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The Atheist DMT Experience

Migrated topic.
actually I'm speaking more about reading into the bible and how HF speaks of it being written in code (i think), kind of like how you can read into the bible metaphorically so on and so forth.

hyperspace fool said:
And yet, the stuff I have seen about the Bible codes goes well beyond that, and can really blow your mind. I have read passages that when put through a cipher read not only intelligible info... but actually refer to the same subject matter as the original passage but on a deeper level... and then actually tell you to go back and read the same passage again with yet another cipher... that actually proves to provide even more detailed information on the same super esoteric subject matter.
 
Eliyahu - I realised something interesting. You were bringing up Hitler being an "occultist", Kabbalah comes under occult as well does it not? So are you an occultist? I assumed when you referenced Hitler and the occult that you were meaning that it is a bad thing to be involved in the occult, but perhaps that was not what you were inferring?
 
Garyp88 said:
Eliyahu - I realised something interesting. You were bringing up Hitler being an "occultist", Kabbalah comes under occult as well does it not? So are you an occultist? I assumed when you referenced Hitler and the occult that you were meaning that it is a bad thing to be involved in the occult, but perhaps that was not what you were inferring?


Yeah I sort of view the occult as a generic thing that could be used for good or evil purposes...I kno when most religious people say "occult" they mean evil witches or something..

I just mean esoteric information....

This is just my theory but I believe that Hitler thought he could interfere with the will of YHWH by killing all the jews...because no jews, no armageddon, no book of revelations coming true.. The Nazi's thought they could be rid of the Jews and effectively void armageddon and therefore rule indefinitley. That is just my personal theory on it.

Also the swastika bears some resemblance to not only hindu and american indian symbols but also looks like an Aleph the first letter of the hebrew aleph bet.


The swastika is tilted to the left to signify the following of the left hand path as far as I am aware.
 
anrchy said:
actually I'm speaking more about reading into the bible and how HF speaks of it being written in code (i think), kind of like how you can read into the bible metaphorically so on and so forth.

hyperspace fool said:
And yet, the stuff I have seen about the Bible codes goes well beyond that, and can really blow your mind. I have read passages that when put through a cipher read not only intelligible info... but actually refer to the same subject matter as the original passage but on a deeper level... and then actually tell you to go back and read the same passage again with yet another cipher... that actually proves to provide even more detailed information on the same super esoteric subject matter.


Oh ok man....it's a little confusing cuz there is just regular bible code and then kabbalistic code..
 
Eliyahu said:
Garyp88 said:
Eliyahu - I realised something interesting. You were bringing up Hitler being an "occultist", Kabbalah comes under occult as well does it not? So are you an occultist? I assumed when you referenced Hitler and the occult that you were meaning that it is a bad thing to be involved in the occult, but perhaps that was not what you were inferring?


Yeah I sort of view the occult as a generic thing that could be used for good or evil purposes...I kno when most religious people say "occult" they mean evil witches or something..

I just mean esoteric information....

This is just my theory but I believe that Hitler thought he could interfere with the will of YHWH by killing all the jews...because no jews, no armageddon, no book of revelations coming true.. The Nazi's thought they could be rid of the Jews and effectively void armageddon and therefore rule indefinitley. That is just my personal theory on it.

Also the swastika bears some resemblance to not only hindu and american indian symbols but also looks like an Aleph the first letter of the hebrew aleph bet.


The swastika is tilted to the left to signify the following of the left hand path as far as I am aware.

Fair enough. For me personally that makes it irrelevant. Makes no difference to me if he was Catholic or an occultist or a Scientologist. I thought you meant it in a kind of sinister satanist way, but I didn't really know what "occult" meant so I googled it and found that it is a kinda blanket term under which Kabbalah also falls. I judge him based on his actions and on what he said, and my judgement is that he was quite sincere, quite intelligent... and, as someone else said, batshit crazy and psychopathically deluded. I actually don't think he is the devil that he is portrayed as. After watching the film Downfall (a great film if you haven't seen it) I realised that it actually appeared that he really felt he was doing the right thing. So in that sense, I respect him. I always have at least a modicum of respect for people who do what they genuinely believe to be the best course of action. It's just unfortunate that he was sooooo wrong and that he was around in a society that was ripe for some nut like him to step in a cause a lot of problems. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending his actions at all and I would have been violently opposed to him if I was around at that time.
 
Hitler was charazmatic but he was not the head man in charge. IMO the SS was in charge and he was their puppet.

I personally believe the occult thing was their driving force so it has total relevance IMO

"Occult" is esoteric science and just like regular science it can be used for evil or good.


Here is a link for you at from a skeptics website about it

Were Hitler and the Nazis obsessed with the occult?
 
"The swastika is tilted to the left to signify the following of the left hand path as far as I am aware."

Depends on your take on what the "left hand path" really means. The term has been distorted and is not really a reflection of anything negative. It certainly should not be assoicated with the nazi's.

The whole idea of the left hand path is something I gravitate towards..but at the end of the day I sort of think the whole docotemy here is a load of BS..who here is really that black or white?

The whole nazi party was just insane..they were obcessed with the vedas and based on certain interpretations they believed that the solar system had been populated at one point by some aryan acenstors of theirs and therefore they had the rightful ownership of it all..they believed that if they went off into space they would find all these weird technologies etc from long ago that they had the right to claim. This is why they were the first ones to be working on a space progrom..it is no wonder that they had the most advanced scientists in the field and were given a "get of of free card" after the war and just brought over to the US to keep on working on what was to later become NASA.

These people believed they had the right to claim the solar system as their own..thats not what the left hand path is about..its just what stupid arrogance and ego is about.
 
anrchy said:
I thought we were talking about whether or not Religious anti-gay activists had homosexual tendencies or not, and how religion can cause such things by repression.

For the record, nothing I said was anti-gay, I dont take any anti-gay position, and hope that no one was offended in the process of calling out Eliyahu's promiscuous activities.

So, HYPER SPACEFOOL, since my knowledge on de-cyphering codes in the bible is lacking (and yours seem educated) I am interested in anything you would say about ---> post #243.

Man this thread is awesome, just wish I had more knowledge about some stuff, cause you guys will go on a tangent I have no clue about. But am learning =)
Ahhh... the whole 'you can read into anything and make your own film out of any remotely vague source material' thing. I liked your tallies about the amount of definitions for those well worn words a lot, though Ancient Hebrew is not quite as awash with multiple definitions as modern English. (Unless Jamie's clean up changed the numbering, I guess this is the post you are referring to?)

I suppose I briefly acknowledged this in a post or two... but I will state it plainly. You are correct IMO. People are great at finding patterns where there may not have been any, and they are really freaking awesome at seeing whatever it is that they want to see.

But, I submit that this is not a strike against Qabbalah, but rather a recognition that these folks knew this about us, and used it to their advantage. As I said, the lore is that anyone looking into the Torah (the extended name of G*d) will see their OWN story there. We are stuck with Moses' story (as tweaked by time and culture) for the most part. And, while it is a fascinating book (most influential of all time)... it is not my story per se.

Qabbalah allows you to dig into this same data set and come up with gems that speak directly to you and your current level. It also ensures that Jews will find different truths there than the goyim.

Personally, I have found that anything can be used as a divination tool for these same reasons. I know 7 systems of astrology... and they all work. They use different constellations, measure different cycles, and some have little or no connection to the actual stars and their patterns whatsoever... but they all manage to describe me, my family, and friends in a way that rings true. Tarot cards work... every deck I have tried, whatever cards they choose to include. The I Ching works. Palm reading , tea leaves, retina analysis, handwriting analysis... this stuff all works.

But so does opening up the nearest book to any page and pointing at a line. In fact, think about anything you want insight into with your eyes closed while in an unfamiliar environment or on a bus or train etc. & then open your eyes... the first few things you glance at will be related to your subject in some fashion. The human brain is awesome like that.

Just because it may be a product of our imposing our desires for certain patterns onto what may be a random data set... doesn't make it any less useful. And, a case can be made for the craft in certain sets of data. The wisdom of the I Ching is not merely random. It mirrors the 64 codons of the DNA and is mathematically perfect. Besides, the traditional readings contain millennia of Chinese aphorisms and knowledge. The Torah is like this for a Qabbalist... only orders of magnitude bigger and with secret knowledge of how to become a prophet embedded in it.

Take it or leave it... but them's my 2c. Love the tweak on my username... might have to go with that for a while. ;)
 
Eliyahu said:
anrchy said:
I thought we were talking about whether or not Religious anti-gay activists had homosexual tendencies or not, and how religion can cause such things by repression.

For the record, nothing I said was anti-gay, I dont take any anti-gay position, and hope that no one was offended in the process of calling out Eliyahu's promiscuous activities.

So, HYPER SPACEFOOL, since my knowledge on de-cyphering codes in the bible is lacking (and yours seem educated) I am interested in anything you would say about ---> post #243.

Man this thread is awesome, just wish I had more knowledge about some stuff, cause you guys will go on a tangent I have no clue about. But am learning =)


Thanks for openin' er' back up Jamie!!


Just to clarify bible codes and kabbalah are really not the same thing...Kabbalah is a more of a metaphorical system than a true code.

Bible code was a thing that claimed to spell out the future and current events to some degree, to my knowledge.

As exciting as it sounds I believe the bible code thing was pretty well debunct.
because they did similar things with books like war and peace.

Actually, Gematria and other cryptology tools have been a part of Qabbalah since there were books on the subject. The Ari, Moshe Cordevero and all of their contemporaries used this stuff. I would say that Bible Codes are a subset of Qabbalah... a branch of a much larger practice which includes all manner of esoteric information.

See my post above as to why being able to analyze codes in War & Peace in no way diminishes the truths to be found in using such codes to unlock the Torah.
 
Hyperspace Fool said:
See my post above as to why being able to analyze codes in War & Peace in no way diminishes the truths to be found in using such codes to unlock the Torah.

Then see the movie Pi as to why you shouldn't program a computer to decode the Torah for you. :p
 
I wanted to weigh in on the Occult topic briefly.

Occult comes from the Roman idea of "hidden knowledge." Thus, any esoteric school of thought, any secret knowledge, any rare practice even could be considered occult.

While the term tends to smack of cults (it contains the word) and sketchy magikal beliefs ala Crowley et. al., technically even intelligence agencies are occult groups. Qabbalah is generally classified as occult, often because of the whole medieval perception of Qabbalists as wizards.

The Occult that Hitler and Company were obsessed with was of a wide variety. It was a mix of Viking / Norse legends (he was a member of the Thule Society), Hindu Vedas, Zoroastrianism, Qabbalah, Egyptology and the late 19th century occultism that informed characters like Crowley and Madame Blavatsky. Basically these nuts thought the Germanic people were the Aryans... Persians basically. The Aryans were a group of light skinned people who came out of the Caucus mountains and conquered Persia, Afghanistan and Northern India. The Vedas are said to be their work.

Due to linguistic connections between European languages and Sanskrit, many languages are now called Indo-European, and the idea of a proto-culture is not out of the question. There are still people who teach that the Vedas are the Germanic people's heritage. As well as people who think it is the Slavs who are the original Aryan Vedic Empire. Some even suggest that it is the Celtic people who are the OG Aryans.

Anyway, if you ever saw the Indiana Jones movies, you will be familiar with the occultist aspirations of the Nazis. They actually did send people searching for magical artifacts, the Ark of the Covenant, the Spear of Longinus, lost cities... lost continents even. Google Thule Society, Vril Society, Maria Orsic, Vedic Empire and other related stuff. Maria Orsic is a very compelling character in the formation of the Nazi inner circle. A very beautiful and intelligent woman who was about as occult as you can get without turning into a Disney character.

This stuff is deep, and well documented. If you have even a remote interest in it, you will see that not just the Nazis, but most of the purported power players who claimed outwardly to be good Christians... were really serious occultists. This includes the Freemasons and the various splinter groups. (This is why so much Illuminati stuff comes up when you google these things) Masonry is all about the occult. It is not a Christian faith, but goes back to Ancient Egypt... or so the story goes anyway. The fact that most of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons is something that people should know, though.

I will end this here, as these occult threads tend to tread on the very strict anti-CT policy we have going here at the Nexus. I think the Mods will recognize that I only brought up these "secret societies" in the context of establishing the Nazis as occultists.

All the best my peeps
HF
 
HF thank you for that illumination.... I'm sure the MODS will recognizee that we weren't going down a CT road with this stuff. Anyway I think this is a good point in the thread to put the discussion about Nazi's and sexual prefrences to rest.

So on with the thread!!!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

I am now curius about this.....

How many athiests are open to the Idea of aliens? My grandfather was such a person. He always thought religion was pure hogwash but he loved to talk about how aliens might exist...

In my mind the two issues are identical. Aliens can conceal there existence just as God does.

Basically what I'm getting at is I would like to hear from any athiests who believe in aliens but not in God..

OR anything else relavant to the thread.....
 
Crazyhorse said:
Hyperspace Fool said:
See my post above as to why being able to analyze codes in War & Peace in no way diminishes the truths to be found in using such codes to unlock the Torah.

Then see the movie Pi as to why you shouldn't program a computer to decode the Torah for you. :p


LOL Iv'e seen it.... I like requim for a dream better though..
 
I'm agnostic about aliens. But I do think they are very likely. I guess the difference for me between aliens and god is that we know aliens are possible since here we are. It was possible on this planet for life to form, so I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible elsewhere. And when you take into account the sheer size of the observable universe it really comes down to "just how unlikely was it for life to form on earth". It could be astronomically unlikely, and we really are the only life in the universe. Or it could be slightly less unlikely and the universe could be teeming with life. Who knows. But we certainly know life can come to exist on planets, and we can see plenty of other planets out there. that gives aliens an edge over god for me.
 
Garyp88 said:
I'm agnostic about aliens. But I do think they are very likely. I guess the difference for me between aliens and god is that we know aliens are possible since here we are. It was possible on this planet for life to form, so I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible elsewhere. And when you take into account the sheer size of the observable universe it really comes down to "just how unlikely was it for life to form on earth". It could be astronomically unlikely, and we really are the only life in the universe. Or it could be slightly less unlikely and the universe could be teeming with life. Who knows. But we certainly know life can come to exist on planets, and we can see plenty of other planets out there. that gives aliens an edge over god for me.


Well from what I have seen God is an alien, the most advanced E.T life form in the multiverse.

So IMO that kind of changes the dynamics of the whole idea of god to something more believable than the image of some old bearded guy sitting on a cloud wearing a toga or whatever.
 
Garyp88 said:
I'm agnostic about aliens. But I do think they are very likely. I guess the difference for me between aliens and god is that we know aliens are possible since here we are. It was possible on this planet for life to form, so I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible elsewhere. And when you take into account the sheer size of the observable universe it really comes down to "just how unlikely was it for life to form on earth". It could be astronomically unlikely, and we really are the only life in the universe. Or it could be slightly less unlikely and the universe could be teeming with life. Who knows. But we certainly know life can come to exist on planets, and we can see plenty of other planets out there. that gives aliens an edge over god for me.
Even if the formation of life was a ridiculously improbable thing (the abundance of life in extreme environments like volcanic vents at the ocean floor seems to argue against this)... but even if... life would still be rather plentiful when you realize just how many galaxies there are, and how long 15 billion years really is.

Of course, life in other galaxies (or even in distant parts of our own) would seem to have the formidable obstacle of extreme distances to contend with. If you are only considering material, human-ish lifeforms coming here in physical ships, this certainly does narrow the field for human/alien contact. But we can not really speculate about the technology of more advanced species with much accuracy.

I think that chimpanzees in the Congo might not be able to comprehend our own ability to circumnavigate the globe with relative ease... and certainly will have no understanding of hypersonic jet flight.

It is within reason to assume that life in the Universe could be 1000x more advanced than we are to chimps...

I believe in alien life. I also believe that the Earth has been visited... regularly. I am even leaning towards the idea that humanity has some alien genetics or influence making us at least part alien to the natural development of this planet.

Do I have solid evidence of this? NO.

But I do have anecdotal experiences which confirm this for me including what I am pretty sure are close encounters with aliens. (not including drug induced entity contact which I also feel are likely to be alien intelligences)

Thus, I am fairly well a gnostic believer on this topic.

I think it worth mentioning again that belief in aliens is itself a type of theism. This tends to get ignored, but there a number of theistic conceptions of gods as being ETs.

This doesn't just include the various UFO Religions UFO religion - Wikipedia like Scientology and Rael-ism but is a basic tenant of even Mormonism where they see G*d as a being living on a distant planet.

In my mind, nearly all religions talk about aliens whether they acknowledge it or not. The various polytheistic gods and devas, angels, demons, devils, rakshasas, djinn etc. are all, to a one, said to not originate on the Earth. Most religions claim they were created elsewhere in the Heavens. Not from Earth = Extra Terrestrial.

By this simple logic, Jehovah himself is clearly an ET. You can`t be from the Earth if you created it.

Personally, I find the Zecharia Sitchin concepts of alien gods to be compelling. He may have made some mistakes, but there is a wealth of good stuff in his books even if you toss out the idea of Nibiru as the 12th planet and all that stuff. The overwhelming fact that every "mythology" on the planet describes fairly well the same basic set of flaming chariot flying, vimana driving, powerful weapon wielding, imperfect and morally ambiguous divine beings that unanimously come from the stars... is a fairly substantial heap of circumstantial evidence.

If you follow the hit Ancient Aliens TV Show (I hate to bring it up), they at least do a decent job of invoking the Erich Von Danniken ancient astronaut theory... which has enough basis in archaeological record to be worth considering seriously. The abundance of truly ancient ruins that are unexplainable, with sheer blocks of granite and diorite weighing 200 tons or more... built deep into what we call the Stone Age... well, it makes you think.

Having visited many of the more inexplicable of these ruins myself, I will just say that being there only substantiates the wild ideas about these ruins by leaving you with the clear understanding that primitive people did not build these sites. Even the height of human megalithic civilizations pale next to those truly ancient sites. The fact is that the oldest ruins we know of are the most astounding... this is not something that lends itself to a typical learn-as-you-go progression. It smacks of an intact culture coming here fully formed, and then a gradual degeneration as the knowledge of the original people is lost over time.

Our best stone masons stand awed when presented with the intricate perfection of the blocks at Puma Punku. The perfect angles and "still sharp enough to cut you" 90 degree edges of inlaid designs that fit together like leggos, and are identical to each other down to the millimeter... suggest that whoever built those modular diorite blocks could melt the stone down to a liquid, pour it into a mold, and crank out a large number of identical building blocks... in a time when cavemen were still hunting mammoth with wooden spears tipped with chipped rock.

As usual, I seem to have rambled on a bit. I guess I will stop here, and let you all have your says on this fascinating topic.
 
HYPERSPACE FOOL...

In the immortal words of led zepplin....

"Ramble on baby."
---
I dig your ramblin' ways
 
Hyperspace Fool said:
Garyp88 said:
I'm agnostic about aliens. But I do think they are very likely. I guess the difference for me between aliens and god is that we know aliens are possible since here we are. It was possible on this planet for life to form, so I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible elsewhere. And when you take into account the sheer size of the observable universe it really comes down to "just how unlikely was it for life to form on earth". It could be astronomically unlikely, and we really are the only life in the universe. Or it could be slightly less unlikely and the universe could be teeming with life. Who knows. But we certainly know life can come to exist on planets, and we can see plenty of other planets out there. that gives aliens an edge over god for me.
Even if the formation of life was a ridiculously improbable thing (the abundance of life in extreme environments like volcanic vents at the ocean floor seems to argue against this)... but even if... life would still be rather plentiful when you realize just how many galaxies there are, and how long 15 billion years really is.

Of course, life in other galaxies (or even in distant parts of our own) would seem to have the formidable obstacle of extreme distances to contend with. If you are only considering material, human-ish lifeforms coming here in physical ships, this certainly does narrow the field for human/alien contact. But we can not really speculate about the technology of more advanced species with much accuracy.

I think that chimpanzees in the Congo might not be able to comprehend our own ability to circumnavigate the globe with relative ease... and certainly will have no understanding of hypersonic jet flight.

It is within reason to assume that life in the Universe could be 1000x more advanced than we are to chimps...

I believe in alien life. I also believe that the Earth has been visited... regularly. I am even leaning towards the idea that humanity has some alien genetics or influence making us at least part alien to the natural development of this planet.

Do I have solid evidence of this? NO.

But I do have anecdotal experiences which confirm this for me including what I am pretty sure are close encounters with aliens. (not including drug induced entity contact which I also feel are likely to be alien intelligences)

Thus, I am fairly well a gnostic believer on this topic.

I think it worth mentioning again that belief in aliens is itself a type of theism. This tends to get ignored, but there a number of theistic conceptions of gods as being ETs.

This doesn't just include the various UFO Religions UFO religion - Wikipedia like Scientology and Rael-ism but is a basic tenant of even Mormonism where they see G*d as a being living on a distant planet.

In my mind, nearly all religions talk about aliens whether they acknowledge it or not. The various polytheistic gods and devas, angels, demons, devils, rakshasas, djinn etc. are all, to a one, said to not originate on the Earth. Most religions claim they were created elsewhere in the Heavens. Not from Earth = Extra Terrestrial.

By this simple logic, Jehovah himself is clearly an ET. You can`t be from the Earth if you created it.

Personally, I find the Zecharia Sitchin concepts of alien gods to be compelling. He may have made some mistakes, but there is a wealth of good stuff in his books even if you toss out the idea of Nibiru as the 12th planet and all that stuff. The overwhelming fact that every "mythology" on the planet describes fairly well the same basic set of flaming chariot flying, vimana driving, powerful weapon wielding, imperfect and morally ambiguous divine beings that unanimously come from the stars... is a fairly substantial heap of circumstantial evidence.

If you follow the hit Ancient Aliens TV Show (I hate to bring it up), they at least do a decent job of invoking the Erich Von Danniken ancient astronaut theory... which has enough basis in archaeological record to be worth considering seriously. The abundance of truly ancient ruins that are unexplainable, with sheer blocks of granite and diorite weighing 200 tons or more... built deep into what we call the Stone Age... well, it makes you think.

Having visited many of the more inexplicable of these ruins myself, I will just say that being there only substantiates the wild ideas about these ruins by leaving you with the clear understanding that primitive people did not build these sites. Even the height of human megalithic civilizations pale next to those truly ancient sites. The fact is that the oldest ruins we know of are the most astounding... this is not something that lends itself to a typical learn-as-you-go progression. It smacks of an intact culture coming here fully formed, and then a gradual degeneration as the knowledge of the original people is lost over time.

Our best stone masons stand awed when presented with the intricate perfection of the blocks at Puma Punku. The perfect angles and "still sharp enough to cut you" 90 degree edges of inlaid designs that fit together like leggos, and are identical to each other down to the millimeter... suggest that whoever built those modular diorite blocks could melt the stone down to a liquid, pour it into a mold, and crank out a large number of identical building blocks... in a time when cavemen were still hunting mammoth with wooden spears tipped with chipped rock.

As usual, I seem to have rambled on a bit. I guess I will stop here, and let you all have your says on this fascinating topic.

Life existing in extreme conditions doesn't really help when discussing the likelyhood of life arising on a planet. All it tells us is that once life exists it can survive/adapt in extreme conditions. But that doesn't help us with how probable it was for it to have came to exist in the first place. Our best theory on it just now seems to be that life arose from non-living material through abiogenesis (another theory would be "god placed life here"). I'm inclined to think it is not all that unlikely in the grand scheme of things, since experiments have already been done showing that the building blocks of life can be synthesized in situations somewhat similar to how earth was billions of years ago (I'm not particularly well versed in the theory of abiogenesis tbh).

I know how big the universe is, or rather I know in as much as anyone can know since when it gets to sizes like that our brains generally have difficulty visualizing it in any meaningful way. But I've looked in awe at the Hubble ultra deep field pictures, those are quite a good humbling reminder of how big it is out there. Then of course there is a lot of work that seems to point to there being more than one universe, so really even our universe could just be a speck within a larger scale similar to how Earth is just a speck in the universe. I find the proposition "there are no aliens" would require much more justification than "there are aliens". Seems ludicrous that we would be all there is.

As for aliens having visited Earth. I'm more sceptical about that. I have seen some of the ruins you are talking about, and they are baffling. I can't remember which specific one it was, but it was mammoth pieces of rock perfectly cut. It made absolutely no sense that it had been done by people from that time. If there is no explanation for these things then I guess aliens is as good a guess as any, but I don't think I'm convinced that's the case. Would it not make sense that if these aliens were happy to leave baffling things like that they would also have left other traces of themselves or of their technology, instead of just coming down and cutting a bunch of rocks and then buggering off again :D

Still, it only took us a few billion years to get from single celled organisms to the self-aware apes that we are now. And it seems quite likely that if interstellar travel is ever going to be achieved by our race that it could very well happen in the next century or two (I believe we recently found out that there are things that travel faster than the speed of light?). So it's not that much of a push to believe that somewhere else in the universe there are other races that followed a somewhat similar (or even completely different) path to us and arrived at interstellar travel before the time we had even reached single celled organisms.

Would you feel like going into your non-drug induced anecdotal evidence? If you do I won't treat it as something to try and refute, I'll just treat it as an interesting story and leave it at that :)
 
Garyp88 said:
Life existing in extreme conditions doesn't really help when discussing the likelyhood of life arising on a planet. All it tells us is that once life exists it can survive/adapt in extreme conditions. But that doesn't help us with how probable it was for it to have came to exist in the first place. Our best theory on it just now seems to be that life arose from non-living material through abiogenesis (another theory would be "god placed life here"). I'm inclined to think it is not all that unlikely in the grand scheme of things, since experiments have already been done showing that the building blocks of life can be synthesized in situations somewhat similar to how earth was billions of years ago (I'm not particularly well versed in the theory of abiogenesis tbh).

I know how big the universe is, or rather I know in as much as anyone can know since when it gets to sizes like that our brains generally have difficulty visualizing it in any meaningful way. But I've looked in awe at the Hubble ultra deep field pictures, those are quite a good humbling reminder of how big it is out there. Then of course there is a lot of work that seems to point to there being more than one universe, so really even our universe could just be a speck within a larger scale similar to how Earth is just a speck in the universe. I find the proposition "there are no aliens" would require much more justification than "there are aliens". Seems ludicrous that we would be all there is.

As for aliens having visited Earth. I'm more sceptical about that. I have seen some of the ruins you are talking about, and they are baffling. I can't remember which specific one it was, but it was mammoth pieces of rock perfectly cut. It made absolutely no sense that it had been done by people from that time. If there is no explanation for these things then I guess aliens is as good a guess as any, but I don't think I'm convinced that's the case. Would it not make sense that if these aliens were happy to leave baffling things like that they would also have left other traces of themselves or of their technology, instead of just coming down and cutting a bunch of rocks and then buggering off again :D

Still, it only took us a few billion years to get from single celled organisms to the self-aware apes that we are now. And it seems quite likely that if interstellar travel is ever going to be achieved by our race that it could very well happen in the next century or two (I believe we recently found out that there are things that travel faster than the speed of light?). So it's not that much of a push to believe that somewhere else in the universe there are other races that followed a somewhat similar (or even completely different) path to us and arrived at interstellar travel before the time we had even reached single celled organisms.

Would you feel like going into your non-drug induced anecdotal evidence? If you do I won't treat it as something to try and refute, I'll just treat it as an interesting story and leave it at that :)
Life existing in extreme conditions is not proof that it could arise in such conditions, but it certainly doesn't do the idea any disservice. In fact, there is a branch of abiogenesis theory that holds that deep sea vents, or alkaline hydrothermal vents, are the source and origin of life on Earth.

Personally, I find the idea of abiogenesis or biopoiesis to be a ludicrous concept. If life existing in extreme conditions is no proof that it could arise in the extreme conditions of other planets... how much less credible is the idea that it "spontaneously generated from amino acids?" This is not science IMHO. It is rank speculation sprinkled with some scientific sounding concepts. Just because we can conceive of conditions on the Earth that might create amino acids, it is a leap to proto-cells or RNA, and a huge leap from that to life.

Since nothing of this sort has been able to be replicated in a laboratory, I consider this theory to be about as scientific as any Sci-Fi novel I have read... less so maybe because a lot of sci-fi stuff does eventually become real in laboratory experiments, and abiogenesis is still extremely unlikely to be proven. Geo-synchronus Orbit Satellites, Robots, A.I., The Space Station, Deep Sea Submersibles, Walking On the Moon... etc etc. These all started out as science fiction. And yet, with laboratories capable of replicating conditions well beyond the Eoarchean era of the Earth, as far as I know, no one is even claiming to be close to recreating life. Like you, this is not my field of expertise, but I am relatively sure something along these lines would be international news of the highest order... and not something only so-called experts would be aware of.

I think that the idea of panspermia has more evidence to back it up than abiogenesis. Panspermia is the concept that life (or the catalyst for it) arrived here on Earth from somewhere else. This is not all that speculative really, as we know that spores can survive in space and survive reentry... as can such little animals as the Tardigrades Tardigrade - Wikipedia (the first animal to survive in the vacuum of space). Furthermore, we have found fungi and spores in samples of asteroids that came to Earth as meteorites.

As for the aliens buggering off thing... I can only speculate. But I can think of a number of very plausible scenarios. Off the top of my head, I would say they might have come here to mine for something they needed (gold, tin, platinum) and built their mining and processing sites as efficiently as possible from the materials in the region. When they had what they came for, they left and didn't bother to destroy their sites, but took all their tools and valuables with them. It is also possible that they (or another group of aliens) decided to create humanity as a genetic hybrid experiment, and even later chose to share certain knowledge like building, agriculture and such as they felt we were ready for it.

I could just as easily come up with a dozen other plausible answers to the mystery.

BTW I believe the current line on the FTL particles is that it was a calculation error on the part of the scientists. Who knows? Maybe it is a cover up... I don't know which would be worse, though, the idea that the highest paid scientists and brightest minds of our generation are clumsy morons who can't do simple math & chose to call a press conference about something they didn't even bother to proof... or the idea that some people don't want the world to know about certain scientific advances. (This situation gave me a flashback to the Cold Fusion hoopla back over 20 years ago.)

As far as my sharing my experiences with ETs... I may or may not. Things like this tend to just be fanciful tales to be judged by people who can only remain skeptical. I would never expect anyone to take my word on anything... especially not something that will sound more far fetched to them than anything in any Hollywood film. If I decide to share such experiences, though, it wouldn't be nearly 300 posts into a thread that was supposed to be about the Atheist DMT experience. I would probably need to start a new thread... and in the Nexus, this stuff would definitely be put in the TTLG section (through the looking glass) an area of the Nexus that most of the die-hards here view with open scorn. It was made into an area that doesn't show up in search engines or even active threads so as to keep it from attracting any attention. A lot of threads that were bothering people were shoved there, and any new ones that cross a certain line get moved there as well. Occasionally, people like me will actually start a thread there on purpose and manage to get a few people to engage... but it is basically a ghetto for freaks and weirdos. (not derogatory terms for me)

In all likelihood, I will keep my stories to myself and only share them with people who I know in person and can look into their eyes while explaining it. Even still, I usually don't talk about it... as such stories are a quick way to get people to question your sanity. People who take entheogens generally don't need any other strikes against them in the old "does he need professional help" ledger.

8)
 
HF.....


I can understand your hesitation with sharing your experiences. Believe it or not at one time in my life I vowed to tell no one of my experiences because I knew that only the people who actually were there with me would ever truly understand....

I was however very directly instructed by what ever it is that I commune with during my psychdelic experiences whether it be God, Aliens or my own higher self/ sub conciousness.

They told me to "Write down everything you have seen"

I tried to ignore the command for years but the phrase and the theme of being a writer just kept repeating and repeating until one day I decided to start writing.


I would wager HF that if you wrote a trip report or something abuot E.Ts the MODS would really enjoy it and it would not end up in the "looking glass" section. I think your wise enough to avoid any offensive or CT verbage..

It's one thing when someone starts spouting off about aliens but it's quite another thing for someone to have acually seen aliens first hand, especially in relation to psychedelics...IMO

Just food for thought, I would love to read some of your alien stories. Of course I understand your reluctance as I said.


Also----Good to see the thread is back to it's magical old self again...😁


-E
 
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