Vaporhuasca

[Panpsychic]

Thanks - I can confirm that eating amounts of 0.5g or less appears to have had no noticeable adverse effect so far - but I might revert to spitting the seeds out just to be on the safe side! A caveat would be that I'd struggle to separate any adverse effect from a couple of other obviously suboptimal things I do, namely staying up way too late and overuse of a mobile device. This is the price I pay for helping to look after this place!

My sweet spot for strong effects with tea made from good seeds was 2.8g, found after a month of fine-tuning experiments. This corresponds to 40mg/kg.

If you have no adverse effects from eating less than 0.5 grams then I don’t see any reason to change your routine to eat them after chewing and quidding, since you will get some additional effects from ingestion and Rue in general has a host of beneficial health properties, it's just that the seeds themselves do contain some toxins I believe so its about the quantity you consume.

I was speaking in reference to the larger psychoactive doses for tripping, since I regularly chew and hold sublingually for a few mins then eat about 5 seeds nightly, based on @starway7 observation in an old thread about using it as a dream facilitator or oneirogen which is very effective. This miniscule amount of seeds is enough to provoke strong dreams and also cleans teeth and mouth hygiene due to the Rue's medical properties.

 

[Transform]

If you have no adverse effects from eating less than 0.5 grams then I don’t see any reason to change your routine to eat them after chewing and quidding, since you will get some additional effects from ingestion and Rue in general has a host of beneficial health properties, it's just that the seeds themselves do contain some toxins I believe so its about the quantity you consume.

I was speaking in reference to the larger psychoactive doses for tripping, since I regularly chew and hold sublingually for a few mins then eat about 5 seeds nightly, based on @starway7 observation in an old thread about using it as a dream facilitator or oneirogen which is very effective. This miniscule amount of seeds is enough to provoke strong dreams and also cleans teeth and mouth hygiene due to the Rue's medical properties.

That's the exact rationale I've been following, and in balance the benefit to my current spiritual practice (such as it may be) is the overwhelming factor influencing the continuation of my working with this intriguing plant ally.

As far as minuscule amounts go, and props to @dithyramb for pointing this one out, the β-carboline plant sea buckthorn has its best effects at the tiniest doses too.

 

[rigpalight]

Well, @psychonuaghty mentioned using 0.4g which I think is a good guideline for "a large pinch". That's about the amount that fits between my thumb and first two fingers, but many people have bigger fingers than me! This kind of natural measure in this instance appears to work quite well in establishing a sensible upper limit to the dose size.

When it comes to harmalas, many including myself have found it useful to accustom ourselves to them by starting with a tiny dose and slowly working up to an optimal level. I'm not alone in having tried this with daily harmala brews over the course of a month, along with having spent several preceding months of less frequent use as a more general familiarisation process.

My earliest forays were years before, with very occasional attempts at simply learning to stomach the rather unpalatable seeds. Brews of raw rue seed have a distinct odour of wet dog, if you ask me - but quidded seeds are almost chocolatey to me now, just as long as I don't chew them too much!

I tried the 0.4 grinding the seeds very well then putting them under my tongue for 25min, no swallowing of saliva at all then spitting the whole thing out, the effects were very mild relaxation and slept deeply .... the second day same thing but this time I vaped a very small amount of DMT just before sleeping I was in the waiting room for a much longer period I felt some nausea but there were some energies working on my heart space and the time was longer and I fell asleep ... I want to experiment doing this today during the day and NOT before going to sleep.

I was wondering can I also do the same thing with extracted Freebase harmalas ?? what would be the amount ?? maybe 0.1?? i think with freebase they will dissolve fully under my tongue

 

[rigpalight]

Eating seeds is a no no. Quidding or sublingual with seeds seems a good compromise although the bitterness will come out if you chew them which would be necessary to release more of the harmalas and they still then need to be held in cheek for 20 mins after that.

Drinking the tea with actual hot chocolate, oatmilk or with any flavoured soft drink is not too much noticeable, as well as still being the means of ingesting harmalas with strongest effect.

for the tea I just want to double check please ... lets say I am going to prepare only 2.5 grams so I grind the seeds then boil them for 15 min on low heat then drain the water and put aside and repeat the boiling for 2 times more each 15 min with fresh water and add all the water together and drink ?

 

[Transform]

for the tea I just want to double check please ... lets say I am going to prepare only 2.5 grams so I grind the seeds then boil them for 15 min on low heat then drain the water and put aside and repeat the boiling for 2 times more each 15 min with fresh water and add all the water together and drink ?

It depends on your way of looking at it, but your outlined method is a good enough place to start. In the long run it may pan out that you value minimising preparation time - and the associated cost of heating water - over what has been, up to this point, the low price of the seeds. Having worked on fine-tuning dosage for weeks on end, I got somewhat tired of waiting for the brews (and also the cloudiness of ground seed brews in particular) and resorted to one short boil on a larger amount of seeds (~3.5g or more). The half-spent seeds from three single boils can be saved up and boiled again - but they must be either dried out rapidly or chilled (preferably frozen) in order to prevent mould. This especially applies during warm weather!

As another variant, between whole seeds and more or less finely ground, we have crushed or rolled seeds, of which several Nexians report
successful results.

Above all, play with the process - it helps to develop your powers of thought and reasoning.

I tried the 0.4 grinding the seeds very well then putting them under my tongue for 25min, no swallowing of saliva at all then spitting the whole thing out, the effects were very mild relaxation and slept deeply .... the second day same thing but this time I vaped a very small amount of DMT just before sleeping I was in the waiting room for a much longer period I felt some nausea but there were some energies working on my heart space and the time was longer and I fell asleep ... I want to experiment doing this today during the day and NOT before going to sleep.

I was wondering can I also do the same thing with extracted Freebase harmalas ?? what would be the amount ?? maybe 0.1?? i think with freebase they will dissolve fully under my tongue

For sublingual harmalas you can use a far smaller amount - 30mg is the usual ballpark figure. This is because harmalas have a much higher availability sublingually but the smaller amount also means the effects do not last as long as a larger, oral dose.

Looking at the arithmetic, 7% of 400mg equates to 28mg based on the optimum alkaloid content for the suggested amount of seeds, rounded for convenience.

 

[Panpsychic]

for the tea I just want to double check please ... lets say I am going to prepare only 2.5 grams so I grind the seeds then boil them for 15 min on low heat then drain the water and put aside and repeat the boiling for 2 times more each 15 min with fresh water and add all the water together and drink ?

Yes this is the correct method but as has been mentioned you may as well ground down and boil a larger amount of seeds at once. Usually I do about 30g so enough for 10 doses of a 3g tea each time, then reduce it down and save the remaining for future doses by putting it in the fridge.

It doesnt keep indefinitely but I would say it will be fine in the fridge for a good 2-3 months or so, I have had no issues with it. This can perhaps be tested more precisly to see how long refrigerated rue tea keeps before the mould forms, but remember that is has natural anti-fungal and anti-viral effects which likely inhibits this for some time also.

Also there is no need to waste it, if you dont feel like using it all for smoked Somahuasca sessions, plenty of people drink rue tea for health reasons anyway and mental clarity.

 

[Panpsychic]

I tried the 0.4 grinding the seeds very well then putting them under my tongue for 25min, no swallowing of saliva at all then spitting the whole thing out, the effects were very mild relaxation and slept deeply .... the second day same thing but this time I vaped a very small amount of DMT just before sleeping I was in the waiting room for a much longer period I felt some nausea but there were some energies working on my heart space and the time was longer and I fell asleep ... I want to experiment doing this today during the day and NOT before going to sleep.

I want to also emphasize, the effects are not the same as straight freebase DMT. They are qualitatively different in combination and as such, terms like 'breakthrough' etc may not always be appropriate. I think that it's worth treating this as something separate in its own right.

My peak experiences thus far with this, and I really dont like to use 'religious' type terminology but it was less about 'breakthroughs' and elves or jesters- and more about realizing our true destiny; which is that ultimately when all is said and done and our work here and in however many future lives is completed, We Will Be One with Forever, One with the Eternal Glory of God.

This combo has shown me this without any possibility of the shadow of doubt that it can be otherwise.

I fully resonate with why traditionally the DMT is considered The Light and the Harmalas are The Force.

 

[yatyas314]

I will give this a try and report back!

 

[hypertestudo]

Rue tea is easy to make.
Get some rue seeds, about 3g = 1 dose, and what you can pinch between your thumb and two fingers is roughly a gram. Then grind up say 30 grams (10 doses) with a pestle and mortar (or coffee grinder) until some of it is powdered, though much of the seeds will still be intact which is fine.

Boil the seeds in water, and you will get a yellow/brown liquid. Strain the seeds and remove the liquid then repeat two more boils, each about 15-20 mins. Then discard the seed sediments.

How much water to use for each boil of 30g of powdered/ground rue seeds?

 

[Varallo]

How much water to use for each boil of 30g of powdered/ground rue seeds?

Just find an practical amount, I would say that you want to end up with an volume that fits an bottle, an plastic bottle so you can freeze it in between your trips.

 

[Animistic]

I usually do 2:1 volume water:herb for teas per pull. No need to boil it strongly (though also fine to do so), 0.5-1hr simmer. Repeat 3-4 times, reduce. Boom, tea is ready to go. I've also not found any need to freeze it if it is sufficiently reduced (say 30-40ml per serve), fridge will be sufficient.

Don't grind them, keep them whole. You don't want to mess with all the sludge that comes from grinding them and just makes the tea more nauseating.

 

[Varallo]

I usually do 2:1 volume water:herb for teas per pull. No need to boil it strongly (though also fine to do so), 0.5-1hr simmer. Repeat 3-4 times, reduce. Boom, tea is ready to go. I've also not found any need to freeze it if it is sufficiently reduced (say 30-40ml per serve), fridge will be sufficient.

Don't grind them, keep them whole. You don't want to mess with all the sludge that comes from grinding them and just makes the tea more nauseating.

I always thought that because ayahuasca has natural tannins that help preserve it, it lasts longer, especially if refrigerated, and that’s why you don’t need to freeze it. Rue tea lacks those tannins, so it spoils faster. To extend its shelf life, I would at least lower the pH below 4 with lemon juice or vinegar, if freezing is not an option.

I’m not an expert on this, I have an bottle of Aya in the fridge that is just fine even after a year, rue is not something that I would use for an tea, so I don’t have enough experience with that, but with the experience of preserving food I think it’s important to keep the pH below 4 to prevent things like botulism and other bacterial problems.

 

[Animistic]

It's a great point re botulism. To be safe add some citric acid to your brew but I've never found it a problem in practice, though I have often in the past used vinegar or citric acid. Either way I find it to just sit there with the same, revolting taste lol. Maybe there's something else in the rue that inhibits bacterial growth?

 

[yatyas314]

Have tried this a few times, with Harmaline freebase and harmaline Hcl sublingual. also have smoked the harmaline freebase then Dmt ten minutes later. So far I prefer Vaping the harmline freebase then Dmt. The most interesting thing is that all three of these are their own separate experiences. same ingredients but different combo and ROA and three different experiences.
Y

 

[Skr9]

Have tried this a few times, with Harmaline freebase and harmaline Hcl sublingual. also have smoked the harmaline freebase then Dmt ten minutes later. So far I prefer Vaping the harmline freebase then Dmt. The most interesting thing is that all three of these are their own separate experiences. same ingredients but different combo and ROA and three different experiences.
Y

What's better in your experience? Can you tell more?

 

[yatyas314]

What's better in your experience? Can you tell more?

There is a lot there to unpack, Right now I prefer vaping harmaline freebase then adding dmt in as needed 10 minutes after. I can go for about 90 minute before I usually have had enough. The cool part is if you need more its right there and you could go another 90 minutes.
The most powerful was the sublingual harmaline HCL @56 mg took one hit ~30 minutes later and blew my socks off with how powerful just one hit was. Powerful enough to wait another hour before trying again.
Harmaline freebase sublingual @ 50 mg and dmt ~ 45 minutes was long and fruitful I had OEV and CEV that matched it was like interdimensional as if my eyelids were just filters.... All very different in the body load vs visuals.
Biggest take away I had is that they are all different and have their utility and place in my toolbox.
Y

 

[blig-blug]

Maybe there's something else in the rue that inhibits bacterial growth?

Both harmine and harmaline have antibacterial effects.

By the way, about the supposed toxic compounds in rue seeds: there are none. At some point people were saying that vasicine and vasicinone were toxic, but that's not true, and in fact they have antioxidant and other health-promoting properties. The notion of them being toxic could have originated from the fact that they're uterotonic, and thus unadvisable for pregnant women.

I recommend the book Harmal: the genus Peganum for comprehensive information about the substances present in rue and their effects. I won't share any files here due to copyright, but it can easily be found on Anna's Archive if you don't want to buy it.