Discussing Our Evolutionary Baggage

[VisualDistortion]

I want to create a discussion about human traits or instincts, whos cons outweigh the benifits, that hinder our advancement as a species. I am not satisfied with the "Human Condition". I believe that by using our minds and reasoning powers we can exhibit mastery over the instincts that have been passed on to us by our ancestors, our evolutionary baggage, in a manner of speaking. The goal of this discussion is to identify these traits. The identification of these traits will hopefully be the first step in a resolution of the "Human Condition" which plagues mankind.

Rules: First, provide a trait and definition. Then gives the pro's and con's of this trait, or survival mechanism. If it is unclear why something would be a pro or a con, give reasoning. If you disagree with a person on something, post what you disagree with, provide a counter arguement, and provide reasoning for that counter arguement. If you have more to add to what someone has said, identify what you are advocating and post what you have to say accordingly.

I do not want frivolous bickering or any insults. If what you have to say will not provide productive information then please do not post it. This is not an arguement or a debate, it is a scientific discussion of human nature. I hope a moderator will be kind enough to help keep the discussion on track.

I am happy to hear any viewpoint that is potentially productive. Intellectual diversity is the key to our future.

 

[VisualDistortion]

I'll start of the discussion with

GroupThink

Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas.(Wiki)

Cons

It interfers with or eliminates the reasoning abilities of a rational human being.

Individuality and creativity are not present in individuals participating in GroupThink.

GroupThink can be used to motivate large groups of otherwise rational people to commits acts of mass injustice.
(I.E. The Inquisition, The Salem Witch Trial, Nazi Germany, The Holocaust.)

Pros

None

-
Some might say the a pro of GroupThink is the ability to quickly mobilize a large group of people when needed for something besides injustice. I believe GroupThink occurs only when acts of injustice are being executed. If the goal was righteous and the cause was just, GroupThink would not be needed to motivate a group of rational people.

 

[appelseen]

People can become swept away with groupthink and yet imagine that they are only being rational and doing the right thing.

In my opinion the best antidote to groupthink is to never think another living being as an instance of some "group" but as an individual. Avoiding labelling as much as possible.

 

[polytrip]

Group thinking is a result of the social bounding that has brought us where we are now. Basically, the social character of our species is responsible for all the good and evil we do and the fact we're still here shows that more good then evil results from the group thinking.
Nevertheless, our ancestors where all totall cunt's ofcourse; if they'd sent more time eating psychedelic plants instead of heaving to breed so desperately, we wouldn't have all these economic crisis bullshitstuff right now.

 

[Saidin]

Interesting topic, I look forward to what people have to say.

For me, the human condition is perfect exactly as it is. Of couse we do not live in a perfect world, but I cannot think of anything that applies to humanity as a whole. These descriptors of negative traits do not apply to humanity as a whole, but rather to segments of it. This is exactly as it should be in my opinion. We all have free will, to act, behave, and believe as we desire. Therefore how can anything be wrong, when it is only a personal/local manifistation or expression of the human condtion. It is but a small part of the whole, and that whole is exactly as it should be.

 

[endlessness]

Our evolutionary baggage is, in a way, the crystallization of what worked most times for most people, so to say.

Today I was thinking about how for example when one skates, snowboards or slides barefoot in a waterfall with flat rock, these are perfect examples of how an instinct needs to be overridden, as it may have worked in the past but in that situation its negative. Our instinct tell us to put our weight back when we start sliding. Our ancestors that started sliding down a mountain probably saved themselves many times by falling backwards and holding on to some tree. But with these sports, one has to put the weight forward to be stable and have the speed and control necessary, so its anti-instinctive.

Several types of fears must also have evolutionary reason. Also prejudice. Prejudice, pre-judgement and over generalization are negative in a way (for example when one believes blacks are criminals because he seen a black person rob someone once, or whatever), but they are also necessary, like for example when we 'pre-judge' that a door handle will open when we hold it and make a clockwise movement, like with all the other doors we are used to. If we didnt have this 'short-cut generalization' we would each time we open a door have to 'relearn it', and this would cost us a lot of time and energy


one more thing.. I think our evolutionary baggage, no matter how 'negative', can be useful to us if we are conscious of it. Like a fakhir that through self-mortification gains awareness of the transitory nature of reality, goes beyond the flesh and so on, also us, if we are conscious of our negative baggages, can use the friction from the struggle of trying to override it, to become more conscious and stronger people.

So I think the battle in the end is to become more Conscious, and the problems naturally solve themselves through this raising of Awareness. Which is why I think education is the best chance we have, in the long term, to help people be more conscious and be able to deal with all the problematic baggage coming from the past

 

[Saidin]

So I think the battle in the end is to become more Conscious, and the problems naturally solve themselves through this raising of Awareness. Which is why I think education is the best chance we have, in the long term, to help people be more conscious and be able to deal with all the problematic baggage coming from the past

Well said and I agree with you. The ultimate goal is to become more Conscious.

 

[11:11]

I am still learning it at the moment but I am starting become quite attached to the 8 circuit neurological model of consciousness. It explains very well our 'Evolutionary Baggage' and why society has not progressed into higher consciousness/circuits as of yet.

Evolutionary Baggage as you call it, and Instincts are imprint conditioning, if one follows the Leary-Wilson 8 circuit model. Having to do with the first, the Oral-Bio-Survival circuit, which deals with 2 things only, Advance or Retreat. Fight or Flight. This is the instinctual circuit and first developed in animals starting about 3 billion years ago, it is responsible for one thing and one thing alone, Staying Alive. Robert Anton Wilson in Prometheus Rising provides an interesting example that has to do with our (in a general sense) being stuck partially in this circuit and that is why so many people smoke. This is an unconscious lingering instinct stemming from the mothers breast and sucking on it meant life in our first stages of growth, our first major imprint, this is why it is called the Oral Bio-Survival circuit. He suggests that this is why so many people smoke while knowing the potential hazards of it.

Not really following your outline but this is my contribution the the discussion. The first 4 circuits have to deal with instinctual functions and social stature where as the next 4 circuits are slated for our future evolution into higher consciousness. There is a minority on the Earth now that utilize these circuits but the have not been recognized massively yet, I do think that this is by design although, by those in control of the masses. Yogis and monks do have these circuits developed and are the prototype for our future, in my opinion.

 

[VisualDistortion]

Interesting, and good information. I might do an outline on tribalism tomorrow.

 

[Saidin]

I am still learning it at the moment but I am starting become quite attached to the 8 circuit neurological model of consciousness. It explains very well our 'Evolutionary Baggage' and why society has not progressed into higher consciousness/circuits as of yet.

Interesting, I'm going to have to look into this. Sounds very similar to the Chakra system of eastern philosophies, and perhaps a congruent way of understanding the same system. Thanks for the idea.

 

[Cheeto]

Sexual Desire (Horny)


Cons - If you have intellegence you don't need the desire, its main purpose in nature is to reproduce, not to have fun. The addiction behind it can cause you to do things you normally wouldn't. Like fuck a (Girl:Boy) you just met at a party without knowing who she/he is or what she/he could have. It can also drive you to say, ahhh, since i don't have a condom i'll let it slide this time. It is also the cause of young people screwing there lives up by having childrean when there not even able to support themselfs yet, making life that much harder. Also, with all the hrony fever going around its a big STD pool, if people didn't keep spreading aids it would die out. Because of this horny fever there a many children without homes because there parents couldn't support them, and instead of people doing the right thing and adopting children that need homes, the make babies themselfs. Sure it what you always wanted, but that dosent make it right, because you could have helped a kid that is already here and without a family.


Pros - Reproduction(But you don't really need to be horny to have sex to reproduce.

 

[blue_velvet]

Robert Anton Wilson in Prometheus Rising provides an interesting example that has to do with our (in a general sense) being stuck partially in this circuit and that is why so many people smoke. This is an unconscious lingering instinct stemming from the mothers breast and sucking on it meant life in our first stages of growth, our first major imprint, this is why it is called the Oral Bio-Survival circuit. He suggests that this is why so many people smoke while knowing the potential hazards of it.

Seems like a bit of a Freud rip-off. It's the same as his theory on the oral stage of psychological development in infants and the future occurrence of oral fixation.

Tobacco is known to contain MAOIs giving it a slight anti-depressant quality and causing pleasure. More people are diagnosed with depression than ever before and this could account for a good portion of smokers as well as anyone who wants to have the pleasant feelings, however slight. Experiments in animals have shown that they will repeatedly push a lever that activates the pleasure centers in their brain, even when shocked repeatedly each time.

The first time you take a draw off a cigarette your survival instinct will tell you that you shouldn't by expelling air rapidly from your lungs. This function occurs in infants alongside their sucking. They are both hardwired, evolutionary traits, but its likely that infants would cough just as much as they would feed. In accordance with lingering survival instincts, the need to keep the lungs functional would be just as prevalent psychologically. If this is the case it's interesting that humans would condition themselves to ignore such an important survival mechanism for a little pleasure.

 

[endlessness]

Robert Anton Wilson in Prometheus Rising provides an interesting example that has to do with our (in a general sense) being stuck partially in this circuit and that is why so many people smoke. This is an unconscious lingering instinct stemming from the mothers breast and sucking on it meant life in our first stages of growth, our first major imprint, this is why it is called the Oral Bio-Survival circuit. He suggests that this is why so many people smoke while knowing the potential hazards of it.

Seems like a bit of a Freud rip-off. It's the same as his theory on the oral stage of psychological development in infants and the future occurrence of oral fixation.

Its just not a rip off because RAW acknowledged Freud's idea, but he extended them to other 'circuits' which he considered were not mentioned in freud's thoughts... Im not a fan of his (or leary's) 8 circuit consciousness model, though..

but anyways I dont think we can point one single factor why people smoke even though there are dangers.. There are several other factors I can think of for this, like for example the glamour of smoking that hollywood communicates, influencing people. Also the addictive aspect of nicotine. Also a certain 'defect' humans seem to have a lot of the times which is to compartmentalize and isolate psychological functions, so for example when one 'knows' that cigarrete is bad but does not 'feel' it.. and other explanations one can think of..

 

[11:11]

Yes exactly, Wilson didn't claim to create the idea he just refined it further to his liking by compounding models of Freud, Jung, Leary and even Korzybsky to create his model. I don't believe that smoking can be narrowed down to one singular programmed desire either, it was just an interesting thought which I wouldn't have considered beforehand. But then again RAW's work is full of those

I am not finished Prometheus Rising yet but I am liking the model very much so far but as with any new idea, I will live in the mind of believing it until I have noticeable effects or come across completely conflicting information and then make judgment afterwards. So we'll see if it still makes sense in a year or so.