The 'risks' of doing Aya improperly / unsupervised?

[Purges]

So once again I am gearing up for another oral journey. It will probably be Pharma as that is what I have at the moment, and I am too broke to buy any more vine / rue in (boo hoo )...

Any how, I have been reading up on these things, as I have done for years, and came across a couple of articles / videos etc, that pointed to taking Aya (/pharma /smoked DMT/Changa as well I guess) as being dangerous, leaving us open to 'spiritual parasites' and demonic entities. I have also heard of Nexians talking of posession type scenarios and, to be honest, I am not too keen on getting posessed / soul sucked etc. At the same time, I have little money and too much responsibility to just hop on a plane to find me a bona fide curandero / shaman.

Here is an EXAMPLE of what I am talking about... Although it does almost start coming off as an advert for Santo Daime at the end...

"It is only safe to participate in an ayahuasca-ceremony which is guided by a full trained shaman. There are so many self-made shamans at the moment (mostly westerners). I have been in most of their ceremonies and not one of them is spiritually safe.

The medicine of ayahuasca is designed to bring healing and light into our body and spirit. Therefore it releases all types of negativity out of our system by vomiting, shitting, crying. Ayahuasca is mentioned for a full release of trauma and pain.( see the chapter Ayahuasca on this website). A lot of westerners participating in the ceremonies are full of pain, sadness or anger and around
20 % of them carry in their auras so called demonic entities. Of course most people are not aware that they carry these types of entities, because these beings live on the astral plane whereby they feed themselves on the negative energy from the human being they posess. Demonic entities are usually connected to a certain trauma that somebody has experienced in his or her life, mostly in childhood. They can also enter after alcohol- or drug-abuse: cocaine, heroine,speed, lsd, xtc and even marihuana. "

Now, I have ingested (more than) my fair share of 'lsd, xtc, marihuana' etc :lol: so it's probably fair to say that, if they exist (I am open to the idea), I already am burdened by such entities :shock: :? :surprised

What kind of precautions do you all take before a journey?

Thanks,

P x

 

[blue lunar night]

I just want to commment on the following statement:

"It is only safe to participate in an ayahuasca-ceremony which is guided by a full trained shaman.

This is absolutely untrue. I have been in ceremonies with 'bona-fide' full-trained Shipibo shamans and was still brutally attacked.
Don't get me wrong, they were still very helpful, but they are certainly not an invincible firewall.

Furthermore, a friend who runs a retreat center in Pucallpa recently had to deal with the following situation:
a very accomplished Shipibo shaman (and her close, trusted friend of 5+ years) had a private ceremony with a woman who was there to heal past sexual abuse.
this shaman ended up convincing the woman to have sex with him in order to 'heal' the trauma.
the woman fully believed that she had been healed until my friend, with a broken heart, had to tell the woman she had been exploited.
the shaman skipped town.

a couple of ideas have been floated in the 'esoteric self defense' thread, though IMO this is an area that needs a lot more work and attention...

 

[christian]

There are good shaman and bad ones. Perhaps seek out a gringo shaman, and be sure to go with a friend if you are a vulnerable female. I would not advise a person with "obvious issues" to try aya alone, and would suggest other forms of treatment before even considering seeking a reputable curandero, with a companion for safety.

If you are fit and well, then it's quite safe to do alone as long as attention is paid to dose, set, setting IMO. This is mentioned on ayahuasca.com

 

[ntwhtyouknw]

A lot of people seem to go into this with no spiritual framework at all At the least it is good to be with someone close who has a grasp on the spiritual.

 

[mrwiggle]

this sortof touches on some ideas that i have been pontificating over for awhile now i was considering making a thread about it but its much more convenient to just chime in on this one, i have essentially had a full gammut of expieriences(not to say ive expierinced all that could be, i know for a fact i have not) but it is to say that i have sat with shamans of various backgrounds, natives with lineage, dedicated westerners, silly kids who brewed up some plants in their basement as well as making my own brews and administering to others, and dosing by myself, i would say that, it can be safe or dangerous either way, the most important thing is to make a spiritual "bubble" prepare your space, do same pranayama, some kudalini yoga, etc i have come to the thought that dosing aya in particular if like a type of psychic surgery, the slightest of "hand" can cause major spiritual "bleeding" as it were, though a succesfull procedure can bring tremendous benefit, being in a very low income bracket i too have had the difficulty of finding a way to work with the medicine within my budget and the cheapest way being to brew it up oneself, i would say if possible instead of going straight to the full on levels try taking several sessions at lower doses so that you can start to tune in and work out some of those energetic "kinks" while your somewhat in control, this will make you more prepared for the harrowing hurling through time and space... equip yourself with a few spiritual tools to be help ground yourself if things get out of hand, maybe a bit of sage or ceder (essential oil might be good so you dont have to try and deal with fire) just remember BREATH DEEP and THANK YOU...it can be hard to remember or deal with any level of complexity so those two things have been real life savers for me

 

[○]

I've come to find a good meditation session for 30-45 minutes to help settle the mind into that ethereal silence helps a million-fold. Not doing so imho you can end up playing russian roulette with these higher manifolds of the mind, be them autonomous entities, possession, or what-have-you. These forms can take on our highest highs or our lowest lows, and more times than not they take control and you end up having to just ride them out. That's why I find a long session of meditation is crucial in settling all these waves.

And intention....honest intention is everything.

Safe travels

 

[Eliyahu]

Hola Purges,

You know I have been in the thick of it from reading my trip reports....

So I gotta say,
Anyone who understands "the rolling out of the red carpet thing" should be fine on Ayahuasca. <(inside joke)


Ayahuasca is more protective than anything I have ever experienced...Just don't leave out the Caapi.

I does not matter how big, bad or scary demonic entities are..they are absolutely no match for angelic entities, no contest. I may not know you at all purges, but I know you well enough to know that plenty of Angels have your back...

And as far as possession goes, I have seen it go down but that was in extreme cases and the people who were possessed were extremely vulnerable to attack because of pre existing psychological dysfunctions..

Demons have attempted to control me, and have succeeded in my weaker moments but once you learn to recognize how they attack you by getting into your thoughts then it's easy to recognize when your thoughts and emotions begin to become controlled by a foreign influence, if you notice the take over in time you can certainly reverse it.

At the end of the day and when it all boils down it comes to this:
Satan is nothing more than an accuser entity, his job is like that of a prosecutor. He accuses you every day before the Creator reporting and pointing out every way that you have violated the Torah. By doing this the accuser attempts to stir up wrathful judgement against you and he also tries to paralyze you with guilt.

The Dark spirits that surround a person attempt to lead that person into self defilement in one form another in order to help tip the scales towards the advantage of the Accuser.

But because the universe itself is built upon a foundation of Mercy and compassion and also because the "panel of judges" take into account the over zealous nature of the prosecution. The judgment generally tends to lean towards your advantage, for it says in the Torah..

"YHWH was mindful that they were formed from clay and was therefore compassionate towards them"
and also it says......... "I have blotted out your sin for the sake of my own glory"

How do I know the universe is founded on mercy? Because, the first letter of the Hebrew Bible is the Letter Bet. The letter Bet looks like a house, and symbolizes mercy compassion, mercy and grace.)

I think that if your intentions are truly all about self correction and learning wisdom and understanding then I believe you will be 100% protected from anything that may try and take you down.

If all else fails my advise would be to repent like crazy to your maker. It has always worked for me in times of deep trouble..and also, just as a suggestion, the word Yeshua literally means A cry for help in Hebrew, and this rule has never let me down even in my darkest moments..


(Below I attached the image of a letter bet)

 

[Eliyahu]

And if you have not already read it...

here is my trip report having to do with a fierce demonic attack on Ayahuasca

My word is all I have/An Ayahuasca lesson I learned the hard way - DMT Experiences - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[tele]

At the end of the day and when it all boils down it comes to this:
Satan is nothing more than an accuser entity, his job is like that of a prosecutor. He accuses you every day before the Creator reporting and pointing out every way that you have violated the Torah. By doing this the accuser attempts to stir up wrathful judgement against you and he also tries to paralyze you with guilt.

Oh really?

Have you met the bad boy and seen his actions?

Is there even a satan?

Purges, I think sitter you like and trust would be all that's required. Just in case things go bad, you always have your back covered and will come back stronger. When it comes to tripping for several hours under medium to high doses, there's no harm in sitter, it can be the best thing to have if things go to the "dark side". Good luck and let us know how it went.

 

[Eliyahu]

Tele wrote:

Eliyahu wrote:
At the end of the day and when it all boils down it comes to this:
Satan is nothing more than an accuser entity, his job is like that of a prosecutor. He accuses you every day before the Creator reporting and pointing out every way that you have violated the Torah. By doing this the accuser attempts to stir up wrathful judgement against you and he also tries to paralyze you with guilt.


Oh really?

Have you met the bad boy and seen his actions?

Is there even a satan?

My answer to this is Yes and Yes. However.....
no way to prove or debate that it's not all just in head so I won't attempt to...

-I just give advice derived from my own personal experiences, I realize not every one Jibes with my view points, but for the people that do dig where I am coming from this information can actually be valuable. Like I have stated before. I am NOT trying to convert anyone here, just providing food for thought

 

[Purges]

Wow, thanks for the responses guys! Yes, I have also been following the 'esoteric self defense' thread with interest, seeing how that has developed before reviving this thread.

I like Eliyahu's idea of inner silence to repel these entities, this makes sense as they seemingly like to prey on negative energies, so if you are emitting a beacon of inner calm and silence, that make you quite an unappetising meal!

I also agree entirely with Blue Lunar that this is something that really needs much more attention than it is currently given. I know there is a small section in the Wiki about dealing with such entities, but I think as a community we can develop and improve on this information.

The times I have come into contact with 'negative entities' on my smoked journeys I just had to sit it out, try to meditate and not become completely engulfed by negativity and panic, but it slams so hard and is so bewildering that it is hard to do anything except buckle up and ride it out. I wonder what (if any) psychic and spiritual trauma these kinds of experiences cause? I know that for me there is certainly increased anxiety regarding going back.

mrwiggle - I do plan on taking it slowly, I know enough about DMT to respect its awesome power, and while I was once the type to just dive in head first and deal with the consequences later, I am glad to say that I am older and wiser. The comment about BREATHING and THANK YOU is very interesting, breathing is something I am good at the thank you part while my being is in a state of utter disarray and terror on the other hand, is something I have not yet got to grips with. How can one be thankful in such a situation?!

Eli - with regards to Caapi being a protective spirit, does this also apply for extracts? As this is what I plan on using. I do have about 50g or red vine and 50g of white vine, which I am considering combining so that i can experiment with dosing. maybe I will brew them separately so I can compare and contrast...

Tele - My GF is my babysitter during these types of excursions, but there isn't really much I think she would be able to do if, for instance I was to become posessed :twisted:

So, let's get to work on a guide to "Hyperspace Jiu Jitsu"! I am sure we can find ways of defending and even defeating those that are bigger, stronger and wiser than us. I believe this is a big step in the cosmic game. We have enough experience between us to make a collection of techniques that can be applied without a $99 pricetag.

 

[polytrip]

Too bad that you don´t have acces to good quality caapi-vine at the moment. I don´t know if entity´s are real or not, but i do know that the 'caapi-spirit', if you could call it that way, has a benign, maternal character. If indeed there would be things like demons, i think she will protect you like a mother would protect her own childeren. If you´re still not entirely comfortable with it: i know that shamans use all kinds of tools to offer protection as well. There are some special plantseeds called 'boldo', that are said to offer protection against evil spirit. They are absolutely not edible and very toxic, though. Shamans use it as a sort of talisman. I believe that dreamcatchers are also believed to have some protective powers when you make one yourself. In that case you have to attach something onto it that you feel, belongs to you. Whether they realy work or not, i don´t know, but they look nice anyway and making one is probably fun to do as well.

 

[Korey]

"It is only safe to participate in an ayahuasca-ceremony which is guided by a full trained shaman. There are so many self-made shamans at the moment (mostly westerners). I have been in most of their ceremonies and not one of them is spiritually safe."

What?

What a ridiculous comment, cannot believe some people read this and eat it up.

 

[christian]

"It is only safe to participate in an ayahuasca-ceremony which is guided by a full trained shaman. There are so many self-made shamans at the moment (mostly westerners). I have been in most of their ceremonies and not one of them is spiritually safe."

I did however find the mention that taking hard drugs can leave one open to attack. I think there might be some truth to this. Even if in a weakened body's defence state which is all kinda connected.

 

[Korey]

What is a "hard drug?"

Yes I agree, but I think you're open to attack from your own psyche, not some external spirits or demons. There's a few threads here where people talk about being punished during DMT experiences for drug use, the most common one being alcohol. I really think these experiences may stem from an individuals own perceptions about the drugs they are using and of course their shame for using said drugs.

Why must first an individual metabolize another drug before these spirits or demons make themselves aware and confront the problem at hand? Doesn't make too much sense, especially if hyperspace is the ultimate metaphysical reality and truth many people regard it as.

 

[mrwiggle]

How can one be thankful in such a situation?!

thank you is one of the most powerful things i have found.
i cant excactly say how one finds gratitude for negative seeming experiences but for me it ussually starts out as a fanatical unthinking repeating of thank you thank you thank you until a beacon of light shines through the mists. i have found that many if not most things in life tend to be the opposite of what they seem, and things that are painfull to go through are often the most valuable experiences/ lessons, so maybe with that in mind you could be thankful for being blessed with this hard experience, you can be thankful that you have the strength to make it through such a hard experience, you can be thankful that you induced this state on your self while your physical being is otherwise in a safe environment and that you did not have to learn these lessons by being born into a physical environment that imposes such hard lessons on you. plus by being thankful for the experience you are more able to embrace the pain of it and in so doing dispel its power over you...one could also say that the underlying concept at work has to do with this being a universe of vibration and like attracts like so when you put that vibration of thank you out there it attracts more reasons for you to be thankful so maybe if you dont see how you could be thankful for such a situation, that is all the more reason to put it out there so you can find out why!

 

[Eliyahu]

Purges wrote:

Eli - with regards to Caapi being a protective spirit, does this also apply for extracts? As this is what I plan on using. I do have about 50g or red vine and 50g of white vine, which I am considering combining so that i can experiment with dosing. maybe I will brew them separately so I can compare and contrast...

Caapi extract still seems to work for sure...I have noticed diminished protection with just harmine by itself however.

 

[scudge]

It seems for drinking aya simply asking for the Mother, Father, and Serpeant to consume you entirely is enough you will need for anything. They'll cradle you as If you are a baby.

 

[Zanexx]

I think you're open to attack from your own psyche

I agree completely.

My spiritual teacher (who has used ayahuasca in ceremonies) once told me that all one needs to do to dispel an entity is tell it too leave. The logic there is, as a being of this universe it must abide by one's freewill. I have had entities in my aura before, and have expelled them using my free will. (The trick here is to identify it)

My personal understanding is a bit deeper than that. Let me try explain...

I am a bit undecided here, an entity could be a part of one's psyche, (that the entity is only a thought pattern, conditioning, old emotions etc. ), or it is something separate to us that is feeding off of one's psyche. (To rephrase - either the "entity" is a part of us, our own creation, or it is not our own creation but feeds off of a part of us)
Either way, by telling "it" to leave, we are riding ourselves of those parts (that is either the entity, or the entity's food), effectively removing the entity.

Ok so I have just realised there are a few other pieces in my subconscious to this. Will be back when I have had a chance to figure out my own opinions. lol. (and thanks to everyone that has posted here, for you have helped me)

On an unrelated side note:

you are more able to embrace the pain of it and in so doing dispel its power over you

I have recently found this with physical pain. Instead of "resisting" it ("This hurts"), I embrace it (I think: "This is an interesting sensation I am experiencing") with great results.

 

[Eliyahu]

Zanexx Wrote:

My spiritual teacher (who has used ayahuasca in ceremonies) once told me that all one needs to do to dispel an entity is tell it too leave. The logic there is, as a being of this universe it must abide by one's freewill. I have had entities in my aura before, and have expelled them using my free will. (The trick here is to identify it)...........

.......Either way, by telling "it" to leave, we are riding ourselves of those parts (that is either the entity, or the entity's food), effectively removing the entity.

-This never worked for me, but that does not mean it won't work for someone else