Blundering_Novice
Rising Star
Literally banning the word would be silly IMHO. But not being banned doesn't save it from being reviled and frowned upon.
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The "Deem" Thing - It shouldn't bother me, but it does!
- Thread starter idtravlr
- Start date
sayers will get heckled, that's all i have to say about that.
88
Rising Star
deamsterphile said:
This is a seriously flawed argument on many levels.
Words are only specks etc ... so why are you arguing a point about a word if it doesn't mean anything? Words are more than that, and it's ignorant to suggest otherwise.
Obviously words only have power once heard or read ... they are our means of communication - which means sender, message, receiver. Words convey meaning on many levels. You are wilfully ignoring this, and trying to say that people are 'reading it wrong'. If someone doesn't understand what you mean, or isn't receiving the message you intend, then change how you send the message - because hey, it's only words, right? What do you care? So if people here are offended by the use of a certain word, why would you want to use it? To cause offence? Why? If it doesn't matter to you, then don't use the word.
Unless you're black or hispanic, I don't see what qualifies you to suggest that these offensive words you've posted have no meaning. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think they do, and I don't think it's because the people on the receiving end of this kind of language aren't enlightened enough to take it on the chin.
This is a juvenile post, and I'm calling 'BULLSHIT'.
Took the specks right out of my mouth, 88.
Blundering_Novice
Rising Star
88 said:
It's either juvenile, or a bit too futuristic for our current circumstances as a species. Personally, I hope for a day when all of mankind adopts a policy of not getting offended by words of any kind.
88
Rising Star
Blundering_Novice said:
An idealistic point of view, and one that is laudable and optimistic. But it is not only about changing the mindset of those who receive the message, or hear the words - sufficient empathy on the part of the transmitter of the message will also be necessary, no?
My argument here is against someone saying, "if you don't like what I'm saying, that's your problem because you're not evolved or enlightened enough - ie as much as me" which is, as I said, BULLSHIT.
it's tough
you gotta be a zen-like m%^$%f@#$!*r to not get offended.
you gotta be a zen-like m%^$%f@#$!*r to not get offended.
Blundering_Novice
Rising Star
88 said:
We are in agreement.
Every time you speak, you create a mandala.
Haven't the elves taught you that?? :twisted:
Haven't the elves taught you that?? :twisted:
Blundering_Novice said:
Yea, unless you're black or hispanic (as already mentioned) or a woman, it's highly unlikely that you'll take offense to these words, as dick carries virtually none of the weight of the others. Nigger, especially in america, has hundreds of years of history associated with it, so for you to claim that it's just a word and can be divorced from social or historical context is highly ignorant, imo. This is the kind of argument that can only be made by someone existing outside of the cultural circle that the true associations of this word actually affect.
One of the things that has been very baffling to me over the past ten years or so is the gradual rise in use of the N word by hispanics, asians, and other ethnic minority groups that have appropriated this word for their own use. Again, examining this culturally, it makes no sense and shows nothing more than a desire to be identified with what is commonly seen as "the cool minority" within America. Black culture drives much of what is fashionable in large swathes of American culture, so while other ethnicities use of this word in that context can be understood, I maintain that it is still incredibly ignorant and nonsensical when viewed through a cross-cultural lens.
Blundering_Novice
Rising Star
I see it as 'reclamation' in many instances. Taking the hurt out of the word. Besides, many Latinos have African blood in them. I, who is AFAIK 100% Northern European, have been called 'nigga' by black folks on several occasions. I have yet to return the compliment in kind. White guys also call each other 'nigga' when no black folks are around. It is not outside the realm of possibility that the word will be completely defanged in our lifetime. Calling someone a 'faggot' or describing something as 'gay' now seems to have nothing to do with sexuality, either. ( I was quite aware of this before the South Park episode.)
That being said, I agree that its cruel, insensitive, and potentially risky to refer to anyone as a 'nigga' that may not like being referred to as such by you or SWIY. It's a crap shoot to say the least.
That being said, I agree that its cruel, insensitive, and potentially risky to refer to anyone as a 'nigga' that may not like being referred to as such by you or SWIY. It's a crap shoot to say the least.
The N word is not something that can be reclaimed by anyone outside of the black community. That means, even if you have african blood but are self-identified hispanic, this term is not for you to reclaim. If you are white, you have no business uttering this word, imo. The fact that you have been called "nigga" by a couple black people doesn't mean anything, I went through the DC public school system and can assure you that the I heard the phrase "let me say what's up to my white niggas" on more than one occasion. Yet, I labor under no delusions as to what the response would be were I to use the term (thanks to my nappy hair and other features thanks to my spanish/turkish origins I often get asked if I'm mixed) and feel that it is reprehensible to use such language in any circumstance. There is no compliment for you to return in kind as you are not black. White people calling each other nigga when black people aren't around should show you how far we are from defanging this word (if we were close to defanging this term they would use it openly and not solely in private, fearing retaliation by members of the black community). Those white people are ignorant and should not be using the term with an "a" or "er", they have nothing to reclaim and I maintain that they use the word out of ignorance.Blundering_Novice said:
Calling someone a faggot or gay is EXACTLY the same problem. For those members of the straight community, it's easy to say that "oh, these words have no relationsip to sexuality, they're merely negative terms with no sexual overtones". THIS IS NOT THE CASE, you are espousing ignorance by saying this. This is an uneducated and incorrect view on this. Talk to homosexuals, this IS a derogatory term. The fact that you think these words are innocuous makes me sick to my stomach. Yes, southpark makes some good points, but I'm sorry, you can't arbitrarily decide that these words are not offensive to homosexuals. As with everything else you've said, you are not in these groups that are being trivialized and degraded through the use of these terms. Your statements embody the type of ignorance that allows racism/sexism to remain alive and well. I find the fact that you are blind to this and even defensive of the use of such terms to be bothe troubling and alarming. This is the kind of rationalization that pervades much racist/sexist thought and actions. Just because you think these terms are not bigoted (despite not being a member of any of the groups they belittle) does not remove the inherent bigotry in these terms.
Language is incredibly important. Words are the primary way in which we communicate and even think. Words have aesthetic value and cultural significance. The way we speak is reflective of the way we live and how we think. If one used the word "nigger," that would tell me much about their attitude, even if not intended in a derogatory manner. The fact of the matter is that it's a slang term, which means that it would have to derive its symbolism from popular usage and regard, and it just so happens that most on this site share a mutually poor regard for the term and do not use it for some fairly well-stated reasons. If you use it, don't be surprised if this community isn't very receptive.