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Trying to improve Acacia information

Migrated topic.
..so much coming in..:) ..i'm going to try and sit back for a little while and watch the thread grow..😉

my most important point to this whole thread, other than the ancient spiritual significance of the Acacia,
is: be kind to trees..
pruning a branch or just a few twigs is the friendly thing to do if taking from these compassionate teachers..
care for their offspring..and grow sustainable and connected..
..................

just a quick wrap-up of kiang's euro-acacia ID, which i agree with..the photo of the pods satisfies the criteria for A. melanoxylon..colonising europe from the bush., with its secrets..:)
........................................

last up, for botanic frontiers acacia-heads, pictured below is the Galapagos Islands endemic, Acacia rorudiana (Christoph.), named in 2010..
back soon..stay well acacians, and peace unto all of you..
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ok, so went walking today and came across what appears to be the strain of acacia melanoxyn that was prevalent around the yarra ranges though slightly less gloss to the phyllodes I thought.. I was told by an aboriginal man that this form was "highly active". Active or not, this ones a beauty - the vein patterns in the phyllodes are to me an embodiment of the divine.. there was just something about this tree that really spoke to me and stuck out from the other acacias today... the phyllodes were very bitter - and almost had an aftertaste of sunscreen. found mushrooms growing around the base of heaps of acacias today too

there were lots of trees around so I pruned some foliage... probably around 300-400g phyllodes.. will weigh tonight and test after I process the assumed mucronata material (finally).. on the note of mucronata, nen I would appreciate if you could look at my photos in the identification thread for i.d - it looks very mucronata - erect phyllodes, very stiff and quite sharp.. though it grows more prostrate and the phyllodes have no basal gland. I am getting a strong feeling that other trees in the area are hybridising with floribunda and inheriting is "no basal gland gene" .. this would explain why there have been a number of species that look distinctly differen't to floribunda but have no basal gland.. as floribunda is everywhere around here

photos of the majestic melanoxyn below and more photos here:

EDIT - i was also looking over kiangs mystery melanoxyn-like tree and noticed they looked quite similar
 

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yeah its a highly variable species I've seen many forms now in victoria.... in that forest I took those photos there was huge variation in the phyllode size. generally this strain seems to have wider phyllodes with a sort of "twist" about them though and the vein patterns are a little harder to miss
 
..a number botanists consider A. melanoxylon to have at least two sub-species..
there are probably more genetic variants..the narrow-phyllode warmer climate strains are in generally the 'in-active' ones..the +ve from nsw had slightly broader phyllodes..

there really aren't any other candidates for kiang's tree (based on pods, phyllodes and european growing records)
..the other twisted pod species like A. aulococarpa have noticeably wider pods and only grow in warmer/tropical climates..kiang's tree appears to be a victorian variety of A. melanoxylon..
oops, i'm meant to be going quiet..
.
 
Thanks for seeing through 70 pages Nen.
I found this about Acacia Melanoxylon.
This is one of the hardier members of the genus, tolerating temperatures down to about -10°c[260]. It succeeds outdoors in Britain from Dorset westwards, also in south-western Scotland and in Ireland[1, 11]. However, even in the mildest areas of the country it is liable to be cut back to the ground in excessively cold winters though it can resprout from the base[11]. It is planted for timber in south-west Europe[50].
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Acacia melanoxylon Blackwood, Australia Acacia, Black Acacia, Blackwood Acacia PFAF Plant Database

Acacia melanoxylon is an evergreen Tree growing to 30 m (98ft 5in) at a fast rate. See above for USDA hardiness. It is hardy to UK zone 8. It is in leaf all year, in flower in April. The species is hermaphrodite (has both male and female organs). It can fix Nitrogen. Suitable for: light (sandy)...
www.pfaf.org
 
acacian, your melanoxylon is just like the one I found. With some broader phyllods, twisted twigs and seedpods, just like that.

Also, the bioassay turned negative. Smoking the extract or drinking it with maoi did nothing. Sorry to disappoint. I think I know what went wrong at the extraction.. When I added Sodium Carbonte to the acidified extract, I put the wet mushy mixture in the oven to dry more rapidly. For sure that I lost alot of spice that way because of the temperature. In the end I was left with a poor product, more Sodium Carbonate than goodies, also because of a poor ethanol wash..

What intrigues me is the smell and the crystal formations of the acacia extracts that it did indeed! Just like the MHRB extract I did (turned to be also a poor final product). So it must have something to it. Have to try again someday..
 
hey kiang..dissapointing to hear it wasn't dmt.. it is also highly likely that the tree didn't have dmt in it anyways as most people don't get anything from melanoxyn. did you feel any effects from the extract at all?

i am going to start the extraction of the assumed mucronata.. I am still a little unsure about i.d as it has no basal gland. there are a lot of floribunda in the area I wonder whether they have hybridised
 
Hi guys, haven't posted for a while, being mum to an assortment of young humans and animals means that I can only indulge my acacia fantasies every so often! (I have a few baby acacias too, but we have had heartbreaking incidents with cows, dogs and whipper snippers, so now i have to keep them all in cages) :cry:

Anyway this brings me to my current problem.. My friend has two started experimental extractions which have fallen by the wayside, (one A. retinodes and one suspected A.floribunda). The phyllodes and twigs have been sitting in a vinegar/water/metho mix for maybe 6 weeks... does anyone know if it would still be worth continuing or would the alkaloids have degraded?
A.Rubida is the next to be tested on my friends list, it has been calling her.
 
Acacia subliminata said:
The phyllodes and twigs have been sitting in a vinegar/water/metho mix for maybe 6 weeks... does anyone know if it would still be worth continuing or would the alkaloids have degraded?
A.Rubida is the next to be tested on my friends list, it has been calling her.
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I don't think it is a problem at all. From what little I know, DMT in salt form (acid solution) is very stable. In the freebase form (alcaline solution) it is not so stable..
 
kiang wrote:
Also, the bioassay turned negative. Smoking the extract or drinking it with maoi did nothing. Sorry to disappoint. I think I know what went wrong at the extraction.. When I added Sodium Carbonte to the acidified extract, I put the wet mushy mixture in the oven to dry more rapidly. For sure that I lost alot of spice that way because of the temperature. In the end I was left with a poor product, more Sodium Carbonate than goodies, also because of a poor ethanol wash..

What intrigues me is the smell and the crystal formations of the acacia extracts that it did indeed! Just like the MHRB extract I did (turned to be also a poor final product). So it must have something to it. Have to try again someday..
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..hmm..hard to reach a final conclusion on this one..
certainly the few occasions A. melanoxylon did have alkaloids they were 'active'..
also, what about the A. retinodes? if they extracts had the same smell as mhrb then there should at least be nmt in there..
perhaps sodium carbonate has something to do with this..
a recent thread Inactive crystals, (STB) extraction question - Introduction Essay - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus wrote:
I recently did a straight-to-base extraction (mimosa hostilis with lye and water, siphoned off the naptha layer and washed with sodium carbonate) and I have a dry crystalline white product. However, it shows no effect. Crystal purity honestly looks fairly respectable (by eye). Is this possible? I don't understand what could have gone wrong. Can any one give a word of advice?
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anyhow, thanks for your experimentation..

now, i'm going to concentrate on the spiritual and eco-connection aspects of acacias in the thread when i do post..
 
..it's the joy of discovery of trees (and plants generally) that i find leads to a life-path, sustainable way of working in these realms..rarely have i come across any 'dmt' that wasn't from some kind of tree or shrub..even if the desired outcome is illusive, the quest is instructive..
and for those in the colder climates, i think the grasses are there to play this role..
a relationship of honouring the trees is an ancient path..it's a connected path..
the old ways are just as relevant today..nature observing itself..
3802634857_6de4048e6f_z.jpg
 
So recently finished the extraction of the suspected mucro (i actually suspect this one may be a hybrid with floribunda as it had no basal gland and was found growing fairly close to other floribunda, though it had more spiky erect phyllodes)..

200g phyllodes were simmered on low heat for an hour four times and the twigs were boiled in a separate pot and the water combined with the phyllode boils. the boils were all reduced to 500ml and based with 5g lye.. a toluene pull was done and then another 10g of lye was added and pulled again with toluene. after evap I was left with about 200mg of yellowy brown goo.

I am unsure what is in the extract, but it is most definitely active and it is not subtle in effects by any means (headspace-wise)... I've smoked it a few times now and the onset is very quick.. it tastes sort of bitter but there also seems to be a slight rubbery taste in there (maybe traces of dmt?). the headspace is very trancy and colours become more vibrant. patterns and flowing energy can be "felt" when trancing out, though the visual element of them is fairly subtle

the effects last around half an hr to 45 minutes before wearing off. I'm hesitant to speculate on what may be in the extract but it is probably one of the stronger non dmt extracts I've tried in terms of "feeling" (visually not so much though I'm yet to try a larger dose.. so far been doing roughly 30mg doses)

Tomorrow I plan on heading out to revisit the trees I originally got the dmt extract from .. the one I just tested was defiintely differen't to the original mucronata that was tested.. the phyllodes are slightly broader and the trees grow more prostrate compared to the others

next on the list is the melanoxyn i posted above.. i gathered some phyllodes which i'm grinding at the moment.

Also, I have been getting a very similar yellowy oil from a lot of my extracts lately which smells the same with pretty much all the julifloreae i've been testing.. i wonder whether it is either something produced after rain or in certain soil conditions around the area? most of my extracts lately have been active in some way or another so I am in doubt as to whether it would just be plant oils.. any ideas?
 

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^..thanks for that interesting report acacian..glad to finally hear about the suspected mucronata..
it's actually quite a vaguely defined species, botanically speaking..

as for the effects (and based on past mucronata tests/experience) ..sounds like a fair amount of NMT, probably some betacarbolines, probably a little dmt, and maybe some of the mysterious more obscure tryptamines that have turned up in the species..certainly the bioassay of the virtually no dmt sample (tested by endlessness, see Acacia Analysis Thread) was deep..

..as i've said before, the phytochemical gifts of the genus are broader and (to me) potentially more interesting than simply dmt, even if not as 'spectacular'..

the possibilities for healing and therapeutic use of other tryptamines have enormous potential..


..on a side-note, stand by for the oral tradition soon..somewhere near 'you' perhaps..;)
 
hey guys,

the Mocro X Flori's that i have produce a long lasting mild trip to hyper space that lasts about 45min-1hr. it is no were near as intense the Phlebo extract but does what about a 5 gram
dry weight mushy trip does without the upset stomach.

my current quest is to find a triptamin that is orally effective at low doses of <200mg without taking an Maoi and can be extracted from an Acacia. any ideas

Like my D extracts i might wait for summer as they seem more potent then.
 
By the way i have stumbled across an efficient source of the Acacia's with that straight to the point flower arrangement, one of the guys in my tribe works with his brother at the local transfer station(fancy tip) and all cuttings with a particular type of flower have been put aside for yours truly. thus far have not had the chance top process any so all goosd
with my mission i may need some help to ID some of the cuttings so i can find that perfect chem:love: :x
 
I think the variability of floribunda may be underestimated by a lot of people. I've seen a lot of different specimens over the years and the phyllode length, width and habit (such as stiffish and erect vs more pliable and pendulous) varies a lot, though now that I'm paying more attention I have some more observing to do to figure out to what extent these differences are merely associated with different stages of growth, and which are down to variant subtypes within the species. Certainly seedlings or young trees seem to have longer, erect phyllodes but the more you get to know both floribunda and mucronata ssp. longifolia it's hard to mistake the phyllodes of the two despite the initial similarity. (Other ssp. of mucronata I'm much less familiar with first-hand.) Sometimes they can look a bit maidenii-like (more like 'mini maidenii' in appearance), but I have doubts that what was supposed to be a maidenii-floribunda hybrid (some pages back) was anything but floribunda within its usual range of variation. Bark isn't consistent either - some old trees of floribunda have a rough, fissured layer of outer bark on the trunk, whereas others are more or less smooth. Whichever way you look at it, presence of sparse appressed hairs all going more or less the same direction (towards the tip) and lack of a gland are the best ways to be sure you're looking at floribunda. Note that even with species that have glands, you will sometimes find a few phyllodes that seem to be lacking in one, or have one not quite where it usually would be. If anyone does have a genuine floribunda hybrid with known parents, I would love to know its characteristics.
 
yeah this has been my observation with floribunda too, wira. the genetic variability even within small areas can be huge and I would consider it by no means a consistent tree for alkaloids either. I have tested over 20 different trees down here all with various genetic differences and have yet to find one with consistent dmt (all except one but the second time around yielded differen't alkaloids and seemed devoid of dmt).

Recently up in NSW I observed a very interesting form of floribunda which I initially thought may have been maidenii, though on closer inspection there was no basal gland, small white hairs on phyllodes, soft papery texture, abundancy of flower rods and hairs on the stems. It grew very close to two other forms of floribunda.. one with very narrow and slightly greyer (due to more white hairs) looking phyllodes.. the other with shorter and broader phyllodes. I managed to get some photos but I'll have to get my friend to email them to me. in my eyes, floribunda is just as much "variable sallow wattle" as mucronata.. this probably has a lot to do with being so widely propagated. I would like to know what the active floribunda looks like

also, and this may have something to do with pruning - but I've noticed the trees in more built up urban areas are often more prostrate and have much rougher trunk bark, whereas wild growing trees tend to grow much higher and more "tree-like" with a smooth trunk
 
morgatrom, hi and welcome..regarding your question see oral activity in the thread index..this is a very 'new' field of research..
wira wrote: (& hi btw, sorry haven't had a chance to chat for a while..)
I think the variability of floribunda may be underestimated by a lot of people. I've seen a lot of different specimens over the years and the phyllode length, width and habit (such as stiffish and erect vs more pliable and pendulous) varies a lot, though now that I'm paying more attention I have some more observing to do to figure out to what extent these differences are merely associated with different stages of growth, and which are down to variant subtypes within the species.
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acacian wrote:
yeah this has been my observation with floribunda too, wira. the genetic variability even within small areas can be huge and I would consider it by no means a consistent tree for alkaloids either.
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..this is consistent with the fact that many species are polyploid..[see Genetics and Sex p10]
this is assumed to allow rapid adaptation to changing conditions, hence a higher survival rate..one strain of Acacia nilotica is hexadecaploid (16 sets of chromosomes) ..see p60 here..
i should also point out that Acacia obtusifolia is by no means consistent, except at the 'type' area, and can often yield almost no dmt, or a cocktail of odd alkaloids..and is known to hybridise with A. sophorae (longifolia), A. maidenii and other species..
..selective breeding with seedstock would be the means to achieve 'consistency' in such speceis..though i philosophically am happy with whatever nature chooses to show me, or not..as i've said before, dmt is not my primary focus..it's the plant (teachers) themselves..
.
 
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