcare, are you aware that the USA could change the national deficit into a surplus solely by nationalizing healthcare? This is an economic fact and is easily found with a simple google search. The majority of Amnericans supported a public option for healthcare, as evidenced by numerous polls, but because the politicians are owned by corporate and financial interests (of which the insurance agencies make up a huge percentage) they ignored the will of the people to ensure the sanctity of the oligarchs.

Lastly, I have a final question for you. Do you know who pays Ron Paul's campaign bills? Do you know who supports him? You talk about him as though he is not supported by special interest groups, corporate interests or PACs...I would suggest you look into this because, afaik, there is no one currently serving in the American political system on the national level who does not get money from these people. The reason for this is that it is impossible to fund campaigns and win election without the significant contributions such organizations are able to make. So when you present Paul as a man of the people, devoid of special interest influence, I believe you are in error.

Again, I commend Ron Paul for supporting this bill and hope that we can achieve some real change in this arena. I'm going to be calling m,y representative again today to urge her to support this measure.

 

[jamie]

seriousily..what is the point of this thread going back and forth like this? Does everyone really have the time to worry about politics like this? Who cares either way? Why does it matter so much?

 

[RayOfLight]

in subsequent posts after that I pointed out that he admits he can only do so much but that he will TRY to make these changes, He has said he will do whatever he can as president to implement the changes, he didn't promise anything and if I said he did somewhere in there I was mistaken.

Ron Paul wouldn't promise something he cant deliver, hes too honest.
Snozz, your suggesting that Ron Paul is a liar, doesn't know what he talking about and is a nut in general..... and I guess all the people that support him are too, do you really think someone with his level of experience and wisdom would just spout off utter crap like that ?

 

[SnozzleBerry]

in subsequent posts after that I pointed out that he admits he can only do so much but that he will TRY to make these changes, He has said he will do whatever he can as president to implement the changes, he didn't promise anything and if I said he did somewhere in there I was mistaken.

Ron Paul wouldn't promise something he cant deliver, hes too honest.

Really?

Really?

So now we're drawing the line on the fact that he hasn't "promised" but has said he will do "whatever he can"? If all he can do is hope to influence things...how is that reason to vote for him? This type of semantical discussion is not conducive to legitimate conversation...on what grounds are you saying people should support him?

Why should people support Ron Paul...say it here, say it clear so this can just end...please!

 

[RayOfLight]

people should support Ron Paul because hes proven his honesty by voting in line with the constitution in congress.

I cant be any more clear than that .

 

[SnozzleBerry]

This was already touched on as well.

There is no actual argument being made here, just empty rhetoric.

The constitution has no legal bearing in MANY arenas thanks to modifications via supreme court or subsequent legislation (like the PATRIOT ACTS).

Please Ray, do some research on American civics...this is painful to watch.

 

[RayOfLight]

snozz.... I give up. You win........I'm an idiot and Ron Pauls an asshole.

 

[blue_velvet]

I will explain why I will vote for Ron Paul and then quickly duck out of this conversation.

The President is Commander in Chief of the armed forces. This gives the President the power to order the troops home. We have spent trillions on these wars, trillions that could have been better spent at home. Even Ron Paul has explicitly stated he would prefer we spend that money on welfare than on murder and violence. To think we need to preserve stability and peace in the Middle East through our military might is neoconservatism. War is something Ron Paul can do something about without jumping through flaming hoops.

On other issues I seriously doubt he can be any worse than the last two presidents. If anything, he'll at least put the growth of the state apparatus on hold (they call him Dr. No) and pressure the DEA to stop its persecution of medical marijuana users.

At the very least it might be worth voting for him in the Republican primary if only to prevent the other Republican candidates from having a chance. Bachman and Perry are particularly frightening and I will do what it takes to keep their fingers off the big red button. Ultimately, I like Gary Johnson for president, but Ron Paul has sapped all the life from his campaign and the media has blacked him out worse than anyone, even worse than they did Paul in 2008.

 

[benzyme]

The reason Ron Paul gets snubbed is, he'll actually change the status quo in many respects. The Corporate board members have already made their decision on who the next puppet will be, long before they held debates; their interest is simple: continue the status quo.
this means carry out the best interests of oligopolies and the prison-industrial complex.

alex jones has been saying this for years. you guys may think he's a ranting lunatic, but there's certainly a lot of truth to what he says.

 

[RayOfLight]

Lol Fail !