The official Ron Paul thread

[RayOfLight]

On the other thread when I was asked how Ron paul would do what he promises to do and I did reply, the only one I couldn't comment on is how exactly he would end the federal reserve.

Ron paul says he would end all the unjustified and illegal wars perpetrated by the usa and acknowledge the fact that the terrorist threat is actually created by the US meddling in other nations affairs, that right there is reason enough to vote for the guy as far as I'm concerned. There is nothing lofty or undo able about it, PULL TROOPS OUT , SEND THEM HOME . PERIOD. SIMPLE ...I dunno how I can be any more clear than that.

He would also end the drug war witch would save your country god knows how much money in throwing drug users in jail, that right there should be enough reason to vote for him again. For the life of me I just don't understand what it is about that that is so hard to comprehend.

alpha I find your lack of comprehension on this disturbing.

Joedirt, I appreciate your standing up for me and truth be told in a lot of my posts I'm under criticism from alpha , sometimes snozzleberry questions what I have to say but that is fine. I still embrace the both of them as nexus brothers.

 

[RayOfLight]

I'd like to elaborate on my position on this. Even if the usa had an unlimited supply of money and could do whatever they wanted forever I still would not agree with them going to other countries and hitting anyone they want with smart bombs and depleted uranium rounds. That is an absolute abomination. I don't care what kind of fighting they are doing among themselves. america should stay the hell out of it.

Its also an abomination to throw someone in jail for growing a plant.


until those hanus things are addressed and basic freedom and decency is restored I really don't think you should be thinking about other issues.

Ron Paul is the only one thats going to deal with this hence hes the obvious choice .

Snozzleberry In another thread you were admitting that the US has been taken over by corporations, Its painfully obvious to anyone paying attention. Ron Paul is the only candidate that acknowledges that the entire system has been corrupted, hes the only one talking about it.

I just don't see how anyone with a rational mind would vote for anyone else. especially when its so close to the collapse of the Us empire and you guys are gonna be standing in breadlines.

just think about how much money would be saved if there were no wars overseas and no war on drugs.

The founding fathers wanted wars to be declared by congress, now youve got one lone asshole running around spending the country into oblivion starting wars with whoever he feels like.

I'm sure there are other issues you guys think are important, medical care, student loans, who knows what you guys care about but as far as I'm concerned you have to learn to walk before you can run, the big issues need to come first. STOP KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE AND LOCKING INNOCENT PEOPLE UP FOR STUPID SHIT LIKE GROWING POT.


SHEESH , I'm done talking about it, if I haven't made my point in this post I give up .

 

[RayOfLight]

I would just add that if bush could go to war Ron paul could stop war. why would a president not be able to reverse something like that ?

same thing with the war on drugs. Even if it couldn't be instantly abolished it sure as hell could be incrementally worked on.

wars that serve private corporations are abominable. This issue must be addressed.

 

[jamie]

"I would just add that if bush could go to war Ron paul could stop war. why would a president not be able to reverse something like that ?"

Assasination I guess. I think corperations are the real government, the president has some say but it is not above those of big corperations.

I guess it all depends on how much of what Bush did helped out large corperations compared to how much someone like Ron Paul would help them out. Ron Paul was blackballed from the media, if he was president I wonder how they would try to shut him up?

 

[RayOfLight]

I was just listening to a terrence talk about this today. he was talking talking about how magic is done, he says that the universe rewards courage, you state your agenda and the universe opens the way. the dark drop into the abyss is revealed to have a feather bed at the bottom. I agree with this idea and I've seen it happen in my own life. If we just say ' well hes just gonna get assassinated if hes elected so why bother ' I think we're giving our potential world changing power away. I agree with you fractal , the corporations seem to have the world by the balls, I would just say that we should go for theirs and see what happens. We might be surprised.

 

[jamie]

I was just listening to a terrence talk about this today. he was talking talking about how magic is done, he says that the universe rewards courage, you state your agenda and the universe opens the way. the dark drop into the abyss is revealed to have a feather bed at the bottom. I agree with this idea and I've seen it happen in my own life. If we just say ' well hes just gonna get assassinated if hes elected so why bother ' I think we're giving our potential world changing power away. I agree with you fractal , the corporations seem to have the world by the balls, I would just say that we should go for theirs and see what happens. We might be surprised.

yeah I agree.

 

[Mitakuye Oyasin]

Ray, I appreciate your enthusiasm. Many of us here on the Nexus in the US have already looked at Ron Paul, what he has to say, what he has done and who he is and have decided that he is not worth voting for. I hope you can appreciate that point of view. Changing big things is not as easy as it might seem. You need to get lots of other people to side with your POV even if you are the President in order to change anything. The fact is that there are so many politicians and so many mega-corporations who are making money off of the war on drugs and off the US military and their presence in other countries and how the US banking system works and off of Wall Street that each and every one is an enormous battle into itself to change in any meaningful way. Also, most of the people in congress that a President must get on their side in order to change these big bad things are in one way or another making money from these big bad things or from the people behind them. Politicians love to make promises that get the general public excited, promises to change things and to improve things. The reality is that most of the time it is nearly impossible to actually change or improve things in this mega-corporate political world.

Since this was originally a post about the new legislation to legalize Cannabis at the Federal level, lets put our support into that. Since the squeaky wheel gets the grease, I suggest everyone and their friends start applying weekly pressure to their representatives to support this bill and to vote yes on it. The science is on our side - Cannabis is ancient medicine that keeps getting proven to have lots of medicinal benefits for humans. The Cannabis prohibition has already been proven not to work and to cost lots of money to local, state and federal government to attempt to enforce. The added benefit is that if this bill passes it should also allow for the cultivation of industrial Hemp. Sign petitions of support for this bill and flood your representatives offices with emails, letters, calls, anything you can think of to pressure them to support it. Thanks.

 

[a1pha]

Since this was originally a post about the new legislation to legalize Cannabis at the Federal level, lets put our support into that. Since the squeaky wheel gets the grease, I suggest everyone and their friends start applying weekly pressure to their representatives to support this bill and to vote yes on it. The science is on our side - Cannabis is ancient medicine that keeps getting proven to have lots of medicinal benefits for humans. The Cannabis prohibition has already been proven not to work and to cost lots of money to local, state and federal government to attempt to enforce. The added benefit is that if this bill passes it should also allow for the cultivation of industrial Hemp. Sign petitions of support for this bill and flood your representatives offices with emails, letters, calls, anything you can think of to pressure them to support it. Thanks.

This.

Well said, Mitakuye Oyasin.

 

[christian]

It seems that there were many people way before Terence that were trying to wake up the general population of the USA. Trouble is that too many of them were too busy working or going to church to listen. People are so busy these days, and that's the problem. It seems like Consumerism is a potent weapon against free thinking indeed...and it won't stop untill there's nothing left to consume- because for most people, that is all there is to do in this life, i'm sad to say....:roll:

 

[smokerx]

Snozz you have big problem with your ego you should work on that one first.

 

[elru]

until those hanus things are addressed and basic freedom and decency is restored I really don't think you should be thinking about other issues.

I disagree. The world is full of very many important issues and your comment that we shouldn't think about other things is ridiculous. Do you mean to stay that I should stop my anti-rape activism and instead go campaigning for Ron Paul, to promote a man who I have never even met? Ron Paul is not going to get the schools to provide free self-defense education to women. Ron Paul is not going to get the lights fixed under the train station walkway where people get attacked at night. Instead he wants to end federal funding for Planned Parenthood, a wonderful, affordable resource for women's reproductive heath.

Ron Paul is not some shining beacon of light whom, if elected, will transform the country overnight into a beautiful garden of freedom and liberty. He's a politician, has been for over 30 years, and my faith in politicians is low enough that I would rather do real work with real people than put up fliers for some old rich white man who makes me nice promises.

I'm sure there are other issues you guys think are important, medical care, student loans, who knows what you guys care about but as far as I'm concerned you have to learn to walk before you can run, the big issues need to come first.

Do you realize how offensive this is? Have you ever had a friend slowly die of a treatable medical condition, watching her brain deteriorate from seizure after seizure, because she does not have access medical care? Everyone has different issues that are close to their heart and by all of us working on those issues in our own ways we move the world towards (hopefully) progress. I think that we are more effective activists when we work on things that call to us and I think it is counterproductive to insult people who have chosen another sphere of life to do their work in.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Snozz you have big problem with your ego you should work on that one first.

Please elaborate...I'm glad to work on myself but vague statements like this really don't help me know where I should be focusing my efforts; as such, I feel they serve little purpose. If however, you were to provide constructive criticism, I'm more than happy to listen. I do not think I'm perfect or all important; far from it, so help me help myself. Don't just tell me you think I suck, tell me why.

And remember, in the words of Bob Marley, "While you're pointing fingers, someone else is judging you"

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Ron paul says he would end all the unjustified and illegal wars perpetrated by the usa and acknowledge the fact that the terrorist threat is actually created by the US meddling in other nations affairs, that right there is reason enough to vote for the guy as far as I'm concerned. There is nothing lofty or undo able about it, PULL TROOPS OUT , SEND THEM HOME . PERIOD. SIMPLE ...I dunno how I can be any more clear than that.

How? This is not solely a presidential power. Most of this decision making rests with congress. Corporate interests assure that we will be staying in Iraq...we just built the largest military base/embassy on foreign soil anywhere in the world in Iraq. Do you really think we're going to abandon that? We have military troops stacked up in the kandahar valley, getting blown to bits every day (moreso than anywhere else at present, iirc) specifically to open up a trade route from afghanistan to pakistan for Haliburton to move supplies. Why would we abandon these two projects, nevermind the hundreds of similar undertakings that are also going on? We have a vested interest in continuing these wars and plundering these resources.

He would also end the drug war witch would save your country god knows how much money in throwing drug users in jail, that right there should be enough reason to vote for him again. For the life of me I just don't understand what it is about that that is so hard to comprehend.

This power does not lie with the president either, but also with congress. Ray, i respect your right to an opinion, but your posts reflect an absolute lack of knowledge of American civics. Many Americans also lack this understanding, so it's not overly surprising that you are unaware of the mechanisms by which change happens in our country, but you need to understand that the things you are saying simply cannot happen as you present them.

Ray, as to your points about healthcare, are you aware that the USA could change the national deficit into a surplus solely by nationalizing healthcare? This is an economic fact and is easily found with a simple google search. The majority of Amnericans supported a public option for healthcare, as evidenced by numerous polls, but because the politicians are owned by corporate and financial interests (of which the insurance agencies make up a huge percentage) they ignored the will of the people to ensure the sanctity of the oligarchs.

Lastly, I have a final question for you. Do you know who pays Ron Paul's campaign bills? Do you know who supports him? You talk about him as though he is not supported by special interest groups, corporate interests or PACs...I would suggest you look into this because, afaik, there is no one currently serving in the American political system on the national level who does not get money from these people. The reason for this is that it is impossible to fund campaigns and win election without the significant contributions such organizations are able to make. So when you present Paul as a man of the people, devoid of special interest influence, I believe you are in error.

Again, I commend Ron Paul for supporting this bill and hope that we can achieve some real change in this arena. I'm going to be calling m,y representative again today to urge her to support this measure.

 

[FiorSirtheoir]

The system is not broken, it has been overthrown. The Reconstruction Acts and the nationalization of citizenship is the root of what appears to be a broken system. The 'Acts' are unconstitutional upon their face, Congress does not have the authority to annul states. An unconstitutional act has no statute of limitations, no passage of time can cure them, no subsequent act can cure them, they create no office and no obligation what so ever - as an operation of law it is as if they never existed. With that thought in mind the nationalization of citizenship is a new unconstitutional political body; a new 'office' if you will, every subsequent act from that point forward is a fiction in law - i.e. the Federal Reserve, Social Security, Department of Education, etc...(anything that exceeds the enumerated powers of the trust indenture called the Constitution for the United States of America). I know it maybe difficult, at first, to wrap your head around this jurisprudence, but it is okay, we were never educated in law, not like we should have been.

 

[joedirt]

Well since this is partially about Ron Paul I will throw my two cents in as well.

There are many things he says that I like and things he says I don't like. To be sure this is true of most politicians.

Ray, the other posters are largely right on this issue. The president of the USA is more of a figure head than anything else. Even if Ron Paul was elected you would see that few, if any of his promises were actually delivered upon.
This is because our system is designed to protect against the extremes. In many cases this is good because it keeps the USA from making devastating decisions....we can debate that. However it also keeps us from making fast decisions around things that matter like Global warming....we are one of the only 1st world countries still debating if it is real while the rest of the world has moved on to debating what to do about it.

The USA once had the best system in the world, but like most human endeavors it has been corrupted on almost every level. Corporate interests control just about everything in this country and until we figure out how to solve that problem I don't see many other high level problems actually being solved...pushed aside and kicked down the road..yes, but solved no.

Part of the problem is that we are fed misleading information. Google global warming and you will quickly find plenty of pages that appear to debunk the entire science around it. You will also find plenty of pages claiming it to be real. The only way to have an informed opinion about something like global warming today is to actually dig into the science and this just isn't something most Americans/people will do. I only use global warming because it's an easy example to show the polarization with.

Just like corporate interests determine politics around global warming they also dominate in policies related to the drug war. Conspiracy theories aside for the moment. The DEA has a huge budget and many people earn their living working for them. If the war ended tomorrow those people would be out of jobs...no I don't expect anyone here to cry them a river, but I do think most of us would try to protect our livelihoods if we felt it was under attack. Of course most of us here believe the drug war corruption is far deeper than this....

And lastly I don't even think most politicians are evil. Sarah Palin isn't evil. She's a product of a consumerism society that was kicked of somewhere around the 50s. She is just saying what she believes because she hasn't taken the time to challenge what society has spoon fed her...but I'm quickly digressing.

The younger generations in our countries have been leaning more liberal for decades, yet the policies in our country are still very conservative....the reason is corruption. This is what the American people need to fix first IMHO.

 

[FiorSirtheoir]

Well, sorry guys if i offended you, but i saw on U tube a Video explaining that the United States is a corporation, and not a country. Silly me, if this is in fact incorrect. Silly me if your vote actually does count. but then again i think everyone in British politics is just as bad as each other. And i think this the same for the States. just my views.

-To be honest i believe the version of the U TUBE video,proof, or no proof- because the basic message from the statement is that no matter how much the public agonise with politics, it's still more of the same old lies and deceptions. And if that isn't correct, then please explain why the President of the United States, the highest of the highest, who should be honest and truthful, is the biggest liar of the lot??

- Sorry guys, i'm sticking to my guns on this. I might be wrong about the corporation and the police job actually being to protect the corporation-not the general peoples, but i'm not wrong about the American government and Politics, because it's the same in England and the rest or the world- Lies,false hopes, Lies,False hopes, LIES......
etc....need i go on...?:d


-

What are you talking about? This reads as vague/abstract rants against the system. I'm sorry, but personally I find such rants to be a complete and utter waste as they don't accomplish anything, nor do they pinpoint the problems and structures that propagate them within society. Your post provides absolutely nothing in the realm of concrete information; this is what bothers me. "stick to your guns" all you want, it doesn't actually make a coherent argument. If you're not going to provide real world examples I see no merit in "raging against the machine"...rants against abstract systems of power are pointless.

If you're going to attack the system, why not actually attack the system? Why not point out the incestuous relationships between private industry/government regulators? Why not point out the buddy-system of lobbyists/politicians? Why not discuss the flaws of fractional reserve banking or political assassinations or the IMF/World Bank policies? There are so many concrete and legit discussions that we could have that I simply see no reason to engage in the type of abstraction your posts present.

You present the president as the biggest liar (without citing any evidence); I would posit that that is not correct (there are many more-significant liars in his cabinet, and that's just in the political realm; if we enter into the business realm, there are significantly bigger liars). You claim that you will think what a video tells you rather than engage in critical thought; I find that lamentable. Calling the US a corporation is a misrepresentation...the US merely provides an arena in which and through which corporations can flex their muscle. As to "proving you wrong"...you've stated no facts, no actual points of information...so what is there to prove wrong? Your rhetoric is just as bad as politicians; it presents a bunch of buzz words with no real substance.

Read some Bouvier's 1851, all government is and has been a corporation - co-operaation, cooperation, community, common interest. Don't listen to all that 'patriot mythology', there are grains of truth and fact in them, however the majority are grossly misleading, and the conclusions that are presented are substantially incorrect. The concept of a juridic person has been around for a very long time, it always falls in to the 'law of trust and uses', even if that is the method by which the de facto government are executing there wicked plans, it is still colorable; it is still de facto; it still falls into fraud; it still rests upon unconstitutional acts. All the stuff people rant about, as being the root of the problem, from 1913, 1933, 1934, 1941, 1948, 1972, etc... is all spun about and full of, like I said "grossly misleading, and substantially incorrect" information. I am not trying to throw anyone under the bus, however substantiate what people are claiming to be true - go to the archives and look for yourself, only about 2 to 3% of the information contained in the various archives (Library of Congress, National Archives, various state archives) is available on the internet, and what is on the internet is primarily there to support the propaganda of revisionist history and jurisprudence.

 

[joedirt]

How? Can you present even a scrap of evidence as to how he will accomplish anything he has promised (especially those things that don’t fall under the control of the presidency)? The fact that he promises things he could never hope to deliver makes him exponentially worse than the usual crowd, to my mind, as he is truly preying upon the hopes and ideals of a public that is vastly uninformed as to the political process.

You can apply these statements to any politician. Can you not? Ron paul is certainly no different here. Personally I'd like to see the federal reserve done away with...but how? And I for sure agree about most Americans having little understanding of how our government works. Hell I'm not sure the politicians fully understand it either!

 

[elru]

She's a product of a consumerism society that was kicked of somewhere around the 50s.

American wastefulness can be traced even back to the colonists burning massive amounts of wood for fires because the trees were abundant. England at the time was having a fuel crisis because of cutting down too many trees. Instead of being conservative with wood the colonists burned huge fires, used only the best wood even for window shutters, ect.

 

[joedirt]

She's a product of a consumerism society that was kicked of somewhere around the 50s.

American wastefulness can be traced even back to the colonists burning massive amounts of wood for fires because the trees were abundant. England at the time was having a fuel crisis because of cutting down too many trees. Instead of being conservative with wood the colonists burned huge fires, used only the best wood even for window shutters, ect.

Yeah good point. I was referring to the period after world war II when consumerism was pushed as being patriotic...but your point is spot on. It's not just Americans though...it's people. We can either be a virus to the planet or cure. Currently most of the world is acting like a virus!

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Read some Bouvier's 1851, all government is and has been a corporation - co-operaation, cooperation, community, common interest. Don't listen to all that 'patriot mythology', there are grains of truth and fact in them, however the majority are grossly misleading, and the conclusions that are presented are substantially incorrect. The concept of a juridic person has been around for a very long time, it always falls in to the 'law of trust and uses', even if that is the method by which the de facto government are executing there wicked plans, it is still colorable; it is still de facto; it still falls into fraud; it still rests upon unconstitutional acts. All the stuff people rant about, as being the root of the problem, from 1913, 1933, 1934, 1941, 1948, 1972, etc... is all spun about and full of, like I said "grossly misleading, and substantially incorrect" information. I am not trying to throw anyone under the bus, however substantiate what people are claiming to be true - go to the archives and look for yourself, only about 2 to 3% of the information contained in the various archives (Library of Congress, National Archives, various state archives) is available on the internet, and what is on the internet is primarily there to support the propaganda of revisionist history and jurisprudence.

A minor point but corporation comes from the Latin corporare, meaning body...essentially leading to the same point you make, but just wanted to clarify that. (sorry, I'm a pedant, I can't help it )

As I see it, the issue is not "juridic persons" but rather the rights extended to juridic persons through Supreme Court decisions, which is largely the source of the problems we face today. As far as the dates you throw out, I don't follow. Are you saying that the unions were wrong or that the union busting was wrong? That American socialist ideology was wrong or that the red-scare was wrong? The way it's worded, as the American socialism and union movements are what are currently excluded from history, I assume that's the omission you are referring to and are against the other sides presented in coprorate controlled history. That is something I very much agree with.

Fior, I feel like you have a lot to add but find myself somewhat saddened by the apparent condensing of your post...care to share more?

How? Can you present even a scrap of evidence as to how he will accomplish anything he has promised (especially those things that don’t fall under the control of the presidency)? The fact that he promises things he could never hope to deliver makes him exponentially worse than the usual crowd, to my mind, as he is truly preying upon the hopes and ideals of a public that is vastly uninformed as to the political process.

You can apply these statements to any politician. Can you not? Ron paul is certainly no different here. Personally I'd like to see the federal reserve done away with...but how? And I for sure agree about most Americans having little understanding of how our government works. Hell I'm not sure the politicians fully understand it either!

Oh, most definitely...but that's my point, or a major part of it. Ron Paul is no different, contrary to what the people who say he is vastly different or our potential savior claim. I too dislike the Fed and am left grappling with the how as well. That's part of why I feel violent revolt will eventually be the only option for true change...too many entrenched structures that can't be otherwise abolished.