Aboriginal Dreamtime and DMT

[wage.]

Has anyone ever wondered if the Aboriginal Dreamtime stories have anything to do with DMT?

The Rainbow Serpent, the creation of the world. I don't know a lot about Aboriginal Culture though.

DMT and Harmala Alkaloids are present in different species of Acacia at extremely different levels during different seasons. Is it possible that the origin of the "Dreamtime" could have come from an MAOI and DMT containing Acacia?

 

[Spice Sailor]

I know I have. Seems relatively feasible that some indigenous people in Australia accidentally or intentionally ingested parts of Acacias that contained tryptamines and / or MAOI's.

The fact that the dream time stories contain a lot of references to bright colours, people and animals dying and being reborn/ reincarnated and people / animals / geological features changing shape, size etc. ( just a few points of many) does make me feel they COULD be the result of being under the effects of DMT and MAOI's.

Many people refute this however, but in my opinion the cultures of many or most old indigenous Australians have been lost due "the white fella" and mobs many varied dialects made sharing with other groups difficult.

 

[Global]

In what plant is an MAOI found in Australia if any?

 

[3rdI]

I'm don't know if any Aus plants contain an maoi, but i wonder if it would be possible to drink a large amount of acacia brew similar to the way you can drink Jeruma in large amounts and it is active without an maoi.

 

[sidefx]

There is an unnumbered amount of acacias in australia

and i don't think there is one with any maoi present, but i have read reports that some acacias have been found containing all sorts of known chemicals

a few even with mescaline, and all sorts of stuff not tested


We know the Aboriginals Held the Acacia plants or 'Wattles' as sacred

and at there corroboree's (ceremonial meetings) they always burnt copious amounts of the species wood and flowers and probably the roots also, Dancing and singing chants all through the night

You know in one story the Rainbow serpent gave the first didgeridoo so we could remember its song

 

[galulyah]

I don't suppose you would need a maoi...could make a snuff right? Or any number of other ways to get a crude dmt extract. Such an old culture with those trees everywhere not to mention the other rich ecology. It seems almost obvious, would really just like an elder aborigonal to confirm this.

 

[acacian]

In what plant is an MAOI found in Australia if any?

there have been findings of tetrahydroharmine in acacia baileyana (cootamundra wattle) and harmine in young acacia mucronata.. details in endlessness's acacia analysis thread The Acacia Analysis Thread - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

i've also heard rumours of the christmas tree in WA containing beta carbolines

no doubt there are many more to come... australia is full of plants which still need chemical analysis...i think with between the number of dmt rich acacias and other acacias with diverse alkaloid profiles its very likely that oral brews were used by aboriginal tribes.
there have been cases of people drinking acacia brews that have been oraly active on their own.. i think nen posted the details somewhere in the improving acacia info thread

 

[jamie]

In what plant is an MAOI found in Australia if any?

Peganum harmala. I dunno if it has always grown there but it does grow there wild now.

There are others also..the broad leaf acuminata is one and I think it has been bioassayed by itself and there is enough harmalas there to make it active..and I know they have others that are prob kept secret..

 

[wage.]

Sorry to have oversimplified so much. There's Harmala Alkaloids present in a few species of Acacias, Acacia mucronata var longifolia has some evidence. The Alkaloids seem to fluctuate in % by season.

There's some interesting analysis in the link below, it's a great thread.

The Acacia Analysis Thread - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[sidefx]

And we must take into account how the Australian Aboriginal's Culture was completely Upset and consequently destroyed by settling Europeans

there was once over 52 tribes with over one hundred dialects in Australia


Now there are maybe a few dialects,



Australia was once completely habited by aboriginal tribes now life concentrates only on the coasts

 

[acacian]

SThe Alkaloids seem to fluctuate in % by season.

and to elaborate on that it seems most acacias have reduced levels of alkaloids to completely devoid when in flowering

 

[acacian]

And we must take into account how the Australian Aboriginal's Culture was completely Upset and consequently destroyed by settling Europeans

there was once over 52 tribes with over one hundred dialects in Australia


Now there are maybe a few dialects,



Australia was once completely habited by aboriginal tribes now life concentrates only on the coasts

exactly .. it seems strange to me that people are willing to jump the gun so quickly in saying that oral brews are impossible with native australian flora... we really know very little about australian flora in general...a pretty decent % of our flora still needs analysis... and much that has been analysed is very general in that it doesn't name alkaloids-instead it just indicates that species are "alkaloid positive". this is why research on acacias is in dire need in my opinion... for the sake of bringing back lost knowledge that we westerners played a huge part in destroying, and also for the sake of the livelihood of the trees themselves. everybody just goes for obtusifolia and acuminata because there just isn't enough consistent info on the other species alkaloid profiles... this will inevitably end badly for the species population

also doesn't MAOI only inhibit dmt to a certain point? this would suggest that oral brews were in fact possible on their own, just more dmt is needed. and theres no shortage of acacia for that. other than eucalyptus, acacia is the most common genus of plant in australia

i remember reading a post by someone on corroboree who had been in contact with some tribesmen and apparently they hinted that they did in fact use the acacia for their dmt. i cant remember what thread it was on though. this is all very word of mouth but i like to think this info didn't spring from nowhere

 

[sidefx]

Yeah i have read here by a long time poster if you have enough orally it will work, and maybe you could chew on something??
salvia will not absorb much at all in the stomach but if chewed the mouth absorbs a lot

 

[Global]

Yeah i have read here by a long time poster if you have enough orally it will work, and maybe you could chew on something??
salvia will not absorb much at all in the stomach but if chewed the mouth absorbs a lot

Well perhaps it's in one of the acacias with the harmalas, but if you try and take DMT sublingually without any harmalas, you won't come up with much (I've tried it and noticed zero effects, and I know others here have noticed the same), so I don't see why chewing an acacia would be any different if it didn't have harmalas.

 

[acacian]

Yeah i have read here by a long time poster if you have enough orally it will work, and maybe you could chew on something??
salvia will not absorb much at all in the stomach but if chewed the mouth absorbs a lot

Well perhaps it's in one of the acacias with the harmalas, but if you try and take DMT sublingually without any harmalas, you won't come up with much (I've tried it and noticed zero effects, and I know others here have noticed the same), so I don't see why chewing an acacia would be any different if it didn't have harmalas.

isn't there a saturation point though? i was under the impression that harmalas only inhibit dmt to a certain point.. meaning you just have to ingest a much higher dose of dmt for it to become orally active. whether the dose required to do so would be toxic I am unsure... anyone?

 

[sidefx]

im sure if you drank 4 or 5 grams of pure dmt you would feel something ??

 

[Spice Sailor]

Depends how good your body is at oxidising monoamines. (Most people's are pretty good).

 

[Little Brother]

DreaMTime

I have thought about it many times too, it really wouldnt surprise me. To SWIM, Spice experiences feel like they are outside this life, if that makes sense.

SWIM has had the honour and pleasure of playing Didgeridoo to people going on Spice journeys, and all reported feeling pleasantly guided by the sound. It just seemed to go hand in hand.

Just a few thougths, nothing solid. I would be really curious about Australian MAOIs too. Theres bound to be something..

 

[Seldom]

the idea of drinking 4-5 grams of dmt is ridiculous ^. sidefx post #10 is wrong. Indigenous Australians hold the oldest unbroken culture on the planet. You sleep in their dust if you live here, their culture was not destroyed, have some respect. It's obviously not everywhere but Law is still practiced, skin groups still mark ties, time of day is still measured by the shadows, passage of the year and presence of animal species at any time or place is still being read off the flowering times of different plants, corroboree and ceremony are still alive, the coolamons are still boiling .. Aboriginal culture took a fair wack during colonisation, but it is fairly easy to find you look for it.

Through fortuitous circumstance I had the privilege recently of meeting Aboriginal scholar Barry McDonald, co-author of Iwenhe Tyerrtye with Arrernte elder Margaret Turner, which a set text for a unit i'm currently doing. I put this question to him in many forms, and his position was that he hadn't heard of DMT, and to his knowledge it was not part of traditional life. Australia's Aboriginals however have no notion of freedom of information, family lineage determines which part of the dreaming it is each person's responsibility to uphold, and there is a complex system of taboos specifying what can be known and what can be said by any particular person. it's fairly well documented in anthropological literature that Indigenous Australians used psychoactives. For an interesting (frustratingly curious) post in a related area see Pityrodia salviifolia - Pat Uri's debutante

 

[Wax]

I don't know anything about it but the artwork sure looks similar to some ayahuasca art.

Little brother, playing the didgeridoo on LSD was one of the most proper things I have done. It felt so right, I seriously felt like I was calling to my interdimensional alien brothers. I will have to try it on DMT one day