Is DMT evidence for an afterlife?

[remotealien]

Does anyone else think that DMT is evidence for the afterlife? I recall smoking DMT and being transported to a different reality completely, and can only think that this is possible evidence of a hidden spiritual dimension to reality. Does anyone feel the same? Why or why not?

 

[Here&Now]

It is evidence in my opinion, but someone with a different view could easily interpret it as an abnormality generated solely by the brain. Barring something tangible that's more convincing than an extraordinary subjective experience, it'll have to remain ambiguous for the time being.

 

[Pandora]

remotealien,

I have strong suspicions about the idea that there is a very strong relationship between hyperspace and the Realm of the Dead so to speak. But as far as I know there is no scientific evidence that is locked in.

The scientists tell us our Default Mode Networks are getting scrambled when we take a solid psychedelic dose and thus letting new ideas, including novel explanations for an astonishing experience in. Such as hyperspace = glimpse into the afterlife.

But knowing this scientific explanation does little to shake the heavy salience of my experiences.

So, I am left in the position of trying to be open minded yet skeptical. It seems to me given how I have shaken up my mind/belief systems with DMT use, that perhaps death is not the end. Perhaps there is a small percentage chance that something continues. I find this to be very exciting personally and to offer hope for something transcending the death of the physical.

 

[remotealien]

Thanks for the replies.

Here's google AI's perspective on Terrence McKenna's view on life after death as it relates to DMT and other psychedelics:

"Terence McKenna's views on the afterlife were not a conventional belief but a fluid, psychedelic-informed perspective, heavily influenced by shamanic traditions and his DMT experiences. He viewed death as a transition of consciousness rather than a final end.
Key aspects of his beliefs include:

• The afterlife is a psychedelic realm. He suggested that the realms encountered during DMT trips might, in fact, be the destination after death. He speculated that the "spiritual entities" people consistently meet on DMT could be the souls of the dead or ancestors.
• Consciousness joins the collective subconscious. McKenna proposed that in death, our individual consciousness merges into a vast collective subconscious, a kind of "spiritual expression of humanity".
• Life as preparation for death. Based on shamanic and yogic traditions, McKenna argued that the purpose of life is to become familiar with one's "after-death body" through practices like psychedelic use. This preparation would make the act of dying less confusing for the psyche.
• Death as a "black hole of biology." Despite his visionary ideas, McKenna also spoke about death with scientific humility. He called death an "event horizon" beyond which no information can be sent back, suggesting that while we can prepare for the transition, we cannot truly know what lies on the other side.
• Dying is not a void but an opportunity. As he faced terminal brain cancer, McKenna spoke of his impending death as a "blessing" that illuminated the "light of eternity." He saw it as a profound opportunity to sort things out, rather than a horrifying, instantaneous ending.

McKenna's perspective on the afterlife was a fusion of ancient shamanism and modern psychedelic exploration, rather than a fixed, religious belief. His ideas offered a challenging and complex vision of death as a phase of transformation and continued consciousness."

 

[Kobranek]

Well that certainly wraps things up. Nothing like starting and ending a thread huh? Lol

Not really just busting your chops with the whole AI bit

Terrence spent a great deal of his life's work around this very subject and was able to articulate it in such a way that made a lot of sense to me. He was a legend in this area of expertise.

I've gotten that vibe that the experience is so vast that it cannot be contained within a parallel or alternate universe which the afterlife has been theorized to tap into. It provides a certain value not only for me but apparently many others that work with psychedelics. The metaphysical aspect to the experience does hold therapeutic value for those who are trying to make peace with trauma extending into the ancestral realm.

 

[Jamie01]

What if before and after don’t really exist?

Only your vantage point…only it’s infinite.

 

[Kobranek]

There would need to be some point of reference to make sense of where one is at hence the space time continuum of the reality that we are in.

 

[Jamie01]

I get that but still…where is the past? Where did it go? Where is the future?

Do we have all the reference points?

I think in some way every single moment of your life is forever. I think the past is forever happening in the past and the future is forever happening in the future. We think these things appear and disappear, because from our vantage they do.

I’m not trying to entirely make sense.

 

[Kobranek]

That's crazy because I just had this same thought today but in a slightly different context as far as what we do when recorded is forever enshrined in time.

But to look at it in a more broader context as far as the history of reality as a whole is already set along with the future but it is just our vantage point that dictates how we interpret our current state. This makes me wonder how my future effects me today and whether I've put too much stock in my past?

 

[Here&Now]

Terence McKenna was good at making interesting observations about the DMT experience, but I find Ram Dass to be more holistic in his view about how psychedelics fit into the picture of mysticism. Through authentic practice, he reached a point where he didn't even need psychedelics to tap into rarified states of consciousness. If I remember right, I think Terence McKenna had a more negative view about meditation for some reason.

 

[remotealien]

Terence McKenna was good at making interesting observations about the DMT experience, but I find Ram Dass to be more holistic in his view about how psychedelics fit into the picture of mysticism. Through authentic practice, he reached a point where he didn't even need psychedelics to tap into rarified states of consciousness. If I remember right, I think Terence McKenna had a more negative view about meditation for some reason.

He called meditation "boring" but I think he was joking somewhat.

 

[remotealien]

Terence McKenna was good at making interesting observations about the DMT experience, but I find Ram Dass to be more holistic in his view about how psychedelics fit into the picture of mysticism. Through authentic practice, he reached a point where he didn't even need psychedelics to tap into rarified states of consciousness. If I remember right, I think Terence McKenna had a more negative view about meditation for some reason.

I like Ram Dass also.

 

[redbird]

Terence McKenna was good at making interesting observations about the DMT experience, but I find Ram Dass to be more holistic in his view about how psychedelics fit into the picture of mysticism. Through authentic practice, he reached a point where he didn't even need psychedelics to tap into rarified states of consciousness. If I remember right, I think Terence McKenna had a more negative view about meditation for some reason.

Something something blind men something elephant
Have you ever read Aleister Crowley's takes on meditation? Surprisingly salient and steeped in traditional theory.

I get that but still…where is the past? Where did it go? Where is the future?

Do we have all the reference points?

I think in some way every single moment of your life is forever. I think the past is forever happening in the past and the future is forever happening in the future. We think these things appear and disappear, because from our vantage they do.

I’m not trying to entirely make sense.

This reminds me of Reality Transurfing in a way. Everything that ever could and will happen is already and is always happening in the "Alternatives Space" and our experience of life is the movement of our participating awareness along a lifeline through that space.
To veer out of RT and bridge what you're saying, our ego requires a causal relationship between phenomena to makes sense of things and one of the by products of that requirement is the concept of time.
But in seeing reality and seeing ourselves, we see, without always recognizing, that we only ever see the eternal Now. The past and future are figments of our imagination, no matter how convincing.

But to look at it in a more broader context as far as the history of reality as a whole is already set along with the future but it is just our vantage point that dictates how we interpret our current state. This makes me wonder how my future effects me today and whether I've put too much stock in my past?

Robert Anton Wilson called this our Reality Tunnel and that the primary impact of psychedelics is to widen or shift an individual's reality tunnel.

 

[Here&Now]

Something something blind men something elephant
Have you ever read Aleister Crowley's takes on meditation? Surprisingly salient and steeped in traditional theory.

I hadn't, but based on a quick search, it looks like his views were similar to mine or Ram Dass'. That is surprising, because I always thought of Aleister Crowley as like a 'black magic' kind of guy, meaning he believed in some strange offshoot of mysticism that was bizarre and suspect. But his basic model seemed to fall in line with the standard perennial philosophy.

 

[Starman]

Research shows that experiences often labeled as "mind-expanding" like DMT are actually associated with a decrease in brain activity. So in that sense, what you experience on DMT is a less filtered version of reality by the brain. Perhaps you could look at death as having no filter at all.

Salvia to me is where this kind of thing gets interesting. People experiencing living entire lives, just as real as this one. Who's to say we aren't living inside of one of those right now? There is really no way to distinguish. My personal, oversimplified, opinion on it is that it's all part of some endless experience with no beginning and no end. Things just are.

 

[northape]

Don't forget that Terence allegedly gave DMT to a Tibetan Lama, who responded: 'This is the lesser lights, the lesser lights of the Bardo. You cannot go further into the Bardo and return.' For anyone who has read the Tibetan Book of the Dead, it would be a fascinating fact.

I feel death would be very similar to your most intense DMT journey. When we leave the body behind, all the filters and safety mechanisms are out of the picture. The intensity could go to infinity and even consume you whole. Tibetans say that if you recognize yourself in these displays, liberation is possible. How many have recognized themselves in DMT visions or even experienced a lucid dream state?

I subscribe to the idea that we are in the eternal now. Nothing goes from here to anywhere. Even death is just part of the show, just as sleep is part of life. There's no need to stress; you are endless. Although, I hope to find myself in a better environment for internal practice next time around. Alternatively, a reincarnation as a bonobo would allow me to f*ck my way to freedom

 

[Jamie01]

Terrence shoulda given him salvia and seen what he had to say then

 

[northape]

Terrence shoulda given him salvia and seen what he had to say then

Sure, most likely his obsession with DMT played the biggest role. In Tibetan literature, they only mention datura, but most likely all of these plants were used before the monastic order took over. I give it value only because they have a good map of the territory and many practitioners who actually reached these places. Sometimes I feel like we are children playing with shiny toys, and there is a higher order of reality if we just put our distractions aside and see what is what.

 

[Jamie01]

They had Acacia catechu(now Senegalia) in the cults associated with Tara as well..

 

[northape]

They had Acacia catechu(now Senegalia) in the cults associated with Tara as well..

If you take into account that it all came out of tantric traditions where they used any means possible, the picture becomes even clearer. Psychedelics are all over the ancient world; the further back you go, the more evidence of use there is. Some traditions claim 40,000 years of history behind them, and given the latest discoveries about the Younger Dryas comet impact, it could be possible. We don't know sh*t. This place is pure mystery.