What colour of Caapi? And can you make an alcohol extract from it?

[TransistorBass]

What the title says.........

If I was to get some Caapi which colour is best / do they all have differences?

Is it possible to make a Tincture extract from it rather than processing into an Ayahuasca brew?

Thanks

 

[northape]

Cielo or sky ayahuasca is supposedly good for beginners, but I doubt that without any experience one can see any difference between them.
If I remember correctly, harmala alkaloids dissolve poorly in alcohol, so you would have a better result making a brew or doing an extraction.

The bigger question is, why use ayahuasca at all? It is a heavy-duty plant that will move a lot of stuff in your psyche and life if you give it a chance. Syrian Rue is much more straightforward and safer for a Western psyche. Although some people use aya for years without even getting what it is all about, imo. Everyone is free to do what they want, but I have strong opinions about Caapi after doing some work with it. This plant requires space and dedication; otherwise, it can backfire or you will get a dud. I guess one's level of immersion is proportional to the approach. Maybe do an extraction and create a changa blend with it. At least that is a modern route with a clear intent behind it.

 

[taita]

Pharmacologically I'm not sure how much difference there is between the various colors, although I've heard it said that black is strongest. But I would echo Northape about yellow or Cielo/sky ayahuasca being the recommended place to start. Many shamans/taitas will only work with Sky ayahuasca, saying that black Ayahuasca is for dark magic and sorcery, while Sky ayahuasca is for healing and learning. Take this with as big a grain of salt as you like, but that is what I have heard said.

While I don't have any experience of rue, I would also echo what Northape says about ayahuasca being an intense emotional (and sometimes physical) purgative. More so than any other medicine I've worked with, ayahuasca churns through your shadow like no one's business. This is great if you want to face all your demons. And also understandably avoided or substituted if you don't.

 

[northape]

saying that black Ayahuasca is for dark magic and sorcery, while Sky ayahuasca is for healing and learning.

They should try rue and mimosa for dark magic. It might hit even better than black caapi with all the witchy visions mimosa can bring

Honestly, there are two ways in medicine practice: white and black magic. These plants actually test you in the beginning, and you kind of choose your direction. If it's about healing, God and Light for you, then we'll call it curanderismo, and that's your path. Any notion of self-gain based on power games leads toward the dark path.

Oh, curanderos use black vine too. How can you know darkness without meeting it head-on? Although, one does not need a black vine for it. Just being on the path of light means darkness is always here, like the unrelenting resistance that it is.

 

[taita]

Yeah I think the light/dark dichotomy is really about self in service vs serving the self

I imagine there's a way to work with any medicine with either orientation.

Sometimes visions are dark when there's darkness within. I remember being confronted with an extended run of really brutal and gory dark visions. All blood and fangs and spider legs and haunted space... I asked the medicine to take them away, but she responded, that this is inside you, this viciousness that you witness is yours. If you want it gone, you have to do something about it.

Definitely one of the more valuable healing moments I have experienced in recent years

 

[northape]

I fully agree with you. We decide how to use the tool. Our inner darkness needs to clear at some point too.
That process is a must in any real healing. We all have our shadow part, and without embracing it, there is no emotional stability.
Hopefully our back-and-forth gives @TransistorBass some inkling of what working with this medicine implies.

 

[taita]

We all have our shadow part, and without embracing it, there is no emotional stability.

Absolutely. Whatever power/capacity we have yet to manifest and claim in this life resides in the shadow. All those skeletons buried in everyone's basement, are buried with jewels and magic swords


Exhuming them is not pleasant, but taking account of your own poison, or your family line's, or humanity's, allows for actual healing and growth to occur instead of just a spiritual bypass, or worse, ego-inflation/god complex

 

[taita]

Is it possible to make a Tincture extract from it rather than processing into an Ayahuasca brew?

It should be. Afaik beta carbolines exhibit good solubility in ethanol.
I have an Elaeagnus bark tincture that exhibits beta-carboline activity, I'd imagine it would work with caapi as well

 

[TransistorBass]

Okie dokie then, I have been educated, thanks

And @taita my tincture question arises because of your Psilohuasca thread.

I did have one other question regarding Caapi, can it be ground up chipped up and used as part of a Changa Mix? I was planning on trying some Chaliponga and Charcruna leaves as additions to Changa.

 

[redbird]

I did have one other question regarding Caapi, can it be ground up chipped up and used as part of a Changa Mix? I was planning on trying some Chaliponga and Charcruna leaves as additions to Changa.

I would expect that to have a very rough smoke being primarily fiber. i've only ever seen caapi leaf used in blends not vine.
In other words, you could but i dont think you'll enjoy it

 

[TransistorBass]

I would expect that to have a very rough smoke being primarily fiber. i've only ever seen caapi leaf used in blends not vine.
In other words, you could but i dont think you'll enjoy it

Good to know, thanks

 

[new_science]

When talking about the "black" variety of caapi, keep in mind that it often refers to a different plant: Alicia anisopetala. It is sometimes intentionally mislabeled, which is another thing to consider as well.

 

[Pyramids]

I did have one other question regarding Caapi, can it be ground up chipped up and used as part of a Changa Mix? I was planning on trying some Chaliponga and Charcruna leaves as additions to Changa.

I think you saw the caapi tincture thread i started...
I have used a previous/simpler tincture process to add to my changa (using black caapi). The changa is amaaaaazing. That previous tincture batch i used was pretty weak, so it didn't extend the experience in terms of time. It is closer to a pure dmt experience but with a very crystal clear filter of ayahuasca. Absolutely wild experience with crazy vibrations. But, as soon as my new batch of freebase finishes up, I'm going to start my next batch of changa using my latest tincture process, which I feel will be more effective in extending the trip duration. I may also, as is my intention with the next tincture I make, fortify it with some extracted rue alks....

anyway, I've been somewhat obsessed with answering both of these questions lately and feel i'm getting somewhere rather exciting, hope that's of some help.

 

[Transform]

I would expect that to have a very rough smoke being primarily fiber. i've only ever seen caapi leaf used in blends not vine.
In other words, you could but i dont think you'll enjoy it

I dimly recollect a report somewhere in the ethnopharmacologic literature of caapi bark shavings being smoked. Whether this was separate from the Mckenna brothers' tale of combining such a method with their mushroom experiment at La Chorrera, in "True Hallucinations", escapes me at present.

 

[TransistorBass]

I think you saw the caapi tincture thread i started...
I have used a previous/simpler tincture process to add to my changa (using black caapi). The changa is amaaaaazing. That previous tincture batch i used was pretty weak, so it didn't extend the experience in terms of time. It is closer to a pure dmt experience but with a very crystal clear filter of ayahuasca. Absolutely wild experience with crazy vibrations. But, as soon as my new batch of freebase finishes up, I'm going to start my next batch of changa using my latest tincture process, which I feel will be more effective in extending the trip duration. I may also, as is my intention with the next tincture I make, fortify it with some extracted rue alks....

anyway, I've been somewhat obsessed with answering both of these questions lately and feel i'm getting somewhere rather exciting, hope that's of some help.

I'm watching with interest.