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What psychedelic is most likely to cause bad trips?

Migrated topic.
In the other poll, What psychedelic is less likely to cause bad trips?, so far no one voted for LSD being least likely to cause a bad trip.

In that poll Oral Mushrooms (or psilocybin/psilocin), Oral Mescaline (or cacti) and Smoked DMT were voted least likely to cause a bad trip. NO ONE VOTED FOR LSD.

If you take the two polls and put their results together, LSD comes out in front of mushrooms for being most likely to cause a bad trip because mushrooms got 2 votes as being least likely to cause a bad trip, and LSD got none at all.

I made the two polls so we could get a more accurate picture. As you can see, LSD is the big daddy of bad trips. So far it got no votes for being least likely to cause a bad trip, and the most votes in this poll as most likely to cause a bad trip.

The poll is not over. More votes could be in. The results could change.
 
It all depends on the individual and their set and setting. The substance does not matter that much. There may be some substances that are easier to handle for beginners as they do not last long (DMT) or if a low dose is taken are not very intense (2c-I). The dose level is very important as well.
SWIM does think that LSd is more prone to bad experiences because it is a very psychological experience. But again any compound can induce a bad experience in certain people.

SWIM has only ever had a bad trip on LSD when he was young, he may have an uncomfortable experience every once and a while now a days, but because he now knows that no matter what he will come down he would never freak out as he did on LSD. Thus no matter how strange it may get he knows to just relax and let go. Resisting is what gets you into trouble. Always know that no matter what you will be back to normal in a short while and it won't be so bad.
 
You can't really compare the two surveys like that 69Ron... people are voting just once for the LEAST and the MOST likely, not grading every one in order. I do think these are very interesting polls.

As for what a 'bad trip' is, a rose by any other name... whatever your definition is, whether it truly is the original definition, a bad trip means whatever the people communicating thinks it means (the problem with language is that it diverges and evolves)... and most people seem to think it means when you really don't like the way the trip is going. People usually refer to loops specifically when that's what they mean.

SWIM's only done the cubensis species twice, both times in a group, and on BOTH occasions one person went mental and locked themselves in a toilet for ages! The first guy was seeing nightmare stuff and freaked out for hours in a toilet. The second guy (different occasion) emerged from the toilet naked, snot running down his red face, crying and screaming "My life is all about feelings!!!' Swim TOLD him it was a bad idea to watch Marilyn Manson while tripping! Swim himself freaked out for a little while the second time because he was sleepy but didn't know if he would exist any more if he closed his eyes... only 10 minutes of bad in the whole trip but it put him off shrooms for life. Made the acid loop look like childs play. Maybe you and your friends just don't eat enough? The second time we all ate way too much... SWIM was an impatient kid and got his amounts wrong oops!

Yes that's often true bufoman, being passive helps a lot... but not always, sometimes you can't remember enough about the world to control your emotions!
 
ohayoco said:
You can't really compare the two surveys like that 69Ron...
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Nonsense. Mushrooms are receiving positive votes in the other thread and those cancel out the negative votes here. Sure it's not completely accurate, but neither is having a poll on this forum, because this forum is not filled with your average guy. Most here are DMT enthusiasts. Note that DMT didn't once get a negative vote. On other forums it will. I've seen people completely freak out after smoking DMT and vow never to do it again.

If you do the same poll on the other forums devoted to mushrooms you get a completely different poll result. But LSD always scores HIGH in the bad trip potential.

For the poll to be truly accurate, the poll needs to use a more random population. But even here with the DMT crowd, certain substances are clearly showing up as most likely to cause a bad trip. And that is the main point I’m proving with this poll.
 
You have a point there in that if this poll was taken on a 'I-tried-DMT-but-didn't-like-it' site, it would probably come out top... too intense for many people I expect... swim has only given it to one other person, who had done acid loads but freaked out for half of her first try and the whole of her sixth (which was her first 50mg dose) then she vowed not to do it again. Apparently she was travelling too fast and all the pixies were getting squashed against her face like flies!
 
DMT users typically have a very high level of self control during psychedelic states of mind and are probably less likely to have “bad trips”. But even in this forum, LSD is scoring very high in it’s “bad trip” potential. WHY IS THAT? WHY ALWAYS LSD? If it’s not part of LSD’s effects then why do people always vote for it that way? WHY?
 
I think that physical effects of a drug can alter it's emotional effects. The slight shortness of breath LSD causes, can work as a fear enhancer. I'm not surprised that mushrooms can cause bad trips. I think people underestimate the power of mushrooms often and when it turns out you have taken more than you're up to,your trip could go bad.
But from my experience with both LSD as shrooms i can tell, that shrooms are basically more manageable then acid, even when their effects are way stronger. There realy is some mental effect acid has, that most type of shrooms don't have. However, the effects between shrooms do vary a lot. Some type of shrooms have more mental effects than others. In my experience, this are often the weaker types of shrooms.
So i think LSD basically has more mental effects then DMT or shrooms and besides this, it has a speedy character. It is this combination that makes it more likely a trip can go wrong. With mushrooms it can only be their strength, with most types. But with acid it is these features that can make a cascade of thoughts go faster than you can keep up with and that can make anxiety turn into panic easyer than with most other substances, because of it's 'adrenaline' feeling. Thóse things combined make acid more tricky then most other popular psychedelics.
 
As powerful as ayahuasca is, as of yet it didn't get a single negative vote and got positive votes in the other thread. WHY? Because "bad trips" are primarily dependent on the compound used.

Right now in the other thread mescaline is wining as being the least likely to cause a “bad trip”.

I’m telling you, its not just set and setting. Certain psychedelics are more prone to causing bad trips.
 
69ron said:
As powerful as ayahuasca is, as of yet it didn't get a single negative vote and got positive votes in the other thread. WHY? Because "bad trips" are primarily dependent on the compound used.

Right now in the other thread mescaline is wining as being the least likely to cause a “bad trip”.

I’m telling you, its not just set and setting. Certain psychedelics are more prone to causing bad trips.
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I yhink it's the calming effect of the caapi. I bet with rue, people more often get bad trips.
 
LSD would've been SWIM's second choice because the one time he did a proper dose he got stuck in a horrible mental loop of confusion for about half and hour when he just didn't understand anything and felt like a baby. So he never did it again.

This loop was NOTHING to do with set or setting, he had been fine the rest of the time... it was purely confusion and he didn't like it and couldn't get out fast enough. I presume this is an effect that LSD can have on the brain linked to how it changes thought patterns.
 
LSD can most certainly send your thoughts off the deep end...SWIM was telling me one time that he couldnt even talk to a friend after taking 3 hits of some wonderfully clean LSD..probably one of the cleanest hes had...well him and his friend were walking down the road eating candy from bushes(raspberry and blackberries..yummm) and they just would get side tracked and keep eating berries..well..they finally got to where they were going...and so they tried to have a conversation..and neither one of them could keep up with their own thoughts long enough to spit a sentence out...it was like..as soon as SWIM said one word..and moved onto the next..he couldnt remember what the word before was....

this also reminds SWIM of a time he took the same acid and smoked dmt...he was trying to explain to his buddies around him what he was seeing...because he could see it plain as day..but everything was morphing so fast..that he couldnt find the words to describe anything
 
I did not mean to imply that the compound plays no role but also important are the set and setting. The very fact that DMT has not gotten a single vote shows that this is true, as many other psychedelic users have terrifying experiences on DMT but the people on this site (set) are able to handle it for one reason or another. and that is why they are on this site.

Some compounds may be less intense or less emotional but again set, setting and dose are likely to play a major role. A person can have a bad trip on any compound. But certain compounds may be less emotional and less demanding and thus less likely to result in panic, or a bad experience. LSD certainly seems to be more emotional (rapid thoughts) and demanding. Thus one can control the trip more with certain compounds as the effects may be less intense or demanding. Or more visual to distract the user. What I meant was that a bad trip can happen on any substance, depending on the set and setting.

In addition to the calming effects of the beta carbolines one also has to look at what type of people take ayahuasca and why? Are they looking for a spiritual experience or just to get high? This things make up the set. Furthermore expectations (set) plays a huge role. In the 60's most of what was being sold as mescaline and psilocin was actually LSD, yet people still claimed that they were all different and the effects were unique.
 
bufoman said:
I did not mean to imply that the compound plays no role but also important are the set and setting. The very fact that DMT has not gotten a single vote shows that this is true, as many other psychedelic users have terrifying experiences on DMT but the people on this site (set) are able to handle it for one reason or another. and that is why they are on this site.
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I agree the DMT results are obviously skewed, but everyone is still ganging up on LSD (as usual) and mushrooms (which is a complete surprise to me). It’s almost unanimous. As of yet only one other compound got a vote and that was 5-MeO-DMT. LSD and mushrooms are way ahead.
 
ron, you sound pretty closed minded with this discussion

different people in this forum have mentioned they think that variables such as set and setting play a huge role and that its not so easy to make a generalization. Specially from small sample surveys such as this it is hard to arrive at an established fact. And yet you call this opinion non-sense without hesitation.

I dont want to change your head, but you should be able to accept that different people think differently. Even before you stated as a FACT that mushrooms dont cause bad trips and yet the polls totally surprised you.

and whats up with these posts such as 'why is nobody voting for lsd' as causing less bad trips, as if you're poking me and enjoying im 'losing' the discussion. Except this is not about wining or losing, and I never suggested this to be a universal generalizable truth, I just said for my own experience.

Just because you think such and such substances cause more bad trips and some things may seem to indicate like your own experience, ot doesnt mean its true. Im sure you can also see that it is complex to make such generalizations when talking about effects of substances that are so intimately connected with outside influencing factors, suggestion of propaganda/opinions, etc. Im not saying that absolutely all psychedelics are the same and have no tendency, but just that how this tendency manifests itself depends on several factors and that I personally dont see lsd as inherently having a bigger 'bad trip' factor in it.

But if you dont want to agree, fine.. but please accept it is a reasonable opinion that one might have and dont shut it out just because it doesnt agree with your point of view. Differences in views should be complementary, not mutually exclusive.
 
benzyme said:
3-quinuclidinyl benzilate.
makes the tropane alkaloids seem like damiana.
LSD couldn't produce a trip that bad
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Well this is a totally different type of compound with totally different types of effects. Anti-muscarinic drugs are crazy. They can not even be compared with indole and PEA hallucinogens. They make you delirious and one may not even know they are tripping.

LSD has a variety of effects at receptor sites that other compounds lack. These additional effects may make it more of a mental, experience. Even Dennis McKenna and many others do not consider LSD a typical hallucinogen as it has so many unique effects.

Regarding bad LSD trips many people do seem to think this. It certainly has unique effects which other compounds lack. With some people (set) this type of effect may not be enjoyable, whereas in others it is.

There are some molecular sites, such as 5-HT2c which may or may not be involved in anxiety and other effects. We do not yet know the extent of which receptors do what yet. Even the 5-HT2a hypotheses is starting to be challenged. So different compounds may certainly have different propensities to cause a "bad trip" but set and setting are also very important. The term bad trip is itself a loaded term with many different meaning to different people.
 
bufoman said:
benzyme said:
3-quinuclidinyl benzilate.
makes the tropane alkaloids seem like damiana.
LSD couldn't produce a trip that bad
Click to expand...

Well this is a totally different type of compound with totally different types of effects. Anti-muscarinic drugs are crazy. They can not even be compared with indole and PEA hallucinogens. They make you delirious and one may not even know they are tripping.

LSD has a variety of effects at receptor sites that other compounds lack. These additional effects may make it more of a mental, experience. Even Dennis McKenna and many others do not consider LSD a typical hallucinogen as it has so many unique effects.

Regarding bad LSD trips many people do seem to think this. It certainly has unique effects which other compounds lack. With some people (set) this type of effect may not be enjoyable, whereas in others it is.

There are some molecular sites, such as 5-HT2c which may or may not be involved in anxiety and other effects. We do not yet know the extent of which receptors do what yet. Even the 5-HT2a hypotheses is starting to be challenged. So different compounds may certainly have different propensities to cause a "bad trip" but set and setting are also very important. The term bad trip is itself a loaded term with many different meaning to different people.
Click to expand...

I’m in 100% agreement here, with one exception. And that’s that “set and setting” are important, but only for compounds capable of the “bad trip” phenomenon. LSD doesn’t cause bad trips, but it does make them possible under certain situations. “Set and setting” are key in this regard. It’s been noted many times that mescaline very rarely ever induces “bad trips”. So while “set and setting” are important in avoiding bad trips with LSD, “set and setting” will have little effect on a mescaline trip.

The same “set and setting” that would trigger a “bad trip” under the effects of LSD for SWIM would not trigger a “bad trip” for SWIM under the effects of any other psychedelic.
 
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