• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

~Phalaris = The Way Of The Future~

Migrated topic.
aizoaceous said:
On that subject, here are superimposed chromatograms of P. brachystachys extract at different life stages: purely vegetative growth with leaves only, reproductive growth with flowers present, and a dying plant after flowering that had begun to naturally desiccate despite normal irrigation. The vertical axis has been normalized to the same maximum height for all three.

View attachment 104180

We get purest 5-MeO-DMT before flowering. Gramine increases with time, eventually becoming the dominant alkaloid by fluorescence height. I don't have a gramine standard, so I don't know how that maps to mass. I unfortunately didn't keep good enough notes to report the absolute concentrations, but I recall that the concentration of 5-MeO-DMT decreased with time.

I don't know how this would affect the subjective experience since I didn't consume these unpurified. The answer here may just be "not much", given gramine's general inertness in these relatively low doses. Other species or varieties may be completely different, and the diversity of Phalaris is both its promise and its challenge.

I'm very happy with the variety of P. brachystachys that I'm working with. I wish it had a name; the seller didn't identify it beyond the species. A patch of 2-3 square feet outdoors yields about 1000 g fresh weight per month, which yields about 200 mg 5-MeO-DMT. The same seed grown hydroponically indoors is about 5x as strong.

For completeness, I've tried and failed repeatedly to crystallize 5-MeO-DMT succinate. This is reported in the literature, but the same conditions that successfully crystallized the oxalate didn't work, plus various other attempts. My resin was much more soluble in ethanol than that paper's supplementary materials implied it should be. I guess that might be residual water as a cosolvent; perhaps it would have worked if the resin had been dried hotter or under vacuum, or perhaps a natural impurity inhibits crystallization (since the impurity profile of their synthetic product would be completely different).
Click to expand...

Speaking of gramine spiking up in drying partially dessicated leaves. Here's a paper that correlates with your findings: https://ojs.openagrar.de/index.php/JABFQ/article/view/2144/2530

Dead aq leaf litter is still rich in gramine and works as alelopathic agent so it really has an evolutionary purpose in plant competition.

By the way i had pretty good yield and very potent extracts from dying partially dessicated leaves from aq before. Infact it was one of the strongest breakthroughs I had and cleanest in effects. It was the brightest most positive experience i had with phalaris.
 
Last edited:
I need to read through this thread again I guess when I have time but…are most of you drying your grass first? I just harvested maybe 200 grams dry yugo red and a bunch of aquatica this week…I have been drying it in a dehydrator because I save it up and extract it in winter.

I used to brew it right away, reduce and freeze each harvest but that got annoying.
 
Yes i suggest you re-read the thread you'd find all the answers to your questions. Baking definitely is the best way for yield when it comes to aq. I haven't worked with arud yet.

Also don't reduce the tea to viscous consistency. Sometimes i get busy and tea reduces to a viscous liquid so i dilute it with more water before basing and add base gradually in small increments untill i notice a slight change in colour and smell that's when i add solvent and make my first pull.. then i pull, add more base and pull again. Two pulls is all i need with DCM and chloroform.

If emulsions form i can easily break them by diluting with a weak base solution and add more solvent. Never allow emulsion to sit around hoping for it to break on it's own it won't .. it will only get nastier and harder to break.

Keep in mind that if you cook and extract small batches it will always work with no issues whether dry or fresh. At least this is true for Tanit cultivar.
 
Hey Jamie01,
that’s a really interesting harvest you’ve got there. Have you thought about running some TLC on the different batches? In my experience, P. arundinacea tends to be quite rich in β-carbolines, and I’ve noticed pretty strong seasonal variation. It might even be possible to identify specific chemotypes worth pursuing - or avoiding. The nice thing is that different tryptamines and β-carbolines are usually quite easy to distinguish this way.
 
JungleGhost said:
Other than complicated extractions how are people using this?
Click to expand...
Well, there was this:
blig-blug said:
It's not like it has surfaced any new information. That's why there's a breeding program. Furthermore, @neurobloom has found a cultivar with up to 0.4% 5-MeO-DMT, and it can be smoked directly with clear effects.
Click to expand...
Breed strong grass, smoke literal grass. But you still better do some kind of extraction for analysis, to get a picture of the grass' potency.

This is a big thread with lots of recent information to digest, but it didn't take me long to scroll back and find an example of a nominally easier approach - if you have access to a grass strain of assured potency, which, if you know the gist of working with phalaris, isn't a given.
 
JungleGhost said:
Would Phalaris work as a tea? Looking to use without having to do an extraction..
Click to expand...
It might, but it also might kill you. Phalaris contains both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, in amounts that vary with genetics and growing conditions. Without a laboratory test, you don't know what you have. The combination of synthetic 5-MeO-DMT and an MAOI has killed at least one person. The natural product presents the same risk. A dangerous dose of 5-MeO-DMT is generally less than an active dose of DMT. For example, here's a case of hospitalization after an alleged 35 mg with harmalas.

An overdose of smoked 5-MeO-DMT is also potentially fatal, and per its TIHKAL entry might be the closest Shulgin ever came to killing someone. That's easier to avoid by gradually increasing the dose though, since you can quickly judge the effects. This is analogous to how people overdose more frequently on edible cannabis than on smoked cannabis, except that instead of risking an unpleasant evening, you risk death.

The crude extract into acidified water (i.e. tea) looks awful to drink, and I've never tried it. I see from the other thread that someone did and reports success, so I guess they managed not to vomit. That increases the risk that you'd manage not to vomit out an overdose, though.

If anyone does feel compelled to try ayahuasca from un-analyzed Phalaris, then start with much less than your expected dose (e.g. 1/30 or less), and increase the dose slowly (e.g. by 1.5x) on successive days until you feel effects. Ensure that a sober person is nearby and prepared to seek medical attention. An overdose of most of the drugs discussed on this forum is unlikely to cause permanent harm, but 5-MeO-DMT is different.
 
neurobloom said:
1g Tanit dry leaves tea 30 mins after 4g rue tea was already overwhelmingly potent trip lasted for 8 hours. High heart rates the whole time restless legs and hypertension. Just 1g!
Click to expand...
Note that @neurobloom was already familiar with the specific material grown here, from experience smoking extracts. Those genetics have also been analyzed by TLC. I wouldn't exactly recommend duplicating that experiment and I haven't myself (though I've taken purified 5-MeO-DMT with harmalas at lower doses). That experiment was fundamentally much safer than ayahuasca from unfamiliar Phalaris, though.

dithyramb said:
Phalaris teas alone, not mixed with anything are much safer, but likely won't give the psychedelic punch most people are seeking.
Click to expand...
Interestingly Ott reports that 5-MeO-DMT is orally active without harmalas, while Shulgin reports that it's not. Ott speculates that both reports are correct, and people just vary. Anyone wishing to experiment with this would be better off with the pure drug than random extracts, to avoid stacking the uncertainty of the plant on the uncertainty of the human.

Ott reports effects from 30 mg oral 5-MeO-DMT alone comparable to 10 mg with harmalas. It's possible that the danger of the higher dose would offset the safety of no harmalas, but I don't think there's enough experience to say anything confidently.
 
Back
Top Bottom