Why DMT Scares Me

[s2cndchance]

I've found drugs to have such wildly different effects on people it's difficult achieve communication.

That being said. The come up before breakthrough is one of the most disgusting things I experience and force myself to experience every time I trip...

Taking a little has some pleasantries. But if one could put a percentage to breakthrough... (100 percent being "breakthrough amount" ) then the 50 percent to 99 percent mark is ever so "the bad place" to me... luckily the bad place goes away on breakthrough. But I have had the most unfortunate experience of taking enough to get to the edge and not go over that I still fear accidentally taking just enough to not quite make it.

Worse than the worst stomach bug and entirely mental...

So Idk what you're feeling but I understand some idea of having trepidation associated with it

 

[yatyas314]

What a great thread, It is so nice to know that at least there are some folks out there who share the same ideals and fears that I do. I Always trip alone, and I push the dose. in fact just the other night I have been experimenting with harmaline and THH sublingual and then adding in Vaped spice freebase. I was having a great time and I went back inside and fumbled around trying to get more in the device and said out loud"lets see if the world will dissolve". Sounded aggressive but I really wanted to push what I think I know... the humbling effect of flood doses of psilo or DMT is that you quickly realize that you know enough that you truly know nothing or at least could be wrong about it all. That is where the fear or anxiety comes from the experiences are different enough that sometimes a few hits blows your socks off an sometimes it feels like i'm taking hit after hit after hit and its just not happening all kinds of what if's come rushing into my mind then out of stubbornness or conviction I keep at it and bam I get there. I am only about 24 months into spice and 4 years into psychedelics so I have a lot to learn.

One more side note on 5-MEO, I am a veteran with some heavy combat experience and a lot of peers have gone to ibogaine retreats and have described 5-MEO as the death simulator. And that right there is the life saving mechanism at least for my community preparing yourself for war and dying to be reborn again free from the curiosity and weight of it being a real option that sadly so many have taken.

All of that being said I also want to say that this molecule has really helped me mentally take a lot of control back from ides or ways of thinking that I was trapped in.
Y

 

[Voidmatrix]

Thank you all for your contributions. I've certainly been too hard on myself with all of this. Partly due to having experienced people not understanding or being confused by my struggle. Now, if I'm being frank, they're not typically the most thoughtful, mindful, or understanding individuals and likely shouldn't do DMT or psychedelics in the way they do as it is easy to see the inflation of ego on their end.

I'm also envious and jealous of those that are able to venture into the depths with a bit more ostensive ease than myself.

However, while I've made some headway, I have a long way to go with regard to giving myself grace, and until I get to that point on my own, I will deal with the hindering self-doubt and lack of depth in my experiences. There has to be no judgment about it all.

One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

the humbling effect of flood doses of psilo or DMT is that you quickly realize that you know enough that you truly know nothing or at least could be wrong about it all.

This little insight made me reflect. I practice skepticism and what I like to call paradoxophy, and am constantly aware of what I don't know. As such, maybe the journeys that aren't so deep are of greater benefit to me, since I "already "know" what's up," by acknowledging "I know I know nothing" on a regular basis.

One love

 

[yatyas314]

This little insight made me reflect. I practice skepticism and what I like to call paradoxophy, and am constantly aware of what I don't know. As such, maybe the journeys that aren't so deep are of greater benefit to me, since I "already "know" what's up," by acknowledging "I know I know nothing" on a regular basis.

One love

Its a great way for me at least to be humbled, I have found that acknowledging that I could be wrong about everything on a regular basis keeps me very grounded. Thanks again for the great iput and thread.
Y

 

[Voidmatrix]

Its a great way for me at least to be humbled, I have found that acknowledging that I could be wrong about everything on a regular basis keeps me very grounded. Thanks again for the great iput and thread.
Y

Thank you for helping make the thread great.

Something I said in another thread is brought to mind by your statement. If no one knows everything, and no one is right all the time, then we all have beliefs that are false unbeknownst to us.

One love

 

[blig-blug]

As I see it, beliefs model aspects of reality. Models aren't reality itself, so they will never correspond 1:1 to reality and thus will always fail in one way or another. However, beliefs can model a given aspect of reality in a more or less effective way for a given purpose. So given a purpose and an aspect of reality, a set of beliefs can still be more correct and useful than another without the need to claim it to be completely true or Truth. What seems unlikely is that a set of beliefs will model every aspect of reality for every purpose better than each and any other set of beliefs.

Whether this limitation is in the nature of reality or part of the human mind (and whether there is a difference between those two) I don't have any belief on.

 

[northape]

As I see it, beliefs model aspects of reality. Models aren't reality itself, so they will never correspond 1:1 to reality and thus will always fail in one way or another. However, beliefs can model a given aspect of reality in a more or less effective way for a given purpose. So given a purpose and an aspect of reality, a set of beliefs can still be more correct and useful than another without the need to claim it to be completely true or Truth. What seems unlikely is that a set of beliefs will model every aspect of reality for every purpose better than each and any other set of beliefs.

Whether this limitation is in the nature of reality or part of the human mind (and whether there is a difference between those two) I don't have any belief on.

I'd go even further - this personal reality is just your model. We start with simple beliefs like "I am separate" and then progress to "I am this form/body."
Upon this thread of "I," we hang all other ideas and create a whole reality that we live in (what's called "karmic vision" in Buddhist terms).
What lies beyond the original "I" axiom is a mystery. It's a reality unconditioned by any ideas or models. Is it the true nature of existence? Who knows?
First, I need to get out of this model that I created. Somehow, I feel all these questions would just disappear beyond the model.

 

[yatyas314]

I'd go even further - this personal reality is just your model. We start with simple beliefs like "I am separate" and then progress to "I am this form/body."
Upon this thread of "I," we hang all other ideas and create a whole reality that we live in (what's called "karmic vision" in Buddhist terms).
What lies beyond the original "I" axiom is a mystery. It's a reality unconditioned by any ideas or models. Is it the true nature of existence? Who knows?
First, I need to get out of this model that I created. Somehow, I feel all these questions would just disappear beyond the model.

"I need to get out of this model that I created. Somehow, I feel all these questions would just disappear beyond the model." And that friend is where 5meo comes in as a death simulator and frees your mind, I suspect that they would just disappear and you or the I would be reborn.
Y

 

[northape]

"I need to get out of this model that I created. Somehow, I feel all these questions would just disappear beyond the model." And that friend is where 5meo comes in as a death simulator and frees your mind, I suspect that they would just disappear and you or the I would be reborn.
Y

The only problem here is that psychedelics don't kill the ego; they just temporarily disable it. You are in the same state every night during deep sleep. The only difference is that you have no apparent awareness of it, but in a forced psychedelic state, your awareness is mostly intact. 5-MeO-DMT and similar substances are good to get a taste, but to get free, you need to do it by your own power. Still, getting a taste of the state is good motivation for this and future lives.

That's why the first wave in the '60s and '70s went deep into spirituality. You always come down. At some point, you'll want to stay there permanently. It's not achievable by psychedelics or something as extreme as suicide. You always come down, back to Earth and human life with its problems. You need a different approach to get there for good.

Holding attention on your own awareness/being (the feeling of "I am") is one of the direct ways there.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Thread 'I Am Constantly Dying: I Am Constantly Born' I Am Constantly Dying: I Am Constantly Born

One love

 

[northape]

Thread 'I Am Constantly Dying: I Am Constantly Born' I Am Constantly Dying: I Am Constantly Born

One love

We go through the death-rebirth cycle each night, and that's what makes it so restful. We bask in the natural state in deep sleep and get recharged.
Psychedelics do what they do because self-awareness extends to these depths. However, saints say that awareness is a constant and exists even in deep sleep.
It's just that our default reference point is the ego, so we say that we saw nothing in deep sleep
So, who was it that saw nothing?

 

[doubledog]

What if this subjective feeling of fear or anxiety is just effect of the substance on some particular group of neurons, responsible for fear/anxiety?
I mean something similar to that effect of psilocybin mushrooms causing watery eyes?

 

[northape]

What if this subjective feeling of fear or anxiety is just effect of the substance on some particular group of neurons, responsible for fear/anxiety?
I mean something similar to that effect of psilocybin mushrooms causing watery eyes?

I'd agree, but it's just a side effect of a bigger process, imo. The ego doesn't want to die; it's a product of millennia of evolution made for survival.
It knows little about the temporary nature of psychedelics and considers them a threat, so fear and anxiety arise.
This is similar to the fear and anxiety about death.

 

[doubledog]

I've certainly been too hard on myself with all of this. Partly due to having experienced people not understanding or being confused by my struggle. Now, if I'm being frank, they're not typically the most thoughtful, mindful, or understanding individuals and likely shouldn't do DMT or psychedelics in the way they do as it is easy to see the inflation of ego on their end.

I'm also envious and jealous of those that are able to venture into the depths with a bit more ostensive ease than myself.

To be honest, this is strange, because imo no experienced person would have any problem to understand you. I've never met anybody experienced in psychedelics who did not experienced this fear. In fact, it's very common topic discussed amongst us.

 

[Voidmatrix]

To be honest, this is strange, because imo no experienced person would have any problem to understand you. I've never met anybody experienced in psychedelics who did not experienced this fear. In fact, it's very common topic discussed amongst us.

Thank you. You know, I felt similarly, but the pool of people doing this stuff is vast and there are some real characters out there. We get some of the most off-putting interactions with mostly heavy DMT users (not saying other kinds of individuals don't stand out as well at times).

On a personal note, I think it's fair to say I'm too impacted by the negative scopes rather than thr validating, understanding and positive ones.

One love

 

[doubledog]

I understand, we probably all have some sensitive personal topics, interwoven in our life similar to main theme of some theatrical play.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I understand, we probably all have some sensitive personal topics, interwoven in our life similar to main theme of some theatrical play.

All the more reason for me to continue mindfully not giving a f.

Thread 'Void's Journey Into Silence' Void's Journey Into Silence

One love

 

[blig-blug]

To be honest, this is strange, because imo no experienced person would have any problem to understand you. I've never met anybody experienced in psychedelics who did not experienced this fear. In fact, it's very common topic discussed amongst us.

I have been thinking about this the whole evening. How is it that some people seem to not be too scared of going all in into a psychedelic? Every single time I have to force myself. Once it starts I usually can more or less relax, but the anticipation and the moments just before are quite difficult. I would expect most people that have had more than just a few experiences to have at least a little bit of anxiety or worry. But it's clearly not the case, so in line with what I said about models, my model of that aspect of reality is not too useful and/or broken.

 

[northape]

I have been thinking about this the whole evening. How is it that some people seem to not be too scared of going all into a psychedelic? Every single time I have to force myself. Once it starts I usually can more or less relax, but the anticipation and the moments just before are quite difficult. I would expect most people that have had more than just a few experiences to have at least a little bit of anxiety or worry. But it's clearly not the case, so in line with what I said about models, my model of that aspect of reality is not too useful and/or broken.

Nothing is broken. Some people just lack awareness, are extremely sure of themselves, and do not know what they are dealing with. I have seen this attitude quite a few times, and it never leads to a medicine path, only drug use. They may learn, but it is not a certainty. The modern curse of consumerism and individual freedom runs deep.
We are responsible only for ourselves. Have a good moral code and be kind to people. Some should never have partaken in any psychedelics
However, I am no God to decide people's fates