Experiences with daily harmala dosing + cannabis

[harmala_afficianado]

Anyone ever smoked weed while taking harmalas daily for a while? How would you describe the effect compared to cannabis alone and cannabis+acute harmala dose (no tolerance)?

Ive been taking heavy doses of rue seeds for months now, and a few days ago i picked up some cannabis after stopping them for years, its very interesting and chronic harmala dosing def changed the high significantly, im willing to share more but i would like to hear about people who tried it and how they would describe it.

 

[universecannon]

Yeah, but as usual it's difficult to tease apart just what caused what in regards to the changes experienced over time for me (since I was eating mostly raw plants and taking tons of melatonin back then etc.), but generally speaking cannabis just got more harmala-esque and psychedelic in a way, moreso than it already was.

Even sober nights seemed more harmala-esque, down to the stutter vision effect, ease of access to/depth of hypnagogic states and so on. I wonder if this is partly due to the fact that MAO-A inhibitors seem to increase melatonin levels (and potentially downstream pinoline levels and whatever other weird beta carbolines in there)

Neuropharmacology of pineal secretions - PubMed

A connection between pineal function and several psychiatric diseases has been shown recently. The diurnal and seasonal rhythmicity of melatonin production is associated with affective disorders and several types of endogenous depression. The cortisolmelatonin ratio was significantly higher in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Regulation of rat pineal melatonin synthesis: effect of monoamine oxidase inhibition - PubMed

Inhibition of pineal monoamine oxidase (MAO) activity either by harmine or pargyline in adult male Sprague-Dawley rats housed in a 12 : 12 LD cycle resulted in increase pineal N-acetyltransferase (NAT) activity. Pineal MAO inhibition also increased pineal melatonin content, presumably as a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[harmala_afficianado]

Yeah, but as usual it's difficult to tease apart just what caused what in regards to the changes experienced over time for me (since I was eating mostly raw plants and taking tons of melatonin back then etc.), but generally speaking cannabis just got more harmala-esque and psychedelic in a way, moreso than it already was.

Even sober nights seemed more harmala-esque, down to the stutter vision effect, ease of access to/depth of hypnagogic states and so on. I wonder if this is partly due to the fact that MAO-A inhibitors seem to increase melatonin levels (and potentially downstream pinoline levels and whatever other weird beta carbolines in there)

Neuropharmacology of pineal secretions - PubMed

A connection between pineal function and several psychiatric diseases has been shown recently. The diurnal and seasonal rhythmicity of melatonin production is associated with affective disorders and several types of endogenous depression. The cortisolmelatonin ratio was significantly higher in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Regulation of rat pineal melatonin synthesis: effect of monoamine oxidase inhibition - PubMed

Inhibition of pineal monoamine oxidase (MAO) activity either by harmine or pargyline in adult male Sprague-Dawley rats housed in a 12 : 12 LD cycle resulted in increase pineal N-acetyltransferase (NAT) activity. Pineal MAO inhibition also increased pineal melatonin content, presumably as a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ive been smoking for 3 days now, and weirdly enough it seems like cannabis has a reverse tolerance effect, the high becomes more spiritual and deep each day, its like the cannabis is taking sometime to get to know harmalas, the first day it seemed like they were on a diff path, but today it feels like they are agreeing with each other more, but i still dont have enough experience to accurately describe it.

How long did you smoke? And how long were you taking the harmalas before starting to smoke? If you can describe it abit more id be very thankful, i dont want the cannabis to turn on me like it did years ago... it does so in a very sneaky way.

 

[universecannon]

This was around 15 years ago, so I don't remember all the details. I would sometimes smoke every day, sometimes twice a month.

I still have difficult experiences with cannabis at times, I always have, but it's incredibly useful to so. For me it is just something I learned to deal with, not totally avoid. Smoking small amounts at first and easing into it seems to help a lot.

 

[harmala_afficianado]

This was around 15 years ago, so I don't remember all the details. I would sometimes smoke every day, sometimes twice a month.

I still have difficult experiences with cannabis at times, I always have, but it's incredibly useful to so. For me it is just something I learned to deal with, not totally avoid. Smoking small amounts at first and easing into it seems to help a lot.

Ive smoked quite a big amount the past few days for someone with no tolerance, and its been sending me deep into the harmala space, the past 2 days ive been feeling like the harmala entity is telling me not to smoke again, kept having visions of fingers pointing out "no" with a very serious warning tone, not really sure where to go from here.

But i feel like after the cannabis high wears off i feel very good like its healing me on a deaper level, yet the moment i smoke i keep telling myself this is the last time because it gets way too strong, not sure what to do, cannabis worries me because it does have immense healing effects yet it has a slight trickster vibe to it

 

[somanaut]

not really sure where to go from here

sounds like the message is actually quite clear. why do you feel your heart is closed to receiving the message? cannabis is scratching a particular itch that's now causing your mind to rationalize its use. perhaps that's exactly what harmala is warning you about

 

[harmala_afficianado]

sounds like the message is actually quite clear. why do you feel your heart is closed to receiving the message? cannabis is scratching a particular itch that's now causing your mind to rationalize its use. perhaps that's exactly what harmala is warning you about

Well, the main reason was that after a while of heavy harmala use, it started to make me abit irritable, not rude, but abit too analytical and "straightforward", like i had soo much energy flowing in my body i didnt know what to do with it, i would literally exercise the whole day and still feel energetic, first time i smoked cannabis it balanced that excessive energy and made me feel more relaxed while simultaneously expanding my mind, so i thought it would be a good companion with harmala.


Do you think cannabis's personality "agrees" with harmalas? Or do you think they both different? What do you think about cannabis in general compared to psychedelics and harmala? Maybe i just smoked abit too much?

 

[Prima Materia]

In my experience harmala does not agree with cannabis well. If you're getting the sensations of cannabis being too much you should quit. I've recently quit cannabis again as I felt the THC is giving pure dopamin rush and no real benefit. I don't think it's much different to hitting oneself with cocaine lines in the nose to be honest.

Maybe stop the harmala for a period of time as well.

 

[northape]

Harmalas function as an amplifier and can boost the effects of any substance. If you are a caffeine user, your extra energy may come from that synergy.
Cannabis is a wonderful plant and may be combined with harmalas for a deep experience, but using it daily is a misuse, imo.
Harmalas tend to remove any obstruction to their proper function, whether it is other substances or habits

 

[Panpsychic]

i dont want the cannabis to turn on me like it did years ago... it does so in a very sneaky way.

Ive smoked quite a big amount the past few days for someone with no tolerance, and its been sending me deep into the harmala space, the past 2 days ive been feeling like the harmala entity is telling me not to smoke again, kept having visions of fingers pointing out "no" with a very serious warning tone, not really sure where to go from here.

Read the warning signs...ignore at your peril!

Cannabis doesn't go with Harmalas in my view. Cannabis is not an enlightening drug, at least not in the way it is commonly used which is stoners smoking daily. Perhaps if it was ingested once every few months ritually it could be useful for some.

It also has a very clear and consistent link with potential for severe psychosis and paranoid delusions which can occur with chronic use. This is in stark contrast with psychedelics which, although can lead to delusional interpretations on occasion do not have any established correlation with psychosis, even with long term over use.

You have touched a bad place before with cannabis and you got burned...why you want to play with fire again is on you.

If you really want to scratch the smoking itch, I actually recommend Harmala Hash.
It is made by boiling down rue tea until it turns into a sticky squidgy resin. This can then be rolled with tobacco and smoked as a Harmala hash joint and you will get a distinct high. It smokes very smooth and well.

I have abandoned the cannabis use personally for many years now and for me there is no need or place for it at all, especially if on the path of clarity of consciousness and meditative development.

 

[Transform]

Right, since I took up regular harmala use I've had practically zero interest in cannabis. Sometimes I think about it and never get around to it - kind of the inverse of the effect that cannabis itself would have on me

I'll second the comment on delusions too. Even some CBD seems to send me off the rails mentally if taken regularly, although some brands might have higher amounts of other cannabinoids than others.

 

[harmala_afficianado]

In my experience harmala does not agree with cannabis well. If you're getting the sensations of cannabis being too much you should quit. I've recently quit cannabis again as I felt the THC is giving pure dopamin rush and no real benefit. I don't think it's much different to hitting oneself with cocaine lines in the nose to be honest.

Maybe stop the harmala for a period of time as well.

Hmm... i feel like if your smoking pure thc or very high thc cannabis with minimum cbd and other cannabinoids, then yes you can call it that, but i feel like just taking 2-3 hits from good balanced buds is very beneficial, thats what ive been doing the past 2 days, only 2-3 hits max.

In my mind theres a particular side effect from harmala use i cant fully describe but its like a slightly heartless feeling, i do feel emotions strongly, but its like "i" myself im not interested in pretty much anything other than help other people "ascend", ive thought about a prolonged break but, i had realllyyy tough time getting used to 6g+ rue seeds, snd the benefits are miraculous, so im not willing to risk it, and i had a thought that cannabis will perhaps lower my tolerance to harmalas or reduce that particular side effect and make me have that "novel" feeling of life again, which it indeed did.

 

[harmala_afficianado]

Harmalas function as an amplifier and can boost the effects of any substance. If you are a caffeine user, your extra energy may come from that synergy.
Cannabis is a wonderful plant and may be combined with harmalas for a deep experience, but using it daily is a misuse, imo.
Harmalas tend to remove any obstruction to their proper function, whether it is other substances or habits

Ive been taking only 2-3 hits the past 2 days and i feel like its really beneficial, harmalas the day after would hit me harder and also better, and also it kinda softened my heart, after high doses of rue for months i feel like i became slightly rough hearted, not rude or bad, just too logical with people and less emotional, like way too much, i see it as a good thing but i miss that soft hearted feeling

 

[Transform]

There's this thing that Dale Pendell (author of the rather wonderful Pharmako:- trilogy of poetic herbologies) referred to as "Ground State Training": essentially, when working with herbs it's useful to stop taking anything at all now and then just to check in on what's doing what. I'd vouch for the value of this approach in terms of my personal experience…

 

[universecannon]

after high doses of rue for months i feel like i became slightly rough hearted, not rude or bad, just too logical with people and less emotional, like way too much,

I think I remember someone else reporting this, and even outlining the potential pharmacology behind why that could be, but it was over 10yrs ago so i forget the details. I had a brief period where I noticed something like that but I didn't connect it to rue till later. Still not sure what that was about.

In re to the other topics, I actually found harmalas to greatly ground the more delusional aspects of cannabis and loved the combo since it finally helped me explore the psychedelic parts of both while totally relaxed. But my response to cannabis is very atypical so I might be an outlier. Similarly, some seem vastly more prone to delusions on some psychedelics vs other psychedelics. For me it was never a feature of any harmala/aya related experiences, even when combined with cannabis. It manifests much more readily with the classic psychedelics for me, especially if combined with weed. For some the opposite seems to be the case.