~Phalaris = The Way Of The Future~

[Jamie01]

N

Thread 'Passifloras of Interest..(& MAOI plant Flavonoids)'

Nov 9, 2011

..from researching the MAOI effects of various flavonoids, i am inspired to start a Passiflora thread.. some contain useable amounts of harmala alkaloids, but much of the sedative/action of these species is due to flavonoids..more on this later.
..northern hemispherians can perhaps bask in warm notions of growing some next spring..in fact some of the biggest collections of grown world-wide passifloras are in Germany and the Netherlands..

the following list is taken mainly from Voogelbreinder (2009), which has an excellent passiflora section, there are around 600 species worldwide...

• nen888
• Replies: 177
• Forum: Collaborative Research Project

• 

 

[neurobloom]

please consider the subjective nature of these experiences. Active Phalaris works just fine even when it’s not dried before processing.

We had Tanit tested many times by TLC and fresh vs dry leaves didn't show any difference in profile and yield neither i have noticed any difference with bulk extractions for smoking they're pretty much the same.

 

[purple sticky]

Russian olive is another potential MAOI. I think it's mainly harmane and norharmane (weaker MAOI than classic harmalas though) but like you said why bother when Syrian rue is plenty and cheap?

I remain cautious talking about MAOI's when discuss phalaris due to the often unpredictable nature of phalaris profile.

For sure. The benefit of passiflora is that it's indigenous to a lot of the States. The fruit are delicious as well and the taste of the leaves is surprising. I think it's best as a food or at best used as an herbal remedy. I do think it's an interesting plant to have knowledge about but it's application seems wildly laborious for little pay off. I believe that Syrian Rue can grow nearly everywhere anyways plus it's super easy to get.

MAOIs do kind of have a certain kind of danger to them. You can die by ingestion of specific aged cheeses while using an MAOI. A lot of medications will change quite a bit alongside an MAOI as well, some of which can turn out to be pretty dangerous.

There is the part of me that loves the research though. I think developing a 'tek' or whatever for passionflower would be valuable as we may not always have access to things like Syrian Rue. I'd rather know that it could be used and never have to. I haven't used Syrian Rue ever though, but I'm tempted to buy some just to add to my collection of specimens. I think it's an important ethnobotanical plant.

 

[blig-blug]

You can die by ingestion of specific aged cheeses while using an MAOI

Not with RIMAs (Reversible Inhibitors of MAO-A) like harmalas or passiflora.

 

[neurobloom]

For sure. The benefit of passiflora is that it's indigenous to a lot of the States. The fruit are delicious as well and the taste of the leaves is surprising. I think it's best as a food or at best used as an herbal remedy. I do think it's an interesting plant to have knowledge about but it's application seems wildly laborious for little pay off. I believe that Syrian Rue can grow nearly everywhere anyways plus it's super easy to get.

MAOIs do kind of have a certain kind of danger to them. You can die by ingestion of specific aged cheeses while using an MAOI. A lot of medications will change quite a bit alongside an MAOI as well, some of which can turn out to be pretty dangerous.

There is the part of me that loves the research though. I think developing a 'tek' or whatever for passionflower would be valuable as we may not always have access to things like Syrian Rue. I'd rather know that it could be used and never have to. I haven't used Syrian Rue ever though, but I'm tempted to buy some just to add to my collection of specimens. I think it's an important ethnobotanical plant.

I know an old friend who os taking blood thinning medication and consumed rue as herbal complement without his doctor's advice. It lead him having a stroke and partial loss of motor control. This happened on the third day of starting to consume rue tea. One full teaspoon a night.

 

[IdaaMight]

wow nexus, amazing thread, a successful bio-assay has been done on mycotopia, of 16mg extracted from phalaris

I HAVE to bump this thread, more work needs to be done

thanks to all you botanists and scientific minds!!!

happy travels

I'm not smart enough to even understand any of this thread which is very disheartening I have a ton of Reed canary grass and I don't know how to get what I need out of it if anybody could dumb it down for me this idiot would be really appreciative thank you

 

[Sakkadelic]

I'm not smart enough to even understand any of this thread which is very disheartening I have a ton of Reed canary grass and I don't know how to get what I need out of it if anybody could dumb it down for me this idiot would be really appreciative thank you

You do need some smarts to carry out this experiment and adapt it to your own circumstances, and to deal with any situation that might arise. If as you said you're not smart enough, that's all the more reason to take your time learn the process in detail and ask the right questions. You can start by learning about dmt extraction from the more common sources like mimosa where the process is straightforward. Then learn about the specifics of extracting from grass.

 

[Transform]

I'm not smart enough to even understand any of this thread which is very disheartening I have a ton of Reed canary grass and I don't know how to get what I need out of it if anybody could dumb it down for me this idiot would be really appreciative thank you

Make a list of each term you don't understand and go through it systematically to find out what each of them means. If it's posts by @benzyme, don't worry - he's a professional nerd of the highest calibre

Feel free to ask for clarification on specific points, but we can't pre-chew the whole thing for you. Once you get started, it really isn't that complicated.

 

[IdaaMight]

You do need some smarts to carry out this experiment and adapt it to your own circumstances, and to deal with any situation that might arise. If as you said you're not smart enough, that's all the more reason to take your time learn the process in detail and ask the right questions. You can start by learning about dmt extraction from the more common sources like mimosa where the process is straightforward. Then learn about the specifics of extracting from grass.

I have extracted from mimosa successfully.. Just from everything I can read online There's a lot of other things you can extract and read canary grass that are not necessarily ideal for consumption and I'm just wondering if maybe that's the internet feeding you bullshit or if there's a way to isolate the unwanted bits.. should I extract the read canary grass when it's dry or should I process it when it's wet and then just concentrated down before bringing it to base anybody live close and is good at this LOL I'm in Minnesota

 

[aizoaceous]

Phalaris shows big variation in alkaloid profile, even within a species. There is no way to judge the alkaloid profile from the appearance of the plant. If you intend to take x mg DMT but actually get x mg 5-MeO-DMT, then you're going to have a bad (even fatal) experience. There are labs in Colorado that I think will test for you without any license and it would be great to see those results, though I've never used them myself. TLC can be performed at home, though DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are unusually hard to separate so it's an unusually difficult TLC.

In all cases but especially if no testing is performed, start with a much lower dose than you expect will be active and slowly titrate up. Oral use with harmalas (ayahuasca) is much more dangerous than smoking, since the delayed onset makes it easier to misjudge the dose.

I've usually extracted from frozen and thawed grass, without drying. That seems to work pretty well, except that the solution ends up rather dilute so there's a lot of water to boil away. I've also used grass dried in a food dehydrator and milled in a blender, but I found the fibrous leaves made an inconveniently light and fluffy powder. Maybe longer drying and milling would help, not sure.

The extraction is more trouble than MHRB but totally doable. The major challenge is that variation. Better distribution of known cultivars will help, though there's still the possibility of a mislabeled plant, unexpected open pollination or mutation, etc. Any Phalaris extract should be considered at least as toxic as pure 5-MeO-DMT until proven otherwise. Other yet-unidentified constituents may also be toxic.

 

[neurobloom]

Phalaris shows big variation in alkaloid profile, even within a species. There is no way to judge the alkaloid profile from the appearance of the plant. If you intend to take x mg DMT but actually get x mg 5-MeO-DMT, then you're going to have a bad (even fatal) experience. There are labs in Colorado that I think will test for you without any license and it would be great to see those results, though I've never used them myself. TLC can be performed at home, though DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are unusually hard to separate so it's an unusually difficult TLC.

In all cases but especially if no testing is performed, start with a much lower dose than you expect will be active and slowly titrate up. Oral use with harmalas (ayahuasca) is much more dangerous than smoking, since the delayed onset makes it easier to misjudge the dose.

I've usually extracted from frozen and thawed grass, without drying. That seems to work pretty well, except that the solution ends up rather dilute so there's a lot of water to boil away. I've also used grass dried in a food dehydrator and milled in a blender, but I found the fibrous leaves made an inconveniently light and fluffy powder. Maybe longer drying and milling would help, not sure.

The extraction is more trouble than MHRB but totally doable. The major challenge is that variation. Better distribution of known cultivars will help, though there's still the possibility of a mislabeled plant, unexpected open pollination or mutation, etc. Any Phalaris extract should be considered at least as toxic as pure 5-MeO-DMT until proven otherwise. Other yet-unidentified constituents may also be toxic.

Phalaris extraction need not be more complicated than any ACRB Tek. If working with a high yielding clean DMT clone or cultivar a very standard acid base extraction on dried leaves works the exact same way as extracting any leafy DMT botanicals like psychotria or chaliponga with relatively similar yield and purity (0.2 to 0.7%)

The elite DMT clones/hybrids isolated from our breeding programme are gramine free and around 0.5 to 0.7% DMT they need no gramine seperation tek and no defats. The crude freebase from wide spectrum solvent like DCM and chloroform is already decently pure and potent for use. I'd only clean it further for making vape carts.

I highly recommend baking the leaves first it makes them cook so much faster. 15 mins cook twice is sufficient. It gets rid of emulsions issues.

Use slightly diluted tea and give it time to react after adding base to saponify the fats this will get rid of emulsions. A hot bath will speed up the saponification. When you start seeing more particles forming in the tea after basing you know you're good to start adding the non polar solvent.

 

[Jamie01]

I think I have enough tanit harvested to try an extraction now and I have limonene again. So I’m thinking of some type of A/B…basing a dry resin(evaporated from acidic tea) with sodium carb and pulling with limonene. This should pull the 5-MeO-DMT and I guess I am not worried about gramine atm anyway. I have smoked enough grass extracts in the past anyway and I’m okay. Do we have numbers for gramine in tanit?

I would use DCM but many things are annoying to obtain around here.

 

[neurobloom]

I don't see why you'd bother with a dry tek for such a small harvest. It will just consume more expensive limonene compared to a standard acid base.

Gramine concentration fluctuates in Tanit but it's mostly low. It often contains some 5-meo-nmt and small amount of betacarbolines.
A dry tek may also pull tyramines which would add more cardiac load to the bioassay especially of there's active amount of betacarbolines present.

I suggest a very standard acid base with limonene and salt your limo with just vinaigre. Evap your vinegar pulls in a water bath and smoke the acetate salt i tired this many times it works just fine.

How much leaf harvest you think you got?. I got away with an extraction using 45g fresh leaves in early spring this year pulling hot with zippo lighter fluid and salting with vinegar. Just a single 15 mins cook with citric. Picture of the 45g fresh leaf batch below. Dissolved the Acetate into 15 drops PG/VG dripped onto an RDA atomizer.

 

[Jamie01]

I have not used sodium carb to base while in solution..always used stronger bases but I guess you are right I should just base the tea.

Haven’t weighed my harvests yet. Il do it later when I’m home.

 

[neurobloom]

I used Aquous NaCO3 in acid/base to good results just keep the tea more on the dilute side and saturate it with soda till no more dissolves. Its pretty easy especially with a small harvest batch it runs very smooth.

 

[Transform]

anybody live close and is good at this LOL I'm in Minnesota

Maybe that's a joke, but just in case it isn't, please remind yourself of this:

No using the Nexus as a personal meet-up point

Due to potential legal risks, we do not want people giving their emails or personal contacts (or displaying full face pictures) openly. We don't want people telling other members they don't already know to meet up privately, this can be a problem for both the people meeting as well as bringing attention for the whole community. The only exception we make is that we allow establishing general meeting points for festivals and conferences because you don't have to say who you are in the Nexus when going there, and you can go to the meeting point if you want while remaining anonymous. If you do meet up, do not bring drugs and be sure to maintain your personal safety.